Wells Conclusion: Guilty

[erod]

They will not suspend Bill. He would have to be caught red handed on video before they would suspend him...and even then they would probably not suspend him.

They will probably get a fine and might lose a 7th round comp pick or something.

Goodell specifically said about Payton, "Ignorance is not an excuse."

Precedent established. This Goodell-Kraft-Mara background relationship deserves closer scrutiny, and I hope Payton goes unhinged if a different standard is applied to Belichick than was applied to him.

 

[Rogah]

The fact that there was no cap in place makes it impossible to violate the cap, doesn't it?

They weren't punished for violating the cap. All 32 teams were specifically told "if you front load contracts in 2010, we will treat that front loaded amount as if it was a signing bonus and make it impact the cap in subsequent years."

Then that's exactly what happened, albeit in a roundabout way.

 

[Rogah]

And you can be sure the Players Union will be hammering that home in the next CBA.

No they won't. They did their typical "file a grievance" maneuver but if you think this is even remotely going to be a major issue in the next CBA In 2020, you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Not one single player in the year 2020 is going to care about the Cowboys and Commanders losing cap space in 2011.

 

[LandryFan]

I can't imagine Brady told them to send each other texts which say "f*** Tom."

Are you serious? Buddy, you will stop at nothing to deflect from the real point on some things. Let me rephrase the part you're having trouble with...Brady being an a** hole brought them to say (IN PRIVATE BETWEEN THEM) f*** Tom. The f*** Tom part of it has nothing to do with nothing except for hurting your feelings that someone could possibly say that about your QB. Just continue on with your "Baghdad Bob" act.

 

[Rogah]

Are you serious?

You should ask yourself the same question.

But ya... Sure.... They should fire Tom Brady, but let these 2 unprofessional minimum wage dip****s keep their jobs.

 

[Longboysfan]

Are you incapable of having a conversation without resorting to the hackneyed "You're a Patriots fan" fall back?

Yes, I understand the Patriots have cheated. But that doesn't mean Belichick knew Brady was cheating. Players try to get a competitive advantage all the time. And like Mike Golic and a few other athletes have said, guys don't go up to the coach and say, "Hey, coach, we're thinking about spraying our jerseys with cooking oil, what do you think?"

They just do it.

There is absolutely NO evidence that Belichick knew this was going on. There isn't even any probability that he knew.

But there is probability (and I would say HIGH probability) that Brady knew.

You're missing the part where the buck stops here.
You did not reply on what you thought about if there was a meeting between Billy boy and Brady on the paper written.
I do not think that expression is hackneyed as it's the first time it has been used in this topic or anywhere on the board.
You have not answered the question one.
You have muddied the water two - hmmmm.... Like Kraft did with his reply.
Thank you for the admission that you think the Patriots cheated.
In this case there are 5 people responsible for this.
The two equipment guys, Brady, Billy Boy and Kraft.
In real life if this happened in business they would all be dismissed.
But this is the NFL not real life. So the NFL will ban those two equipment guys.
And tell the Patriots ....' Oh don't do that anymore."
What I think should happen.
Ban the two equipment guys for life from any NFL activities and or contact / employemnt with NFL teams.
Suspend Brady for a year.
Fine the Patriots 31 million for 2 years on their CAP. Give that CAP money to every other team.
Take their next three years draft picks - 1, 2, 3 away.
Fine Kraft 31 million dollars.
You are right the report shows that Belichick knew nothing but the coach and owner are responsible for everything that happens on the team.

 

[Longboysfan]

And while I think you are one of the best posters on this forum and a lot others.
I think you are wrong on this one.

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

What is a cheater?

A workable definition is someone that will do anything for an advantage. Make up stuff - ignore other stuff.

Some of the most vitriolic Patriot detractors do just that on their posts - they break the rules of common discussion.



The morality of the members taking a stand against cheating is underwhelming - I saw a thread here recently: "Single wanting to see Married Woman" If you have been here recently, you know which thread.

Then there are other threads urging the Cowboys to sign/reinstate players that have hurt or killed others. It's happened so often this appeared in The Onion > http://www.theonion.com/article/dallas-cowboys-honored-for-helping-reintegrate-cri-38303

My issue with this hate is not if the Patriots have broken rules, but why no screaming at teams that have done worse (plenty), or rage as if this is a divisional rival?

This is not like steroids abuse, or even the 1919 Black Sox Scandal. Seriously, the Patriots success the past 15 years is simply systematic cheating? If he was on the market there would not be a B-line to hire Belichick or Brady? I definitely remember members (not me or Rogah) wishing they were here instead of Garrett or Romo.

In the 103 days Ted Wells investigated the Patriots, don't you think he could have talked to people all over the league and come up with a list of dozens of cheating incidents? Why not? Come on - some of you have sworn it's so. Why didn't Wells come up with the goods? Yeah, some of you will weasel out of this one with the NFL is corrupt....some of you have said Hardy got suspended so long because Mara has bought Goodell....the owner of the team that beat the Patriots twice the last five years. Denial is the stiffest drink of all.

I get being a fan of the Cowboys or any other team win or lose, but cheating with the facts?

Steelers used steroids, Broncos, Commanders, and Cowboys broke the salary cap in ways more seriously than deflating footballs. Johnson knew some of his players were using drugs at some of the parties and took a blind eye. I know - I know....dismiss these facts because you don't like them. Then make up whatever you want.

Faux outrage, faux outrage. Go with faux outrage.
Faux outrage? Blaming the Patriots being caught red-handed cheating on the people who think it matters and pointing out other, non comparable incidents from decades ago seems like a silly response.

Steve: Need an answer.

We're going to go with faux outrage.

Steve: We asked a hundred people what the appropriate response to the Wells report was

Survey says "faux outrage"?

Ding 1.

Holy nuts BBTOTB was a part of the survey.

 

[Rogah]

You're missing the part where the buck stops here.
You did not reply on what you thought about if there was a meeting between Billy boy and Brady on the paper written.
I do not think that expression is hackneyed as it's the first time it has been used in this topic or anywhere on the board.
You have not answered the question one.
You have muddied the water two - hmmmm.... Like Kraft did with his reply.
Thank you for the admission that you think the Patriots cheated.
In this case there are 5 people responsible for this.
The two equipment guys, Brady, Billy Boy and Kraft.
In real life if this happened in business they would all be dismissed.
But this is the NFL not real life. So the NFL will ban those two equipment guys.
And tell the Patriots ....' Oh don't do that anymore."
What I think should happen.
Ban the two equipment guys for life from any NFL activities and or contact / employemnt with NFL teams.
Suspend Brady for a year.
Fine the Patriots 31 million for 2 years on their CAP. Give that CAP money to every other team.
Take their next three years draft picks - 1, 2, 3 away.
Fine Kraft 31 million dollars.
You are right the report shows that Belichick knew nothing but the coach and owner are responsible for everything that happens on the team.

Do you realize the recommended guideline for this infraction is a $25,000 fine? Pretty tough to go from $25k to $31 million and 9 draft picks.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Can't say I'm buying that one.

Well, of course not since this whole thing is similar to a traffic ticket like going 75 in a 65.

 

[LandryFan]

He won't get more than 2 games because the "crime" does not merit more than 2 games.Those guys behaved in a very unprofessional manner. If I wrote "f*** Tom" where Tom was a colleague or boss of mine, and joked about deliberately sabotaging his work, I'd expect to be fired too.

Their opinion of Brady and what they say about him IN PRIVATE, BETWEEN THEMSELVES has nothing to do with professionalism. They did not put that out there for public consumption. You're basically saying they have no right to have (and communicate privately between the two of them) a negative opinion of Brady. Keep trying to deflect from the real issue though. This is not about two buddies saying f*** Tom, it's about Brady directing/pressuring them to do something illegal which leads to an investigation in which it is revealed that one of them said that to the other. If anything, the "f*** Tom" comment is damning to Brady, himself...the guy wouldn't have said that without cause.

 

[Longboysfan]

Do you realize the recommended guideline for this infraction is a $25,000 fine? Pretty tough to go from $25k to $31 million and 9 draft picks.

It's part of a pattern of cheating.
The Partiots also said full access but denied access when asked by the Wells group for follow up on the two equipment guys and Brady.
Brady also denied them access to phone and text information.
Even after the Wells group said lawyer could edit it.
Kraft is responsible for that.
What I am sayis is that you have to make it so bad that no one will ever think of doing that again.
NFL will also have to alter how their pre game process works.

 

[tyke1doe]

You're missing the part where the buck stops here.
You did not reply on what you thought about if there was a meeting between Billy boy and Brady on the paper written.
I do not think that expression is hackneyed as it's the first time it has been used in this topic or anywhere on the board.
You have not answered the question one.
You have muddied the water two - hmmmm.... Like Kraft did with his reply.
Thank you for the admission that you think the Patriots cheated.
In this case there are 5 people responsible for this.
The two equipment guys, Brady, Billy Boy and Kraft.
In real life if this happened in business they would all be dismissed.
But this is the NFL not real life. So the NFL will ban those two equipment guys.
And tell the Patriots ....' Oh don't do that anymore."
What I think should happen.
Ban the two equipment guys for life from any NFL activities and or contact / employemnt with NFL teams.
Suspend Brady for a year.
Fine the Patriots 31 million for 2 years on their CAP. Give that CAP money to every other team.
Take their next three years draft picks - 1, 2, 3 away.
Fine Kraft 31 million dollars.
You are right the report shows that Belichick knew nothing but the coach and owner are responsible for everything that happens on the team.

First, I don't know what you're talking about as it relates to a paper.

Second, you must have missed my comment earlier that regardless of whether Belichick and Kraft knew or didn't know, the Patriots as an organization are still responsible. That's what the NFL said with respect to the New Orleans Saints when it suspended Sean Payton, who says he didn't know anything about a bounty. So the same applies to the Patriots.

BTW, this is what I said in post #204 on Page 11:

the latter.You have to punish the organization. Otherwise, you make a mockery out of the punishment the New Orleans Saints received.

And, personally, I think Brady should be suspended for at least two games. I don't know whether that's possible under the rules, but if you want to put the kibosh on this stuff, start suspending players, including your major stars.

 

[LandryFan]

You should ask yourself the same question.

But ya... Sure.... They should fire Tom Brady, but let these 2 unprofessional minimum wage dip****s keep their jobs.

No, what I said is that "If anybody were to get fired it should be Brady". After all, he's the cause of all of this. Obviously, Brady won't get fired (outside of a game or two), and neither should the two poor schmucks who hurt your feelings by saying something disparaging about your cheating QB.

 

[LandryFan]

No they won't. They did their typical "file a grievance" maneuver but if you think this is even remotely going to be a major issue in the next CBA In 2020, you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Not one single player in the year 2020 is going to care about the Cowboys and Commanders losing cap space in 2011.

We'll agree to disagree on this, then. I smell big trouble down the road for the NFL on this. I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Doomsay]

Do you realize the recommended guideline for this infraction is a $25,000 fine? Pretty tough to go from $25k to $31 million and 9 draft picks.

lying about it could cost one a season, ask Sean Payton. It's always the cover ups and denials that doom white collar criminals, who's actual crimes are often harder to prove.

 

[Longboysfan]

First, I don't know what you're talking about as it relates to a paper.

Second, you must have missed my comment earlier that regardless of whether Belichick and Kraft knew or didn't know, the Patriots as an organization are still responsible. That's what the NFL said with respect to the New Orleans Saints when it suspended Sean Payton, who says he didn't know anything about a bounty. So the same applies to the Patriots.

No sorry missed it somewhere in all the replies.

 

[tyke1doe]

No sorry missed it somewhere in all the replies.

This thread got merged with another thread. So it was easy to miss, especially in such a long thread as this. You good.

 

[tyke1doe]

lying about it could cost one a season, ask Sean Payton. It's always the cover ups and denials that doom white collar criminals, who's actual crimes are often harder to prove.

I know it's different leagues, but ask Dez. He lied about meeting with Deion, and it cost him his final season of college. But the blessing in all that is that he's a Cowboy, and I don't think he is if that didn't happen.

 

[Rogah]

Their opinion of Brady and what they say about him IN PRIVATE, BETWEEN THEMSELVES has nothing to do with professionalism.

What color is the sky on your world? Saying "f*** Tom" and talking about sabotaging the guy's work speaks 100% to professionalism.

You seem to be woefully unaware that these were team issued cell phones. Any conversation about your job and the performance of your job and your opinions about your colleagues taking place on a team issued cell phone is fair game to be used in determining whether or not you keep that job.

You have absolutely ZERO expectation to privacy when you are discussing your job, your duties and your colleagues on equipment provided by your employer.