Why have contracts? What good is 5th year option?

[Reid1boys]

I was listening to Mike Florio and on the show they were discussing Jordan Love currently due to get paid about 11 million and how there is no way he will play under that.

I often hear how this player is far outproducing his contract.

It seems no players actually play under the 5th year option.

So this brings me to my question. What is the point of having a CBA that spells out the rules teams can play by. The players agreed to the CBA. So why dont teams play hardball? I am loving what the niners are doing with Aiyuk. Every player that signs does not mean they should get top 5 money at their position.So if he doesnt want to play this year, while hes under contract, PLEASE.... let him suffer the fines and then not play and lose a year's salary.

If I ran the Cowboys, or any team fo rthat matter, I simply would not renegotiate these deals. Zack Martin last year? Not a chance in hell Id have given him more money. Any why would the team that holds to a contract be the bad guy? How are you supposed to deal with the salary cap when agents and players are constantly wanting new deals done before contracts are up. This is really starting to snowball and until some teams say no and stick to their guns, this issue is about to get a lot worse moving forward.

 

[Ranching]

I was listening to Mike Florio and on the show they were discussing Jordan Love currently due to get paid about 11 million and how there is no way he will play under that.

I often hear how this player is far outproducing his contract.

It seems no players actually play under the 5th year option.

So this brings me to my question. What is the point of having a CBA that spells out the rules teams can play by. The players agreed to the CBA. So why dont teams play hardball? I am loving what the niners are doing with Aiyuk. Every player that signs does not mean they should get top 5 money at their position.So if he doesnt want to play this year, while hes under contract, PLEASE.... let him suffer the fines and then not play and lose a year's salary.

If I ran the Cowboys, or any team fo rthat matter, I simply would not renegotiate these deals. Zack Martin last year? Not a chance in hell Id have given him more money. Any why would the team that holds to a contract be the bad guy? How are you supposed to deal with the salary cap when agents and players are constantly wanting new deals done before contracts are up. This is really starting to snowball and until some teams say no and stick to their guns, this issue is about to get a lot worse moving forward.

You should hold a clinic and educate those idiots.

 

[Adreme]

I was listening to Mike Florio and on the show they were discussing Jordan Love currently due to get paid about 11 million and how there is no way he will play under that.

I often hear how this player is far outproducing his contract.

It seems no players actually play under the 5th year option.

So this brings me to my question. What is the point of having a CBA that spells out the rules teams can play by. The players agreed to the CBA. So why dont teams play hardball? I am loving what the niners are doing with Aiyuk. Every player that signs does not mean they should get top 5 money at their position.So if he doesnt want to play this year, while hes under contract, PLEASE.... let him suffer the fines and then not play and lose a year's salary.

If I ran the Cowboys, or any team fo rthat matter, I simply would not renegotiate these deals. Zack Martin last year? Not a chance in hell Id have given him more money. Any why would the team that holds to a contract be the bad guy? How are you supposed to deal with the salary cap when agents and players are constantly wanting new deals done before contracts are up. This is really starting to snowball and until some teams say no and stick to their guns, this issue is about to get a lot worse moving forward.

First off every team that exercises a 5th year option actually has the player play under it. When they talk about how no one "plays under it" what they are saying is typically the extension happens before that but the extension is added onto the 5th year option and does not replace it.

Second, the "hardball" that the 49ers are doing is pointless. He is going to get the same amount of money regardless. Whether he gets it this year or next year he will still be top 5 at his position (in fact waiting will only make the amount he gets go up), because whether its an extension or a new contract the new money will start at the exact same time.

Finally the idea of playing "hardball" sounds nice but in the end just means players will choose to go somewhere else where and work for someone who is less two faced. Meanwhile if they were to sit out it would not be for an entire year, it would be half the year, just enough to doom the team, but not so long that the player cannot show what they can do in the other half and even if you bench them for it they still get paid. So a couple teams say no and the players will go to the ones that do not, because no one likes working for the kind of boss you describe.

 

[fivetwos]

I was listening to Mike Florio and on the show they were discussing Jordan Love currently due to get paid about 11 million and how there is no way he will play under that.

I often hear how this player is far outproducing his contract.

It seems no players actually play under the 5th year option.

So this brings me to my question. What is the point of having a CBA that spells out the rules teams can play by. The players agreed to the CBA. So why dont teams play hardball? I am loving what the niners are doing with Aiyuk. Every player that signs does not mean they should get top 5 money at their position.So if he doesnt want to play this year, while hes under contract, PLEASE.... let him suffer the fines and then not play and lose a year's salary.

If I ran the Cowboys, or any team fo rthat matter, I simply would not renegotiate these deals. Zack Martin last year? Not a chance in hell Id have given him more money. Any why would the team that holds to a contract be the bad guy? How are you supposed to deal with the salary cap when agents and players are constantly wanting new deals done before contracts are up. This is really starting to snowball and until some teams say no and stick to their guns, this issue is about to get a lot worse moving forward.

Generally agree, but I’d have to think there’s a difference if a WR or OL misses an entire off-season program as opposed to the QB. He runs the entire offense and can hold the team hostage.

I tried to make a similar point recently. Even if you luck out and draft a QB that’s ready to play immediately, you’re like still dealing with two years of dead money from the last guy, then your rookie wants to be paid after year three, so there’s no real thing as getting away cheap at QB, unless you’re awful by design or otherwise for a few seasons before you hit that draft lottery.

I’ve said 400 times that I’m indifferent on what they do with Prescott, but may as well just pay him given the state rest of the roster.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Not only does a player get fined and lose out on salary if they hold out long enough, but they also end up losing credit for a full season so that team retains their rights. The way it's set up the teams have a TON of leverage against the players if they elect to hold out. The issue is the guys that get 5th year options are typically really good players that teams can't afford to go into the season without.

There is no perfect system when it comes to contracts and salaries for pro sports, but overall I think the NFL does a decent job here. Most players do play on the 5th year options, just like most play on the franchise tags. We just hear about the few that don't.

As we get closer to a new CBA it'll be interesting to see how both sides approach this. The NFLPA has to balance the freedom these top guys get to hit the market with also making sure that the bottom of the roster guys are compensated too.

 

[thunderpimp91]

First off every team that exercises a 5th year option actually has the player play under it. When they talk about how no one "plays under it" what they are saying is typically the extension happens before that but the extension is added onto the 5th year option and does not replace it.

Second, the "hardball" that the 49ers are doing is pointless. He is going to get the same amount of money regardless. Whether he gets it this year or next year he will still be top 5 at his position (in fact waiting will only make the amount he gets go up), because whether its an extension or a new contract the new money will start at the exact same time.

Finally the idea of playing "hardball" sounds nice but in the end just means players will choose to go somewhere else where and work for someone who is less two faced. Meanwhile if they were to sit out it would not be for an entire year, it would be half the year, just enough to doom the team, but not so long that the player cannot show what they can do in the other half and even if you bench them for it they still get paid. So a couple teams say no and the players will go to the ones that do not, because no one likes working for the kind of boss you describe.

I would agree from a standpoint that it's dumb to keep a guy around who you both dont want to pay and feels disrespected by that team. The better option would be to simply trade that player, lose the distraction, and lose the player who probably wont want to be there. That said however I wouldn't say what the 49ers are doing is pointless. If the player really does hold out all year then SF would retain his rights the following year. If he does play on the 5th year option they can still franchise him.

These teams do hold a ton of leverage over these guys, the question becomes is the leverage worth it in the end?

 

[Coogiguy03]

I was listening to Mike Florio and on the show they were discussing Jordan Love currently due to get paid about 11 million and how there is no way he will play under that.

I often hear how this player is far outproducing his contract.

It seems no players actually play under the 5th year option.

So this brings me to my question. What is the point of having a CBA that spells out the rules teams can play by. The players agreed to the CBA. So why dont teams play hardball? I am loving what the niners are doing with Aiyuk. Every player that signs does not mean they should get top 5 money at their position.So if he doesnt want to play this year, while hes under contract, PLEASE.... let him suffer the fines and then not play and lose a year's salary.

If I ran the Cowboys, or any team fo rthat matter, I simply would not renegotiate these deals. Zack Martin last year? Not a chance in hell Id have given him more money. Any why would the team that holds to a contract be the bad guy? How are you supposed to deal with the salary cap when agents and players are constantly wanting new deals done before contracts are up. This is really starting to snowball and until some teams say no and stick to their guns, this issue is about to get a lot worse moving forward.

My point exactly!!!! So what stops Ceedee for example to make 30+ million, then in 3 years, he says I'm not making enough, I want more money

 

[Chasing6]

I was listening to Mike Florio and on the show they were discussing Jordan Love currently due to get paid about 11 million and how there is no way he will play under that.

I often hear how this player is far outproducing his contract.

It seems no players actually play under the 5th year option.

So this brings me to my question. What is the point of having a CBA that spells out the rules teams can play by. The players agreed to the CBA. So why dont teams play hardball? I am loving what the niners are doing with Aiyuk. Every player that signs does not mean they should get top 5 money at their position.So if he doesnt want to play this year, while hes under contract, PLEASE.... let him suffer the fines and then not play and lose a year's salary.

If I ran the Cowboys, or any team fo rthat matter, I simply would not renegotiate these deals. Zack Martin last year? Not a chance in hell Id have given him more money. Any why would the team that holds to a contract be the bad guy? How are you supposed to deal with the salary cap when agents and players are constantly wanting new deals done before contracts are up. This is really starting to snowball and until some teams say no and stick to their guns, this issue is about to get a lot worse moving forward.

If players can be cut then players can hold out. The 5th year option is basically a cheaper way of tagging a rookie for another year.

In Zach Martin's case we had no choice because our GM had no back up plan for Martin and could not anticipate it happening. Even though O'Cyrus was sitting their staring us in the face in round 2 and we drafted Schoonmaker.

If we drafted O'Cyrus he would not have held out and or we could have traded him.

 

[thunderpimp91]

My point exactly!!!! So what stops Ceedee for example to make 30+ million, then in 3 years, he says I'm not making enough, I want more money

What stops a player from doing this is a GMs ability to call their bluff and/or structure a deal properly on the front end. Teams need to not be afraid to cut/trade a player at times instead of caving to contract demands. No trade/no franchise clauses should only be given when a player is willing to take a lower rate. This really is the advantage that large market teams in the NFL have but really dont use to their advantage. You want to be a Cowboys and get the bump in jersey sales and endorsement deals? You want to be a name that pops up in the national media on a daily/weekly basis? You want an advantage to get a media job after football? Lets figure out a reasonable contract for both sides and If not you can get traded to Jacksonville or Cleveland.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I was listening to Mike Florio and on the show they were discussing Jordan Love currently due to get paid about 11 million and how there is no way he will play under that.

I often hear how this player is far outproducing his contract.

It seems no players actually play under the 5th year option.

So this brings me to my question. What is the point of having a CBA that spells out the rules teams can play by. The players agreed to the CBA. So why dont teams play hardball? I am loving what the niners are doing with Aiyuk. Every player that signs does not mean they should get top 5 money at their position.So if he doesnt want to play this year, while hes under contract, PLEASE.... let him suffer the fines and then not play and lose a year's salary.

If I ran the Cowboys, or any team fo rthat matter, I simply would not renegotiate these deals. Zack Martin last year? Not a chance in hell Id have given him more money. Any why would the team that holds to a contract be the bad guy? How are you supposed to deal with the salary cap when agents and players are constantly wanting new deals done before contracts are up. This is really starting to snowball and until some teams say no and stick to their guns, this issue is about to get a lot worse moving forward.

its give and take.

he has to play to qualify for his 5th year, except he doesn't have to play all the games (I think he can only miss 6 games).

and then the player is taking a risk. holding out for money. but then he doesn't play. comes in cold. under performs, so its going to cost him more money and it may make it difficult to negotiate with due to reputation of holding out.

teams can play hardball. but also, signing a player a year earlier, if you think he is worth it, saves money and cost less. every year the price goes up and if you like the player and he goes into FA, then you are competing.
teams also have the option to franchise which saves on average salary perhaps, but its a big lump sum hit on the cap for one year.

 

[KingintheNorth]

Why do fans takes the sides of billionaires over millionaires?

When a team cuts a player before the end of their contract isn't that the team not "honoring the contract?"

I know, you are going to say the player underperformed.

So when a player feels they have overperformed and want a contract that reflects that, they hold out, get fined for it, and the fan base screams they are not honoring their deal.

 

[McKDaddy]

All the more reason for contracts to be less "fixed" salary & more "play dependent" salary. A player like Love who is entering second season as a starting QB & who clearly played pretty well last year shouldn't be getting paid $11M\year. Purdy sure shouldn't be making less than a million. Something more in the 25M -30M seems equitable and they are both happy to keep showing up for work til time to discuss a new contract. That's fair and negates all this posturing & playing the system.

 

[Chasing6]

What stops a player from doing this is a GMs ability to call their bluff and/or structure a deal properly on the front end. Teams need to not be afraid to cut/trade a player at times instead of caving to contract demands. No trade/no franchise clauses should only be given when a player is willing to take a lower rate. This really is the advantage that large market teams in the NFL have but really dont use to their advantage. You want to be a Cowboys and get the bump in jersey sales and endorsement deals? You want to be a name that pops up in the national media on a daily/weekly basis? You want an advantage to get a media job after football? Lets figure out a reasonable contract for both sides and If not you can get traded to Jacksonville or Cleveland.

As well as player depth. Niners just drafted a WR in round 1, so they are not held hostage to Aiyuk.

That is how real GM's handle their business.

Aiyuk does not have the leverage and now will most likely be traded. Once he finds out what trade partners are willing to pay, he has a decision to make.

 

[KingCorcoran]

Why do fans takes the sides of billionaires over millionaires?

When a team cuts a player before the end of their contract isn't that the team not "honoring the contract?"

I know, you are going to say the player underperformed.

So when a player feels they have overperformed and want a contract that reflects that, they hold out, get fined for it, and the fan base screams they are not honoring their deal.

If the contract allows the player to be cut and the team cuts the player it equals “honoring the contract”. There is a collectively bargained contract between the owners of the NFL and the players’ union. Any violations of the tenets of the agreement by either side has agreed to built-in remedies up to and including differences being settled by a Federal Labor Board. The players have protection under the terms of the agreement and so do the owners. How owners and players conduct themselves is their business as long as it does not violate the terms of the agreement. “Hold outs” are addressed in the CBA as are stipulations for ”cutting” a player. Both are legitimate processes in the business of the NFL. Fans can walk away from the NFL is they take issue with the agreement between the players and owners. In short, it’s none of a fan’s business.

 

[KingintheNorth]

If the contract allows the player to be cut and the team cuts the player it equals “honoring the contract”. There is a collectively bargained contract between the owners of the NFL and the players’ union. Any violations of the tenets of the agreement by either side has agreed to built-in remedies up to and including differences being settled by a Federal Labor Board. The players have protection under the terms of the agreement and so do the owners. How owners and players conduct themselves is their business as long as it does not violate the terms of the agreement. “Hold outs” are addressed in the CBA as are stipulations for ”cutting” a player. Both are legitimate processes in the business of the NFL. Fans can walk away from the NFL is they take issue with the agreement between the players and owners. In short, it’s none of a fan’s business.

Well said.

I just never understood why so many fans generally take the sides of the Owners both in individual contract situations and when the CBA is up, or about to be up.

 

[MyFairLady]

If a player sucks the team has the right to cut them. If a player is great they have the right to hold out for more money. There is nothing wrong with the system. Parsons and CeeDee should 100% refuse to play without extensions. The only time it is a problem is if you are constantly paying out players who are not worthy of being your highest paid players. Dez and Zeke and Jaylon and D Flaw are text book examples of what I would consider major mistakes that had all the red flags and could have been avoided. Zack Martin last year absolutely a mistake. Hopefully CeeDee and Parsons prove to be worth it. Only time will tell.

 

[DallasMike]

If players can be cut then players can hold out. The 5th year option is basically a cheaper way of tagging a rookie for another year.

In Zach Martin's case we had no choice because our GM had no back up plan for Martin and could not anticipate it happening. Even though O'Cyrus was sitting their staring us in the face in round 2 and we drafted Schoonmaker.

If we drafted O'Cyrus he would not have held out and or we could have traded him.

Our front office isn't savy enough to have this thought process. That is what separates the Cowboys and successful teams.

 

[Coogiguy03]

What stops a player from doing this is a GMs ability to call their bluff and/or structure a deal properly on the front end. Teams need to not be afraid to cut/trade a player at times instead of caving to contract demands. No trade/no franchise clauses should only be given when a player is willing to take a lower rate. This really is the advantage that large market teams in the NFL have but really dont use to their advantage. You want to be a Cowboys and get the bump in jersey sales and endorsement deals? You want to be a name that pops up in the national media on a daily/weekly basis? You want an advantage to get a media job after football? Lets figure out a reasonable contract for both sides and If not you can get traded to Jacksonville or Cleveland.

FRONT LOAD, I stopped right there! Why don't they do this? They wait until the end and load it so a player is making 59 million in one year, do it early while the player is still deserving of it

 

[John813]

Minor nitpick, but Love isn't playing under his 5th year option. They agreed to a new contract in 2023 that replaced the option year this year.
https://overthecap.com/packers-and-jordan-love-agree-to-new-contract

The CBA allows players the right to ask for an extension after 3 years. Both sides agreed to that.
Some players are worth more than the option, less than, or right around that option.

Love plays a position that AAV is just under 5 times the cap hit this year.
His agent should be wanting a new deal for his client.

Love may holdout, and eat the fines. But he plays a position where if Green Bay doesn't pay him, they can either have an unhappy QB, now on the Franchise tag, or let him walk and another team pays him.
The player, due to his position, and last year play, holds a lot of the cards too.

Dallas could of not paid Martin, which I was fine with. He also could of retired or not reported and now the team would be missing it's AP Right Guard. Or maybe he could of come back at some point to get "credit" for the year.

 

[John813]

FRONT LOAD, I stopped right there! Why don't they do this? They wait until the end and load it so a player is making 59 million in one year, do it early while the player is still deserving of it

God no.

The cap will rise every year.

59 mil with a 220 cap is 26.8% of the cap.
59 mil with a 300 mil cap, say 4 years later, is 19.6% of the cap. And for most positions, 3-4 years later their play declines and have no more guarantees, and can be cut, usually for cap savings.

Besides, cap hit does not equal salary taken home.

Dak took 75 mil when he signed his current extension in 2021. His cap hit was ~1/5th of his take home