Wells Conclusion: Guilty

DogFace

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He won't get more than 2 games because the "crime" does not merit more than 2 games.Those guys behaved in a very unprofessional manner. If I wrote "f*** Tom" where Tom was a colleague or boss of mine, and joked about deliberately sabotaging his work, I'd expect to be fired too.

You're making me sick to my stomach. I don't know the background story here. Are you a fan of the Patriots or Brady ? Why are you on this site? Just wondering.

You're so completely wrong about the importance of whatever psi they were cheating by is. Besides the fact that cheating is against the rules. A few psi is very key to a pro and especially in bad weather.

They are also repeat offenders. Known cheaters caught twice. Who knows what other areas they cheat on. Their reputation is tainted and expecting the worst in them is expected.
 

cowboyeric8

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Brady will be disciplined by the league for his actions. Beyond that, I am not sure what unprofessionalism you are referring to.

Deflect deflect deflect. All of a sudden Brady is the victim. Give it up already.
 

Rogah

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You're making me sick to my stomach. I don't know the background story here. Are you a fan of the Patriots or Brady ? Why are you on this site? Just wondering.

You're so completely wrong about the importance of whatever psi they were cheating by is. Besides the fact that cheating is against the rules. A few psi is very key to a pro and especially in bad weather.
Yeah, this issue is so important that:

- The recommended penalty guideline for violating this rule is a $25,000 fine
- The league let the teams play 30 minutes of the AFCCG with balls suspected to have been deflated
- The V.P.'s at the league office that got the original complaint didn't bother to, you know, actually tell the commissioner about any of this
 

MichaelValentino

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Rogah has taken a lot of heat for defending the Patriots' position in previous threads but I think he should be commended for being the OP on this thread and for being willing to start a discussion on the Wells Report, the findings of which I gather may not have been what he had hoped for or expected.

I've given the report a very cursory review and also quickly skimmed through Appendix I, which is the Exponent technical report. As time allows I'd like to give the Exponent report a more closer read.

Link to the 243-page report: https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/investigative-and-expert-reports-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh.pdf

Earlier in the year I posted on two related threads (Let's Ponder The Deflategate Issue and So Now, Robert Kraft Thinks His Team Will Be Owed An Apology?) and I believed then that if Mortensen's findings were accurate, the drop in pressure of the Patriots' footballs could not be accounted for by weather conditions alone (I qualified my comments back then with uncertainty as to the accuracy of Mortensen's initial report). It now looks like Exponent's findings confirm my calculations and conclusions.

I was glad to see that Exponent's controlled simulations were more representative of game-time conditions than the experiments conducted by Tom Healey of Carnegie-Mellon (whose experiment I critiqued in one of the above mentioned threads). In fact, Exponent simulated game conditions for ball wetness and exposure time in line with my criticisms of the Healey experiment. I felt vindicated in seeing that.

I also felt vindicated in reading Exponent's report because I had also critiqued the Patriots' argument that by vigorously rubbing the balls as part of their pre-game ball prep the pressure inside the balls would have risen. I said that such rise in pressure would be short-lived as the rise in temperature of the football skin/bladder and inside air would begin to drop off and equilibrate to ambient conditions once the ball boys ceased rubbing the balls. Exponent confirmed this too.

While it appears I spent more time running calculations with real time data (inside the locker room, at the start of the game, at halftime) plugged into the Ideal Gas Law than did Exponent, their statistical analysis and attempt to simulate real-time conditions seems to make their report findings irrefutable. In my short time looking at the report I see no flaws, unlike the Healey experiment which some in the media looked to in defense of the Patriots.

I don't know where this will lead or what a fair penalty would be, but it does finally seem clear after nearly four months that something was deliberately done to NE's game balls that was not done to Indy's.
 

LandryFan

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Is a certain member seriously trying to get everyone to turn against two equipment guys, instead of the cheating ******* who was in charge of them and telling them how he likes his balls? My word some Pats fans will stoop to whatever lengths just exonerate Tom. Unbelievable.

It's called "diversionary tactics"...deflect from the real question by throwing out some superficial BS to divert your attention from the core of the matter.
 

WPBCowboysFan

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Is a certain member seriously trying to get everyone to turn against two equipment guys, instead of the cheating ******* who was in charge of them and telling them how he likes his balls? My word some Pats fans will stoop to whatever lengths just exonerate Tom. Unbelievable.

His efforts of futility in defending cheaters has been going for months. He wants the Vikings thrown out of the NFL for sitting a ball in front of a heater on the sideline. He wants the Falcons to lose numerous draft picks for what amounts to some kid playing his boom box too loud. Yet a team that has been known to push the envelope on everything and has been caught cheating once again to be exonerated for something he says is minor like a traffic ticket.
 

cowboyeric8

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What part of "Brady will be disciplined by the league for his actions" are you not understanding?

How is he less professional than the ball boys? Should Tom not lose his job too? It's really getting embarrassing. What about the whole lying through his teeth about everything part do you not understand? Brady lied to everyone, and needs to suffer huge consequences, but won't because it's Brady and the Patriots. This league is really starting to suck.
 

WPBCowboysFan

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Rogah has taken a lot of heat for defending the Patriots' position in previous threads but I think he should be commended for being the OP on this thread and for being willing to start a discussion on the Wells Report,

:facepalm::lmao2::lmao2::lmao2::lmao2::lmao2::lmao2:

Commended? After months of bashing everybody that spoke the truth while saying he couldnt wait to gloat and rub the Pats "innocence" in everybody's face? And then when the heat comes after months of people listening to his nonsense he cant take the heat and cries to the ruling authorities that he is being attacked?

So what you're saying is he should be commended for months of nonsense and agitating and then not being able to handle the heat from being 100% wrong?

Hey man, whatever you've been smoking or drinking must be some good stuff. Care to share some with the rest of us?
 

MichaelValentino

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:facepalm::lmao2::lmao2::lmao2::lmao2::lmao2::lmao2:

Commended? After months of bashing everybody that spoke the truth while saying he couldnt wait to gloat and rub the Pats "innocence" in everybody's face? And then when the heat comes after months of people listening to his nonsense he cant take the heat and cries to the ruling authorities that he is being attacked?

So what you're saying is he should be commended for months of nonsense and agitating and then not being able to handle the heat from being 100% wrong?

Hey man, whatever you've been smoking or drinking must be some good stuff. Care to share some with the rest of us?

What I meant is he had to know he'd take heat for starting a thread linking a report that in no way is friendly to the Patriots. I think that shows that he was/is willing to let the findings speak for themselves even if they go against what he argued for. To me, that takes some guts. I realize there were heated discussions going back and forth. I read just a fraction of the comments because there were so many. I got involved back in January with the Deflategate issue because the technical arguments intrigued me and that's where I weighed in. I didn't take/am not taking sides then/now - just looking at the data and findings. (All I had this morning was coffee) :)
 

Rogah

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His efforts of futility in defending cheaters has been going for months. He wants the Vikings thrown out of the NFL for sitting a ball in front of a heater on the sideline. He wants the Falcons to lose numerous draft picks for what amounts to some kid playing his boom box too loud. Yet a team that has been known to push the envelope on everything and has been caught cheating once again to be exonerated for something he says is minor like a traffic ticket.
I am taking some shots as deserved, but I am not going to let someone tell outright LIES about my positions.

I have never advocated any punishment for the Vikings stricter than the one they got (which was a letter of warning). All I have done is used that as the basis for proving how unimportant the whole issue of tampering with footballs is.

I have also never advocated any punishment for the Falcons stricter than the one they got. I don't think what they did was a big deal, and I don't think they deserved anything worse than what they got.

The fact that you have to completely lie about things I have said is pretty pathetic.
 

WPBCowboysFan

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What I meant is he had to know he'd take heat for starting a thread linking a report that in no way is friendly to the Patriots. I think that shows that he was/is willing to let the findings speak for themselves even if they go against what he argued for. To me, that takes some guts. I realize there were heated discussions going back and forth. I read just a fraction of the comments because there were so many. I got involved back in January with the Deflategate issue because the technical arguments intrigued me and that's where I weighed in. I didn't take/am not taking sides then/now - just looking at the data and findings. (All I had this morning was coffee) :)

The OP was a token, or a facade of being upfront. Just look at what he's been saying in the thread comparing the cheating to a traffic ticket.
 

Rogah

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It's called "diversionary tactics"...deflect from the real question by throwing out some superficial BS to divert your attention from the core of the matter.
What is it about "the core of the matter" do you feel needs to be discussed that we haven't covered in this 23-page thread? If there is some point you want to discuss, feel free to bring it up.
 

BotchedLobotomy

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Say what you want about the deflating of the balls and whether you think it's a big deal or not, where the Pats and Brady will and should get punished for is for not fully cooperating with the NFL investigation.

The report specifically states that the Patriots denied access to McNally when the NFL asked for followup interviews with him. Secondly, Brady denied access to his cell phone records. Despite what anyone perceives the severity of deflating balls is, not fully cooperating with the NFL on ANY type investigation is a big deal and should be punished accordingly.

A slap on the wrist for deflating balls, sure why not. A slap on the wrist for not cooperating with the NFL in it's investigation? That needs a harsh punishment in my opinion.
 

big dog cowboy

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Just spoke to my brother (a Stealer fan) and all he cares about is that Brady gets suspended for 1 game. Grrrrrrrr.
 

erod

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WPBCowboysFan

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The fact that you have to completely lie about things I have said is pretty pathetic.

Oh, so if I exaggerate to make a point its a complete lie, but when you've done it, its justified? I just want to be clear. Im guessing your standard for me is just a tad different than the one you have for yourself., but I could be wrong. I guess if you try enuff eventually one of your claims that Im wrong will actually be true.
 

Rogah

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The report specifically states that the Patriots denied access to McNally when the NFL asked for followup interviews with him.
It is not accurate to say the Patriots denied access to McNally when asked for followup interviews. Wells had 4 interviews with McNally and was denied a 5th.
 

LandryFan

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What is it about "the core of the matter" do you feel needs to be discussed that we haven't covered in this 23-page thread? If there is some point you want to discuss, feel free to bring it up.

Well, the "unprofessionalism" on the part of the two equipment guys seems to be much more important in your eyes than Brady's central role in all of this. You call the two equipment guys "unprofessional", yet refuse to address Brady's professionalism in all of this. It is what it is.
 
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