What Is Wrong in Dallas WON'T get fixed

[khiladi]

So what happened to Felix Jones lining out wide? Oh, let be guess... Jason forgot about that...

 

[Don Corleone]

This thread is overreaction at its finest. So when the Steelers win stinkers against divisional foes, they are applauded for pulling out a gutsy game. Why aren't the Cowboys in the same context. Ravens back in the day? The same thing. Hell, they went 6 games without scoring an offensive TD and still marched on to win a Super Bowl.

These types of games are part of a normal season. Even the Colts have had squeakers this year. The coaching staff gets paid a lot of money to find solutions, and I have confidence that they will. It may not happen right away, but I have a feeling that they will take the 10 day layoff after T-day to adjust the offense accordingly.

 

[khiladi]

This thread is overreaction at its finest. So when the Steelers win stinkers against divisional foes, they are applauded for pulling out a gutsy game. Why aren't the Cowboys in the same context. Ravens back in the day? The same thing. Hell, they went 6 games without scoring an offensive TD and still marched on to win a Super Bowl.

These types of games are part of a normal season. Even the Colts have had squeakers this year. The coaching staff gets paid a lot of money to find solutions, and I have confidence that they will. It may not happen right away, but I have a feeling that they will take the 10 day layoff after T-day to adjust the offense accordingly.

Because the Stelers won the Super Bowl last year and don't lay stinkers in December as a trend... The Cowboys are showing a trend, while these guys are proven winners and don't exhibit this trend...

 

[Rampage]

This thread is overreaction at its finest. So when the Steelers win stinkers against divisional foes, they are applauded for pulling out a gutsy game. Why aren't the Cowboys in the same context. Ravens back in the day? The same thing. Hell, they went 6 games without scoring an offensive TD and still marched on to win a Super Bowl.

These types of games are part of a normal season. Even the Colts have had squeakers this year. The coaching staff gets paid a lot of money to find solutions, and I have confidence that they will. It may not happen right away, but I have a feeling that they will take the 10 day layoff after T-day to adjust the offense accordingly.

those teams all have champions on their rosters. not to mention our defense could only dream about being anywhere near as good as the 2005/2008 Stealers,2000 Ravens and 2006 Colts defenses.

 

[rcaldw]

RC, we usually agree on most stuff. This I dont agree on though.

Is Wade Phillips the best coach we could have, no he isnt.

Is Jason Garrett the best offensive coordinator we could have, probably not. Although I do believe he vastly over criticized/scrutinized by the CZ experts.

Is this roster about as good as one could hope, yes it is. There arnt any glaring, obvious holes.

Jones did an a long and very deliberate coaching search. He made a decision to hire Wade after coming the conclusion that most watching the team for several years also did, that the defense was a huge problem and that our offense was showing signs of being a force.

At the end of the day Jerry makes a good scape goat for people who dont want to believe we have alot of prima donna type players (still) that dont work hard enough to excel or dedicate themselves enough to the little things that ultimately brings a championship. Bill Parcells was regarded as a "franchise" head coach. He was a multiple super bowl winner who rebuilt several teams. He did a great job of rebuilding our talent base, but he couldnt coach mistakes out of the OL, missed tackles by multiple players, dropped passes by certain receivers or poor decisions by the franchise QB either. ultimately, he failed as head coach just as Wade is.

Is Jones stating Felix should get the ball more anything other than stating the obvious? No it isnt, Garrett knows it, so does Skip Peete. If the guys healthy, he should be getting a considerable workload.

Jones is what I have always said he is. A person with a massive ego who craves the credit, but behind the scenes probably has very little actual input into anything. He is a delegator and relies on the input of multiple people for franchise decisions.

I appreciate your thoughtful comments, as always, David. We just disagree on this one. I, of course, hope you are right, but I'm afraid you aren't on this one. I think Jerry's way, which is a weak head coach whenever he can get away with it, just doesn't work.

And once again people throw up straw man arguments that have nothing to do with what I'm saying. (Not referring to David, but the Browns and Lions guy) Did I say the Lions and Browns were the way to run a football team?

How about the Patriots? How about the Steelers? How about how OUR TEAM USED TO BE?

And, in terms of you Yakuza Rich, I thought you were more reasonable than that. I don't think you are even attempting to hear what I'm saying. Jerry doesn't have to die, he HAS TO CHANGE. He has to be AN OWNER, and let a REAL FOOTBALL GUY do his job, and HIS COACHES do their job. Hold to your view and get back to me at the end of yet another season Jerry's way.

 

[Don Corleone]

Because the Stelers won the Super Bowl last year and don't lay stinkers in December as a trend... The Cowboys are showing a trend, while these guys are proven winners and don't exhibit this trend...

Well, does the game they played against us last December qualify as a stinker? I would say so. They had other similar games also. Their QB is a proven winner, along with a few other staple players. They've had a lot of turnover since their 2005 super bowl, so I wouldn't have necessarily called them proven winners last season.

those teams all have champions on their rosters. not to mention our defense could only dream about being anywhere near as good as the 2005/2008 Stealers,2000 Ravens and 2006 Colts defenses.

They have champions after they won the big one. The 2006 Colts defense was a liability at first, but turned it on late. They adjusted. That's what successful teams do. I have a hard time believing that our coaching staff is content, and unwilling to adjust.

 

[rcaldw]

Apparently so.

He's not a fan of the Dallas Cowboys. He's a fan of ripping into Jerry Jones. I could see a fan saying 'we'll never be fixed until Garrett is gone' or to that effect. I can even see a fan saying 'Jerry meddles too much' or 'Jerry can't draft' (I wouldn't agree with the latter, but I can see their opinion).

But when you say the Cowboys will never be fixed as long as Jerry is around, then I don't understand how you can be a fan of the team. Whether we like it or not, Jerry is the Dallas Cowboys. He's not going anywhere unless he dies. Ripping into him for everything screams 'I'm just here to rip into Jerry' which is the equivalent of being a Cowboys hater.

The playcaller thing I don't really get either. So he said he'd like to see Felix get the ball more. Who wouldn't? And he ran the ball effectively. Jeff Fisher who is so highly regarded as a coach had to be told by Bud Adams to put Vince Young in as the starting QB. And guess what? Adams was right and Fisher now looks like a fool.

I've criticized Jerry plenty of times, but I'm not going to criticize him for everything and in particular this season I think he's done a wonderful job with the personnel of this team. He can't make Tony Romo throw catchable passes. He can't make Nick Folk (a guy that wouldn't be here if Parcells was around) make a FG. He can't prevent Marion Barber from fumbling.

And who were we supposed to hire when Wade was hired? Look back at that time and there were really no big name coaches available. Then Wade goes 13-3. Is he supposed to fire Wade after that season?

I don't think so.

And if Jerry did butt in to things, it was probably with firing Brian Stewart, a guy that Wade would've undoubtedly kept around. And the defense won the Commanders game for us and for the most part, has been very very good this season.

You can't just blame Jerry for everything and credit him for nothing. If you do, then you're really not a fan of the Cowboys and a team like Jacksonville, which seems to need fans, would gladly take your support.






YAKUZA

I'll add one other thing, concerning the bold portion.

I am getting really sick of this infantile response. I've been a fan of the Cowboys, as I've already said, for 40 years. Have watched every Super Bowl win we have ever had. Have watched every Super Bowl loss we have ever had. Lived and died (figuratively of course) with every season.

You don't have a right to tell me what teams need fans and to go find them.

Take that comment and stuff it in your ear. You go find another team.

Can you understand that sentiment? I've stayed patient through about 4 different references to that, and after awhile its about enough.

 

[cowboyed]

Well a few weeks ago, Jerry said he wanted to see Ogletree and he made some big plays and we won.

This week he wanted to see more Felix and he made some nice plays. And we won.

We can argue about a lot of stuff but we do have three Super Bowl titles with him and he does spend loads of money to get the talent.

And prior to that Wade purportedly suggested to Garrett to also use Ogletree on the bubble screens. Jerry I am sure reminds his coaches to use personnel and may even put his 2 cents in but Wade and or Garrett play who they want to play.

Please note that Ogletree wasn't in against the Commanders did Jerry or Wade tell Jason not to use Ogletree this week. I heard Jerry himself state that he would like to see more of Felix but that may not mean he is ordering his coaches to do so.

I think the coaches used Barber, Jones and to a lesser degree Choice because the Skins are susceptible to the run. In fact the Skins were expecting it. So did Zorn listen to Jerry? I think Jason Garrett is his own coach but will embrace suggestions when they make sense.

 

[Don Corleone]

Jerry I am sure reminds his coaches to use personnel and may even put his 2 cents in but Wade and or Garrett play who they want to play.

But Jerry Jones IS the Head Coach.

 

[Juke99]

Hey...lemme just chime in here for a second...

If we can continue a discussion about the pros and cons of Jerry Jones as an owner, without tossing in "go root for another team" or questioning a Zone member's loyalty to the team (which is pretty darn close to a personal insult) that's dandy...if not, that ain't dandy and I'd invite you to simply stop posting in this thread.

Fact is, we're all Cowboy fans...even when we criticize.

Thanks

 

[Bach]

So Jerry Jones' way, which has won Superbowls and been to the playoffs in the past 4 years, is worse than the Browns or Lions', two organizations who's ownership styles you approve of?

Jerry Jones' "way" didn't win any Super Bowls. Jerry's "way" didn't start until the man who built the SB teams left after the '93 season.

 

[Ratmatt]

You leaving? I'm not going anywhere. But I'm also right, and if you knew a little bit about how successful NFL teams have functioned, like, FOREVER, you would know that Jerry Jones' way makes a mess of a football team.

Yes, we are 7-3, and we will be 8-3 after Thanksgiving. That's better than the Lions and Browns, and a whole lot of other teams, but I always thought the goal was the Super Bowl?

This team isn't going to the Super Bowl the way it is functioning, period.

Your exactly right about Jerry.Most die hard cowboy fans don't want to deal with it,because they know it is the one problem on this team that can't be fixed.The sad thing is jerry is the biggest problem with this team.I guess when this team goes completely south in a few years,jerry will hire a Bill Parcells type to build it back up again.Then Jerry will take it back over and continue the cycle of tearing it down.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Of course Jerry is the root of the whole problem. Anyone who denies it is just being a blind Cowboy homer.

I love Jerry at times, and I know he wants to win and his heart is in the right place but he needs to take a page out of George Steinbrenner's book and take a couple of years away like Steinbrenner was forced to do in the early
90's and let a true, professional football GM retool his organization and get the right coaching staff in place and then he can come back and enjoy a championship team as Steinbrenner did in '95.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

I agree. Our problems will never be fixed. I don't see any way to rid ourselves of our idiot fan-base.

QFMFT.

Everyone has their opinion on how a football team should be run, and the rest of us are "too blind" to see it their way especially since they've been watching the team for X years.

You know who cares how long you've been a fan? Not a **** soul. NOBODY. To bring it up as some crutch of credibility is laughable at best.

 

[rcaldw]

QFMFT.

Everyone has their opinion on how a football team should be run, and the rest of us are "too blind" to see it their way especially since they've been watching the team for X years.

You know who cares how long you've been a fan? Not a **** soul. NOBODY. To bring it up as some crutch of credibility is laughable at best.

Then laugh. If you actually read what you respond to you would know the context in which I brought it up. Someone was telling me to go find another team. Which is the usual approach for people who claim that I'm narrow (see your opening comment), but really can't tolerate any view but their own. (see your last comment.)

So, it was in response to "go find another team" that I point out I've been following this team for 40 years. I don't plan on switching.

And by the way, I'm pretty sure that if you just wanted to sit down (and we were to actually have the opportunity) and just talk Cowboys football, past, history, statistics, etc.... I would be able to demonstrate that I understand what I'm talking about, whether you agree with me or not.

Contrary to what some on the board seem to think, you can have more than one OPINION that is actually based on FACTS (that's right, facts don't yield just one opinion), or TRENDS (trends don't yield just one opinion either), and we ought to be able to enjoy the team together even when we come to different opinions.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

Then laugh. If you actually read what you respond to you would know the context in which I brought it up. Someone was telling me to go find another team. Which is the usual approach for people who claim that I'm narrow (see your opening comment), but really can't tolerate any view but their own. (see your last comment.)

So, it was in response to "go find another team" that I point out I've been following this team for 40 years. I don't plan on switching.

And by the way, I'm pretty sure that if you just wanted to sit down (and we were to actually have the opportunity) and just talk Cowboys football, past, history, statistics, etc.... I would be able to demonstrate that I understand what I'm talking about, whether you agree with me or not.

Contrary to what some on the board seem to think, you can have more than one OPINION that is actually based on FACTS (that's right, facts don't yield just one opinion), or TRENDS (trends don't yield just one opinion either), and we ought to be able to enjoy the team together even when we come to different opinions.

Based on facts huh? A sideline shot for 30 seconds brings you to the conclusion that we're without a head coach.

A game plan that favored playing against the weakness of the 25th ranked rushing defense this weekend over the 5th ranked rushing defense last weekend has you convinced that it was Jerry, and Jerry alone, that prompted Garrett to go run heavy this past Sunday? Specifically with Felix since the Commanders were susceptible to the run on the edges?

Seems like a series of facts were ignored to bolster a myopic opinion. Kind of like the record of our team the last few seasons. Whatever though, tilt away at the windmill of your choice.

 

[rcaldw]

Based on facts huh? A sideline shot for 30 seconds brings you to the conclusion that we're without a head coach.

A game plan that favored playing against the weakness of the 25th ranked rushing defense this weekend over the 5th ranked rushing defense last weekend has you convinced that it was Jerry, and Jerry alone, that prompted Garrett to go run heavy this past Sunday? Specifically with Felix since the Commanders were susceptible to the run on the edges?

Seems like a series of facts were ignored to bolster a myopic opinion. Kind of like the record of our team the last few seasons. Whatever though, tilt away at the windmill of your choice.

Have you ever heard the saying "a picture is worth a thousand words?" Again, if you would read statements in their context you would discover that I said that those 30 seconds REMINDED ME of what I believe is an ONGOING problem in Dallas. A weak head coach. Why is he weak? Why do his assistants engage in behavior that I can guarantee you Bill Parcells would have shut down in a heart beat? (Can you imagine Parcells standing passively while one of his assistants carried on an animated conversation with an official about a call?)

We have a weak head coach because JERRY LIKES IT THAT WAY. Period.

Why do we really have a divided head coach position? Garrett on offense and Puffenstuff on defense? BECAUSE JERRY LIKES IT THAT WAY.

Jerry likes it that way because he wants to be the final word on everything. He will be the first one to tell you that too.

I say that an owner needs to stick to being the owner, not the GM, not the playcaller, not the coach, not the team doctor giving injury reports, not the scout, THE OWNER.

As it stands right now we DO have some decent talent. Question is, when you have players pushing coaches, and no one pays a fine, when you have the owner going public with his play calling desires, and when you have a shut out followed by a 7 point performance, yea you will be 8-3 after the Raiduhs come to town, but how far can you really go?

As I've said more than once, I'll be happy to be wrong, I'm a Cowboys fan. I'll be rooting for my team against every opponent.

I just don't think Jerry learned anything from the post Jimmy, pre-Parcells horrific gap of losing. As soon as Parcells helped him get the roster straightened out, Jerry was right back to his old ways.

 

[utrunner07]

This team is about Jerry's ego, of course he want desperately to win, but not at the risk of him not getting the biggest part of the credit or the biggest piece of the limelight. That simple.

 

[WV Cowboy]

I don't like everything about Jerry Jones, but I do like some things.

Question is, when you have players pushing coaches, and no one pays a fine,

Seriously, you are still bringing that up? WP, Newman and Campo have all said it was nothing. Things like that happen on NFL sidelines, ... and frankly I'm glad that they do happen, and I'm glad that they are viewed as "no big deal."

when you have the owner going public with his play calling desires,

I have heard it said the Jones hears the coaches saying things like, "Ogletree needs some touches" and "Felix needs more carries" and then he goes in an interview saing he wants to see these things. That makes more sense as to what really happens than to think he tells coaches what to do or who to play.

and when you have a shut out followed by a 7 point performance, yea you will be 8-3 after the Raiduhs come to town, but how far can you really go?

First it was not a shutout, and secondly if you win the game when you have a 7 point performance, how can you chastise the owner for the offensive woes without praising him for the defensive dominance? We did win a game when only scoring 7 pts, you can't do that without a dominant defense.

As I've said more than once, I'll be happy to be wrong, I'm a Cowboys fan. I'll be rooting for my team against every opponent.

Just stick to doing that.

(Sit down and make a list of 5 things that you think Jones has done well, and then hang your hat on those.)

Take the good with the bad and the wins with the losses, you can't control anything else anyways.

 

[boyzjunkie]

Anybody who posts such rubbish should be immediately BANNED. Nobody has the right to tell someone to leave this forum for sharing their opinion.

MODS: I am calling on you to take action here.

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