Why does Rod seem to hate FA DT's?

[waldoputty]

I'm not dealing in hypotheticals. What is the actual pay and how does that compare to the actual market?

lol, fair market value -means fair market value.
not value that is suppressed with restrictions.

 

[CCBoy]

You're smarter than this

DLaw and Tapper have significant enough back problems that they were forced to sit out last year
Smith is a prayer at this stage. If he plays LB in the NFL with a drop foot he will be doing something never before done in the history of the NFL, then we expect him to play at an elite level? That is crazy

Counting on long shots like these is exactly how you end up with major holes during the season and end up 8-8 or 9-7 and complain about "bad luck"

It is not bad luck it is poor planning

Always wanting to go to the prom with the Homecoming Queen, and not who is a good match for you...

Beyond the secondary, the Cowboys have lost little as to team ability in the now...and the draft is yet to come.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

Dallas spent a third round pick on Maliek Collins last year, spent big to sign Cedric Thornton, and Tyrone Crawford's big money deal came when he was a DT.

The Cowboys and Rod have invested, they just haven't gotten the returns. The good news is Collins looks like a keeper.

And don't forget the Greg Hardy deal. I'm still POed that he didn't pan out. You would think he would have said, "Cool! I got a second chance. Not gonna blow it this time. Gonna be a standup guy and help this team win." Didn't work out that way.

 

[jjktkk]

Nonsense.

Absolute nonsense.

It's not like they haven't made an attempt to bolster the DL... I won't go into the various moves that have been made.

On top of that there was a distinct effort by the club to be "Offense first".

In addition they're in an environment with 31 other teams after the same piece of meat... On top of that you have roster limitations and you're limited on how much money you can spend to acquire talent.

Finally this defensive line was 11th in the NFL in YPA vs. the run and 13th in the NFL in sacks. Great numbers? No. Bad numbers? No.

Wow MichaelWinicki, I'm surprised you tried to actually reason with the zones own "get off my lawn" poster.

 

[jjktkk]

You're right, this is absolute nonsense

You don't build an offense in 6 years and then try to build a defense. This is as nonsensical as the defense of that strategy

You build a team

Many coaches have been hired and been to NFCCG and AFCCGs since Garrett was hired as HC and they were not gifted a top 10 QB already familiar with their system

This FO and coaching staff has made bad decisions directly resulting in the mediocre results we have witnessed

The FO is purely reactionary with no real plan
First they spend in FA like drunken soldiers, people make fun of them and they learn the catch phrase "build through the draft" and go completely overboard with that policy, stupidly

They was to build a team is to build the offense and defense and STs at the same time through the draft AND FA

Wow, so that's how you build a NFL team, who knew?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Wow MichaelWinicki, I'm surprised you tried to actually reason with the zones own "get off my lawn" poster.

Yeah, it was a big waste of time.

And the thing is I bet if we ever found out who he/she actually is and were able to follow them for 24 hours I bet we'd find out they manage their life far differently than the rigid, terse "This is the way to do it!" nonsense they share here.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

lol, fair market value -means fair market value.
not value that is suppressed with restrictions.

You still haven't given an example of someone making this hypothetical market value because it doesn't exist yet. The market hasn't reached that level. It will eventually, but it's not there yet and certainly wasn't last year when Vernon signed

 

[waldoputty]

You still haven't given an example of someone making this hypothetical market value because it doesn't exist yet. The market hasn't reached that level. It will eventually, but it's not there yet and certainly wasn't last year when Vernon signed

that is because teams are using the franchise tag to tag the superior players.
your 'market' is set for the 2nd tier - the vernon oliviers - for $17M.
that is the market rate.

if a Suh or Miller hits the open market, then you will see the next level.
if you just use common sense for a bit, what do you think Miller would go for.
i bet at least 25M per year.

 

[irishline]

vernon is paid ~17m aav.
one can argue the fair market price for a all pro now may be 25m.
cap dollars = inflation

How in the world could one honestly argue that the fair market price for an all-pro defensive end is 25 million when the highest paid defensive lineman only makes 17.2 million?

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/defensive-end/

Come on man it literally takes 2 seconds to look things up before you post.

if you just use common sense for a bit, what do you think Miller would go for i bet at least 25M per year.

Common sense tells you to use the figures that you actually have instead of "betting" a 50% increase in one season.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

It's not market value until someone pays it. Until then it's an estimated value, not market value

 

[waldoputty]

How in the world could one honestly argue that the fair market price for an all-pro defensive end is 25 million when the highest paid defensive lineman only makes 17.2 million?

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/defensive-end/

Come on man it literally takes 2 seconds to look things up before you post.

i just explained it.
the top tier defense players are not on the open market.
you get the second tier that is paid ~$15M
if the second tier is paid $15M or so, what do you think the 1st tier is worth?
is this obvious?

 

[waldoputty]

It's not market value until someone pays it. Until then it's an estimated value, not market value

fine, if you want to get into semantics, then it is the estimated market value for a top edge...

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

fine, if you want to get into semantics, then it is the estimated market value for a top edge...

And it's not currently accurate

 

[waldoputty]

And it's not currently accurate

estimated is estimated.
the point is that the $17M price for olivier is unreasonable is not based on free market economics.
that is because the value of the top tier edge players are much higher.
if people would pay $17M for olivier, imagine what they would pay for miller.
there is sticker shock for the fans because the cap has rapidly expanded causing dramatic inflation of top AVAILABLE player salaries.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

estimated is estimated.
the point is that the $17M price for olivier is unreasonable is not based on free market economics.
that is because the value of the top tier edge players are much higher.
if people would pay $17M for olivier, imagine what they would pay for miller.
there is sticker shock for the fans because the cap has rapidly expanded causing dramatic inflation of top AVAILABLE player salaries.

The fact is Vernon was paid as a top of the market DE. That's not opinion but fact. He made more than any other non QB in 2016. That's all-pro money, which supports my original point - that you think is flawed based only on your conjecture. He made more than Miller, more than Watt, more than Suh, more than Houston - all of whom set the market previously. The market will be re-set the next time a premier d-lineman comes up for a new contract, but until that happens, Vernon's contract is the standard - and the top of the market.

 

[waldoputty]

The fact is Vernon was paid as a top of the market DE. That's not opinion but fact. He made more than any other non QB in 2016. That's all-pro money, which supports my original point - that you think is flawed based only on your conjecture. He made more than Miller, more than Watt, more than Suh, more than Houston - all of whom set the market previously. The market will be re-set the next time a premier d-lineman comes up for a new contract, but until that happens, Vernon's contract is the standard - and the top of the market.

oliver vernon was paid in free agency and i believe he was neither a probowler or an all pro.
when was the last time a probowler or an all pro edge allowed to reach free agency???

you say he is making all pro money, but the level of all pro money has not been established in free agency.

salaries go up when there is a shortage of talent and a surplus of money.
that is just life.
just like google raised the salaries of their top programmer almost by 100% 3 years ago from around 200k to around 400k.
to everyone else, it seems extravagant.
but that is the price people pay.
most of us are on the outside looking in.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

oliver vernon was paid in free agency and i believe he was neither a probowler or an all pro.
when was the last time a probowler or an all pro edge allowed to reach free agency???

you say he is making all pro money, but the level of all pro money has not been established in free agency.

salaries go up when there is a shortage of talent and a surplus of money.
that is just life.
just like google raised the salaries of their top programmer almost by 100% 3 years ago from around 200k to around 400k.
to everyone else, it seems extravagant.
but that is the price people pay.
most of us are on the outside looking in.

BTW, Vernon was second team all-pro and was paid like a top of the market edge rusher by the Giants. Just because you think he's second tier doesn't mean he was paid that way. The Giants paid him first tier money and an argument can be made he played to that value or close to it.

 

[visionary]

Yeah, it was a big waste of time.

And the thing is I bet if we ever found out who he/she actually is and were able to follow them for 24 hours I bet we'd find out they manage their life far differently than the rigid, terse "This is the way to do it!" nonsense they share here.

At least I wouldn't be constantly making idiotic excuses for obvious ineptitude

 

[MichaelWinicki]

At least I wouldn't be constantly making idiotic excuses for obvious ineptitude

Yep, I bet seeing you operate in real life would be a eye-opener.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You're smarter than this

DLaw and Tapper have significant enough back problems that they were forced to sit out last year
Smith is a prayer at this stage. If he plays LB in the NFL with a drop foot he will be doing something never before done in the history of the NFL, then we expect him to play at an elite level? That is crazy

Counting on long shots like these is exactly how you end up with major holes during the season and end up 8-8 or 9-7 and complain about "bad luck"

It is not bad luck it is poor planning

DLaw and Tapper are not dead. We will see how much they can contribute. Waving your hands, jumping up and down screaming they are going to fail does not make it so.

Jaylon's nerve is already firing and he has been able to flex his peroneal for some time now. The season doesn't start for 6 months.

We're having a draft that is loaded with DE and DBs in about 6 weeks in case you forgot.