Wells Conclusion: Guilty

[Rogah]

The difference is that with gambling you really put into the question the integrity of your team trying to win the game. The Dowd Report could never confirm if Pete was betting against the Reds. Dowd believes that Rose did, but can't get sufficient evidence to do so. Also, Rose more or less got screwed out of the deal as the original agreement wasn't to have him out of baseball forever. But Bart Giamatti died...despised Rose...and Fay Vincent took over and held the grudge and took it to another level.

The cardinal rule of baseball states that if you bet on games within which you are participating in any shape (player, manager, etc) then you shall "be declared permanently ineligible." He was gambling on games he was taking part in and, as a consequence, was declared permanently ineligible.

How does getting the exact punishment you were told you would get if you did something constitute "getting screwed"?

 

[Rogah]

The DELUSION here is STRONG!

Whats IRONIC is you claim to accept the Wells Report yet continue to defend and play it off as no big deal. Just a speeding ticket basically.

The NFL Game Operations Manual recommends a fine of $25,000 for what they did. So ya, that kinda proves that this whole thing really is no big deal.

Vikings got caught illegally tampering with footballs and got a letter of warning. Patriots got caught illegally tampering with footballs and got a 4 month investigation and a 253 page report.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

The NFL Game Operations Manual recommends a fine of $25,000 for what they did. So ya, that kinda proves that this whole thing really is no big deal.

Vikings got caught illegally tampering with footballs and got a letter of warning. Patriots got caught illegally tampering with footballs and got a 4 month investigation and a 253 page report.

And what does the manual recommend for lying and hindering an investigation?

We'll see if this is really no big deal. 11 balls deflated X $25K = $275K, so anything greater than that means its a bigger deal than your admitting to. Im willing to bet your assessment will be WRONG AGAIN just like the Cheatriots innocence or the weather did it excuse you were pushing here for months.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

If people keep making the same statements,

 

[Rogah]

And what does the manual recommend for lying and hindering an investigation?

We'll see if this is really no big deal. 11 balls deflated X $25K = $275K, so anything greater than that means its a bigger deal than your admitting to. Im willing to bet your assessment will be WRONG AGAIN just like the Cheatriots innocence or the weather did it excuse you were pushing here for months.

Oh I don't believe for a second that Brady won't be suspended. Goodell has it out for the Patriots too much to let this all pass by with just a simple fine.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Oh I don't believe for a second that Brady won't be suspended. Goodell has it out for the Patriots too much to let this all pass by with just a simple fine.

Thats so ridiculous it isnt even funny. Goodell has it out for the Pats? Is that why a commish would hand out a slap on the wrist penalty for cheating and then destroy all the evidence so nobody can ever find out how bad they actually cheated?

 

[Rogah]

Thats so ridiculous it isnt even funny. Goodell has it out for the Pats?

Absolutely. If he didn't, then this whole thing would have been resolved by January 20 with a letter of warning - which is exactly what he did for the Vikings.

Is that why a commish would hand out a slap on the wrist penalty for cheating and then destroy all the evidence so nobody can ever find out how bad they actually cheated?

That's so ridiculous it isn't even funny. The fact that you consider loss of a 1st rounder - something that has only happened twice in league a history - a "slap on the wrist" shows you don't understand football.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Absolutely. If he didn't, then this whole thing would have been resolved by January 20 with a letter of warning - which is exactly what he did for the Vikings.

That's so ridiculous it isn't even funny. The fact that you consider loss of a 1st rounder - something that has only happened twice in league a history - a "slap on the wrist" shows you don't understand football.

I cant remember ever reading anything as ridiculous as this on any kind of internet forum on any topic. Your delusion is at an all time high level.

 

[BoysFan4ever]

Oh I don't believe for a second that Brady won't be suspended. Goodell has it out for the Patriots too much to let this all pass by with just a simple fine.

Rogah! It's May.

Enough with the delayed April Fool's jokes.

Humor isn't your strong suit..

 

[big dog cowboy]

Name calling and personal attacks must stop immediately.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

The cardinal rule of baseball states that if you bet on games within which you are participating in any shape (player, manager, etc) then you shall "be declared permanently ineligible." He was gambling on games he was taking part in and, as a consequence, was declared permanently ineligible.

How does getting the exact punishment you were told you would get if you did something constitute "getting screwed"?

Giamatti and Rose negotiated a deal before he was going to be suspended which supersedes the rule.




YR

 

[dogberry]

Random questions.

Did the NE coach or the NE QB run the football deflating scheme? Or did they run separate operations?

The QB's secret ring doesn't seem too complicated. Stick a needle in the football.

If this coach were running a secret ring to overcome fumbling running backs, wouldn't he have used a more complicated, physics based scheme?

Or the coach could have used the tried and true method. Fire the fumbler. With fear as a motivator to those not fired.

The Colts complained about the Patriot's footballs, why didn't the NFL check the footballs right before kickoff? The NFL just continued with business as usual, which the Colts contended had failed in an earlier game.

Did Dallas notice a problem with NE footballs in the two games we have played them since 2007?

What NFL wide changes will be implemented?

How long should Brady's suspension be to benefit us the most?

If NE were caught heating their footballs after the league warned the Vikings, what penalty should/would they get?

Would you give your passwords, telephone to your employer?

Would you treat the NFL's request for cooperation as you would a prosecutor's request in a criminal case? Tell them to prove it without any help from you.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

How long should Brady's suspension be to benefit us the most?

The best thing for the entire league and fans everywhere would be to give him a lifetime ban.

It would be good riddance . . . .

 

[Rogah]

Giamatti and Rose negotiated a deal before he was going to be suspended which supersedes the rule.

You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not, however, entitled to your own facts.

Here is a link to the actual agreement between Rose and Giamatti. I have quoted a few relevant parts (but certainly not the entire thing). The only deal they negotiated is Rose would be permanently banned, he could apply for reinstatement as per rule 15(c) but with absolutely no guarantee of being reinstated, and all other lawsuits would be dropped.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/p_rosea.shtml

Both Mr. Giamatti and Reuven Katz, Mr. Rose's lawyer, said they had made no deal about reinstatement. It is not automatic, the commissioner said; nor is it guaranteed. "The burden to show a redirected, reconfigured, rehabilitated life is entirely Pete Rose's," Mr. Giamatti said at the news conference at the New York Hilton. Mr. Rose said today that he would "never bet on any kind of sports again- team sports."THEREFORE, the Commissioner, recognizing the benefits to Baseball from a resolution of this matter, orders and directs that Peter Edward Rose be subject to the following disciplinary sanctions, and Peter Edward Rose, recognizing the sole and exclusive authority of the Commissioner and that it is in his interest to resolve this matter without further proceedings, agrees to accept the following disciplinary sanctions imposed by the Commissioner.

a. Peter Edward Rose is hereby declared permanently ineligible in accordance with Major League Rule 21 and placed on the Ineligible List.

b. Nothing in this Agreement shall deprive Peter Edward Rose of the rights under Major League Rule 15(c) to apply for reinstatement. Peter Edward Rose agrees not to challenge, appeal or otherwise contest the decision of, or the procedure employed by, the Commissioner or any future Commissioner in the evaluation of any application for reinstatement.

Also, here is a NY Times article where Rose's own lawyer admits there was no agreement for reinstatement:

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/sports/year_in_sports/08.24.html

Both Mr. Giamatti and Reuven Katz, Mr. Rose's lawyer, said they had made no deal about reinstatement. It is not automatic, the commissioner said; nor is it guaranteed. "The burden to show a redirected, reconfigured, rehabilitated life is entirely Pete Rose's," Mr. Giamatti said at the news conference at the New York Hilton. Mr. Rose said today that he would "never bet on any kind of sports again- team sports."

 

[Rogah]

Random questions.

Did the NE coach or the NE QB run the football deflating scheme? Or did they run separate operations?

This depends on whom you believe. The Wells Report concluded "we do not believe there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing by Patriots ownership, Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick or any other Patriots coach in the matters investigated."

The Colts complained about the Patriot's footballs, why didn't the NFL check the footballs right before kickoff?

That's an excellent question. What we have is the Colts issuing a complaint to the league prior to the AFCCG in an e-mail received by David Gardi and Mike Kensil. (Of course, to show how unimportant this whole thing is, those guys didn't bother to actually, you know, tell the commissioner of the NFL) So those guy told the refs and direct of game operations James Daniel and they also made sure the referees were made aware.

So then before kickoff the balls go missing. Wells says "It was the first time in Anderson‟s nineteen years as an NFL official that he could not locate the game balls at the start of a game."

So what do these geniuses do? They decide to go ahead and play the AFCCG with balls that are suspected to have been tampered with.

Did Dallas notice a problem with NE footballs in the two games we have played them since 2007?

Not that I have heard.

What NFL wide changes will be implemented?

Probably greater league control of balls pre-game.

How long should Brady's suspension be to benefit us the most?

4 - 7. That way he misses the Dallas game but is back for the rest of the NFC East games

If NE were caught heating their footballs after the league warned the Vikings, what penalty should/would they get?

Funny you ask, since these transgressions are literally identical in the eyes of the NFL.

I mean that too. If you read the NFL Game Operations Manual, you will see "heating balls" right next to "deflating balls" in the "things not to do to the balls" category, and they both have the suggested $25,000 fine.

Would you give your passwords, telephone to your employer?

To my private phone and computer? Not in a million years.

My personal rule is that I assume that any e-mail or text message I send using company equipment or company e-mail is something that could potentially be made public (or just generally seen by anyone I work with). I don't go to a single non-work related website on my work computer. I never check my regular e-mail on my work computer.

I bet those 2 ballboy dipsh**s wish they followed my own rules.

Would you treat the NFL's request for cooperation as you would a prosecutor's request in a criminal case?

Nope. I would cooperate with a prosector (assuming they had a warrant). Wells doesn't have subpoena power.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

This depends on whom you believe. The Wells Report concluded "we do not believe there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing by Patriots ownership, Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick or any other Patriots coach in the matters investigated."

That's an excellent question. What we have is the Colts issuing a complaint to the league prior to the AFCCG in an e-mail received by David Gardi and Mike Kensil. (Of course, to show how unimportant this whole thing is, those guys didn't bother to actually, you know, tell the commissioner of the NFL) So those guy told the refs and direct of game operations James Daniel and they also made sure the referees were made aware.

So then before kickoff the balls go missing. Wells says "It was the first time in Anderson‟s nineteen years as an NFL official that he could not locate the game balls at the start of a game."

So what do these geniuses do? They decide to go ahead and play the AFCCG with balls that are suspected to have been tampered with.
Not that I have heard.
Probably greater league control of balls pre-game.
4 - 7. That way he misses the Dallas game but is back for the rest of the NFC East games
Funny you ask, since these transgressions are literally identical in the eyes of the NFL.

I mean that too. If you read the NFL Game Operations Manual, you will see "heating balls" right next to "deflating balls" in the "things not to do to the balls" category, and they both have the suggested $25,000 fine.
To my private phone and computer? Not in a million years.

My personal rule is that I assume that any e-mail or text message I send using company equipment or company e-mail is something that could potentially be made public (or just generally seen by anyone I work with). I don't go to a single non-work related website on my work computer. I never check my regular e-mail on my work computer.

I bet those 2 ballboy dipsh**s wish they followed my own rules.
Nope. I would cooperate with a prosector (assuming they had a warrant). Wells doesn't have subpoena power.

So now you're going to talk about the injustice of the league in how things played out so the cheaters got caught for cheating. Victims, the cheaters are. Whats next? You'll compare it to a sting operation like Brady's lyin scumbag agent?

 

[Rogah]

So now you're going to talk about the injustice of the league in how things played out so the cheaters got caught for cheating. Victims, the cheaters are. Whats next? You'll compare it to a sting operation like Brady's lyin scumbag agent?

Well it kinda was a sting operation. The league got a complaint before the game, they had reason to suspect wrong doing when the balls disappeared, but they made the genius decision to let the 2 teams play 30 minutes of a conference championship game with those balls. If that ain't a sting operation then there's no such thing.

I tell ya this: If I was a Colts fan, I'd be pretty pissed.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Well it kinda was a sting operation. The league got a complaint before the game, they had reason to suspect wrong doing when the balls disappeared, but they made the genius decision to let the 2 teams play 30 minutes of a conference championship game with those balls. If that ain't a sting operation then there's no such thing.

I tell ya this: If I was a Colts fan, I'd be pretty pissed.

Calling this a sting operation by the NFL and crying foul is like a prostitute advertising her services and then when a cop shows up and she gets arrested saying it was entrapment.

You keep digging your hole deeper and bigger an doubling down on the nonsense.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not, however, entitled to your own facts.

Here is a link to the actual agreement between Rose and Giamatti. I have quoted a few relevant parts (but certainly not the entire thing). The only deal they negotiated is Rose would be permanently banned, he could apply for reinstatement as per rule 15(c) but with absolutely no guarantee of being reinstated, and all other lawsuits would be dropped.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/p_rosea.shtml

Both Mr. Giamatti and Reuven Katz, Mr. Rose's lawyer, said they had made no deal about reinstatement. It is not automatic, the commissioner said; nor is it guaranteed. "The burden to show a redirected, reconfigured, rehabilitated life is entirely Pete Rose's," Mr. Giamatti said at the news conference at the New York Hilton. Mr. Rose said today that he would "never bet on any kind of sports again- team sports."THEREFORE, the Commissioner, recognizing the benefits to Baseball from a resolution of this matter, orders and directs that Peter Edward Rose be subject to the following disciplinary sanctions, and Peter Edward Rose, recognizing the sole and exclusive authority of the Commissioner and that it is in his interest to resolve this matter without further proceedings, agrees to accept the following disciplinary sanctions imposed by the Commissioner.

a. Peter Edward Rose is hereby declared permanently ineligible in accordance with Major League Rule 21 and placed on the Ineligible List.

b. Nothing in this Agreement shall deprive Peter Edward Rose of the rights under Major League Rule 15(c) to apply for reinstatement. Peter Edward Rose agrees not to challenge, appeal or otherwise contest the decision of, or the procedure employed by, the Commissioner or any future Commissioner in the evaluation of any application for reinstatement.

Also, here is a NY Times article where Rose's own lawyer admits there was no agreement for reinstatement:

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/sports/year_in_sports/08.24.html

Both Mr. Giamatti and Reuven Katz, Mr. Rose's lawyer, said they had made no deal about reinstatement. It is not automatic, the commissioner said; nor is it guaranteed. "The burden to show a redirected, reconfigured, rehabilitated life is entirely Pete Rose's," Mr. Giamatti said at the news conference at the New York Hilton. Mr. Rose said today that he would "never bet on any kind of sports again- team sports."

Yes, here's an article pointing to more of an agreement made between Giammati and Rose:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...d-an-agreement-banning-him-from-baseball-hall

Giamatti was a compassionate man who would have eventually
met with him, laid out a lifestyle plan that Pete would follow,
and today he’d be a forgiven member of baseball’s family. Sounds
simple, and it could have been with the right people driving it,
led by Giamatti.

But...

Vincent was close to Giamatti and felt Pete’s case helped apply
immense stress and was a factor in his friend’s death. Vincent
subsequently upheld the ban with even more fervor


It was the worse kept secret in baseball that Giamatti had a gentleman's agreement with Rose that if he cleaned up his life and didn't bet anymore (there were also allegations of Pete hanging around steroid guys and people with ties to the mob) that in about a year they would reinstate him into baseball because it's hard to deny the all-time hits leader a role in the HoF. However, part of the gentleman's agreement was that Rose would not be managing a team. Giammati wanted Rose to clean up his life so it wouldn't look so awful for baseball (especially dealing with guys with questionable ties to the mob).

As far as those people with mob ties:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominick_Basso

So spare the 'you're entitled to your own opinion, but not your facts' because once again you just look to fit facts to your agenda, just like the Thomas Healy's and Drew Fustin's of the world.

It's easy to see what you're trying to accomplish...hoping that you can get something right about a subject not dealing with the subject at hand (Patriots cheating, again) to try and build some credibility. But as we can see, you know very little about Rose's situation. Not that it matters anyway because it doesn't stop the fact that Tom Brady cheated.




YR

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

It's easy to see what you're trying to accomplish...hoping that you can get something right about a subject not dealing with the subject at hand (Patriots cheating, again) to try and build some credibility.

Ha Ha, that ship has sailed bro. About 3 1/2 months ago.