Who Is To Blame For The Star Wars Fiasco?

[speedkilz88]

Have there been any lightsaber scenes more 'cringeworthy and goofy' in your opinion than Luke and Kylo's faceoff on Crait in TLJ?

Even Palpatine/Sidious talked about "how strong he was with the Force" as if it somehow surpassed themselves. That never came to fruition in his arc. Maybe it had something to do with losing two thirds of his body in that lightsaber duel? But whatever the reason, he never showed this "power" that everyone talked about.

Side note/crazy theory:

Maybe the reason why an otherwise ruthless murderer like Darth Sidious kept Anakin around and didn't simply throw him into the lava and move on was because Palatine actually is Anakin's "father" in the sense of influencing the Force (Midichlorians) to create his life in the first place? It's the best reasoning that I could come up with for why a treacherous and disloyal Sith lord would suddenly show mercy and take pity on him.

Palpatine hinted that Darth Plageuis could create life and taught his apprentice everything he knew.

 

[DallasEast]

And the compassion that he showed for the defeated and helpless Anakin Skywalker felt out of character for the ruthlessness he has shown in so many other situations. Add in the belief that he was in fact Darth Plageus' treacherous, murdering apprentice, and he shows loyalty to no one.

Maybe it was like you said, and as far as Palpatine knew, with all the Jedi dead, this was the only other Force-sensitive being available to him (or so he believed)?

Essentially settling for "better than nothing".

Granted, his 'tender' contemplation of what he should do next with Anakin was visually out of character. No argument there but I weigh that visual against the sight of him giggling like a school girl behind Vader's back after he told Darth that he must have killed Padme. The lack of compassion was totally in character then. Dude was pure evil.

 

[Stash]

Palpatine hinted that Darth Plageuis could create life and taught his apprentice everything he knew.

Bingo!

 

[Stash]

Granted, his 'tender' contemplation of what he should do next with Anakin was visually out of character. No argument there but I weigh that visual against the sight of him giggling like a school girl behind Vader's back after he told Darth that he must have killed Padme. The lack of compassion was totally in character then. Dude was pure evil.

And again it amazes me that this character so "powerful" with the force never sensed the least bit of deception. That was what was most amazing to me about the Sith, everything they did or said was a complete lie. Their greatest weapon was deceit.

 

[Runwildboys]

Even Palpatine/Sidious talked about "how strong he was with the Force" as if it somehow surpassed themselves. That never came to fruition in his arc. Maybe it had something to do with losing two thirds of his body in that lightsaber duel? But whatever the reason, he never showed this "power" that everyone talked about.

Side note/crazy theory:

Maybe the reason why an otherwise ruthless murderer like Darth Sidious kept Anakin around and didn't simply throw him into the lava and move on was because Palatine actually is Anakin's "father" in the sense of influencing the Force (Midichlorians) to create his life in the first place? It's the best reasoning that I could come up with for why a treacherous and disloyal Sith lord would suddenly show mercy and take pity on him.

Maybe Anakin was as powerful as they thought, but his lack of conviction to one side or the other kept him from being able to fully access the power?

 

[Stash]

Maybe Anakin was as powerful as they thought, but his lack of conviction to one side or the other kept him from being able to fully access the power?

How much more "convicted" must one be to the Dark Side than to murder a bunch of children? That's something I can never reconcile when it comes to his "redemption" at the end of Return of the Jedi. I don't care what you do from that point, there's no coming back from that. But I'll go with the " less body parts left, less Midichlorians, less ability to control the Force" line of thinking myself. I think that makes more sense than any other theory.

 

[Runwildboys]

How much more "convicted" must one be to the Dark Side than to murder a bunch of children? That's something I can never reconcile when it comes to his "redemption" at the end of Return of the Jedi. I don't care what you do from that point, there's no coming back from that. But I'll go with the " less body parts left, less Midichlorians, less ability to control the Force" line of thinking myself. I think that makes more sense than any other theory.

Future Jedi children. But he couldn't kill Luke, even going so far as to kill the Emperor.

 

[Stash]

Future Jedi children.

And?

But he couldn't kill Luke, even going so far as to kill the Emperor.

He sure tried like hell when he was swinging that light saber around, didn't he? Especially in the Empire Strikes Back.

 

[speedkilz88]

How much more "convicted" must one be to the Dark Side than to murder a bunch of children? That's something I can never reconcile when it comes to his "redemption" at the end of Return of the Jedi. I don't care what you do from that point, there's no coming back from that. But I'll go with the " less body parts left, less Midichlorians, less ability to control the Force" line of thinking myself. I think that makes more sense than any other theory.

Speaking of the padawans. Where were the older ones? Like teenagers?

 

[Runwildboys]

And?




He sure tried like hell when he was swinging that light saber around, didn't he? Especially in the Empire Strikes Back.

My point being he considered those children enemies, who would someday help to defeat the dark side...not that I condone that behavior.

 

[Stash]

My point being he considered those children enemies, who would someday help to defeat the dark side...not that I condone that behavior.

I'm glad to hear that because there's no condoning such behavior, no matter if you consider them "enemies" or not. It's something I really blame Lucas for, a terrible storytelling decision on his part and something he didn't think through. It's one thing to have a bunch of nameless, faceless, CGI clones do something like that, with overwhelming numbers. It's quite another for a character who's supposed to have a "tragic arc" and eventual redemption.

There's no coming back from that. Not ever.

 

[DallasEast]

A weakly connected note: I found myself laughing just now as we have discussed how powerful Anakin and Vader are. DICE introduced Anakin into its game as a playable hero/villain earlier this year. Vader was a playable character not only since Star Wars Battlefront II was released but ever since the original Battlefront's release.

Please bear with me a moment...

In the game, Vader's abilities are Saber Throw, Focused Rage, and Focus Choke. Any one of these are 99% likely as a death sentence if you face Vader as a non-hero character. Vader is quite formidable even if you are playing with hero characters like Luke, Yoda, etc. Vader's Focused Rage can make him practically invulnerable for a few seconds and he can slice-and-dice you with his lightsaber without incurring damage.

On the other hand, Anakin's (which was initially weird seeing him fight his OLDER SELF ) abilities are Passionate Strike, Pull Dominance, Heroic Might and a FOURTH skill called Retribution. Yep. The younger guy is MORE powerful than his older self. Heroic Might expands in a 360 degree EXPANDING area that incapacitates any non-hero or Sith character who does not use their blocking ability up to five seconds. Think slow paralyzing death for anyone catch sometimes in a 60 YARD RADIUS area of Little Ani.

But that is not all.

Little Ani suffers practically zero damage while employing Heroic Might. Got a tank? Shoot him. Does not make much difference unless he was practically out of life before using the ability.

Nope. Not through yet.

ANY damage Little Ani incurs can be transferred to his Retribution ability, essentially dishing back the same punishment you are inflicting on him back onto you and anyone within that huge damage radius of his.

Sucker is overpowered. I love shooting Little Ani with Stinger Pistol.

Excuse me.

/rant

 

[nobody]

I remember in the PT. I believe it was TPM. Qui Gonn was cutting through metal door that ookedabout 3 feet thick.

Yep. So either Kylo had to be busting his butt not to kill Finn and just injure his spine with a freaking lightsaber or it was horrible writing. lol Then there's Rey's cut to Kylo's face. Again, that's an awfully low amount of damage for that.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I'm glad to hear that because there's no condoning such behavior, no matter if you consider them "enemies" or not. It's something I really blame Lucas for, a terrible storytelling decision on his part and something he didn't think through. It's one thing to have a bunch of nameless, faceless, CGI clones do something like that, with overwhelming numbers. It's quite another for a character who's supposed to have a "tragic arc" and eventual redemption.

There's no coming back from that. Not ever.

I agree. You don’t come back from that. Cannot be redeemed.

Kylo cannot be redeemed from killing his dad... Han.

 

[Stash]

I agree. You don’t come back from that. Cannot be redeemed.

Kylo cannot be redeemed from killing his dad... Han.

Absolutely, Kylo might ultimately make some sacrifice and come back to the "Light Side" in this upcoming film, but spare us the "happy force ghost" at the end crap. We ain't buyin' it.

 

[Trendnet]

Absolutely, Kylo might ultimately make some sacrifice and come back to the "Light Side" in this upcoming film, but spare us the "happy force ghost" at the end crap. We ain't buyin' it.

"Happy Force Ghost" crap makes me laugh.

This sums it up for me. "Awkward this is"

 

[Stash]

"Happy Force Ghost" crap makes me laugh.

This sums it up for me. "Awkward this is"

That's hilarious! Thanks for sharing it!

 

[Roadtrip635]

Yep. So either Kylo had to be busting his butt not to kill Finn and just injure his spine with a freaking lightsaber or it was horrible writing. lol Then there's Rey's cut to Kylo's face. Again, that's an awfully low amount of damage for that.

The violence has always been sanitized in the Star Wars franchise, there's always been a low amount of damage for all the shooting and blasting going on. It's not so much horrible writing as a choice they made from the very beginning. The original trilogy often had cartoonish levels of violence, the heroes can avoid hundreds of laser blasts from supposedly well trained troops, when someone is hit, they give out exaggerated groans like kids playing on the playground.

When Obi Wan and Vader "duel" the level of expertise is on par with a couple 6yr old kids playing at home. When Obi Wan is killed, he's not gorily cut in half, he just disappears into The Force, like that dog you had as a kid that mysteriously disappears to live on a farm somewhere. These movies were written with kids in mind, think people kinda forget that after they've grown up.

 

[DallasEast]

The violence has always been sanitized in the Star Wars franchise, there's always been a low amount of damage for all the shooting and blasting going on. It's not so much horrible writing as a choice they made from the very beginning. The original trilogy often had cartoonish levels of violence, the heroes can avoid hundreds of laser blasts from supposedly well trained troops, when someone is hit, they give out exaggerated groans like kids playing on the playground.

When Obi Wan and Vader "duel" the level of expertise is on par with a couple 6yr old kids playing at home. When Obi Wan is killed, he's not gorily cut in half, he just disappears into The Force, like that dog you had as a kid that mysteriously disappears to live on a farm somewhere. These movies were written with kids in mind, think people kinda forget that after they've grown up.

The first six films reflected George Lucas' vision of how violence would be shown in his storied fable. His successors have followed suit in this era's movies. Much of what is seen on screen could easily be inserted into a storybook.

You mentioned how nongraphic Obi-Wan's death was. I would also suggest Darth Maul's death scene as another example. Certainly, Obi-Wan cuts Maul in two but all the audience sees initially is Maul's mild shock, which is followed by Maul falling down the bottomless shaft. Maul's body does not immediately separate into two halves either. Both halves disengage with the other and start bouncing off the shaft's walls after falling enough of a distance that it seems slightly 'far off' from the audience's perspective.

No blood spray. No intestines or bone particles left sizzling on Obi-Wan's lightsaber. It is like Lucas wanted the audience to accept lightsabers deliver only clean, non traumatic (to the audience at least) mortal wounds typical of "An elegant weapon... for a more civilized age."

Thread question: Did anyone in the films ever get shot by a blaster and basically just shrugged off their injury as nothing but a scratch like Leia did in Return of the Jedi? There are likely other examples but I cannot remember off the top of my head.

 

[DallasEast]

"Happy Force Ghost" crap makes me laugh.

This sums it up for me. "Awkward this is"

This is great stuff! I have watched the whole video twice.

"Many Bothans died to bring us this information."

~dramatic pause~

"No offense lady but all we Rebels ever DO is die to accomplish things. Except for the A-Team over there."

And sure enough! The camera 'pans' to the outspoken Rebel's left and standing there are Lando (Hannibal), Chewbacca (B.A. Baracus), Han (Faceman) and Leia (Triple A). They WERE the freaking A-Team!