Williams facing hazy future - Mosley - 5/24/08

[Hostile]

At one post that got quickly deleted by the author.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

At one post that got quickly deleted by the author.

why is that so funny?

 

[AdamJT13]

the other cb i don't know if it was newman or henry had the other wr. davis saw this so he went over to cover cooley.

That's hilarious.

Let's see, there's one wide receiver streaking down one side of the field, and another receiver streaking down the other side of the field, and you're saying it's OK for one safety to leave his side of the field to cover the tight end running deep on the other side of the field, but not OK for the safety who is right over the top of the tight end to stay there and cover him?

(This isn't necessarily about their actual responsibilities. I'm just trying to comprehend what it is YOU think was supposed to happen on that play.)

So, let's just imagine that Cooley had started on the offense's left side (defense's right) and was running a deep post toward the middle but was still outside the other hashes when the ball was thrown. THEN you'd think it would be OK for Roy to leave Moss and gone to cover Cooley (who was on the other side of the field), and you wouldn't blame Roy for Moss' TD? My goodness, that's some convoluted thinking.

 

[Hostile]

Did anyone read the link that Hostile posted?? Seriously. Hos you apologized but for purposes of this thread all one has to do is read the section entitled "Safties" which clearly states a) being responsible for a receiver NOT a zone, section, quarter, etc. and b) what a vertical route is.

It could be clearer though to be truthful. That is what i was apologizing for. You actually have to do homework to grasp the point and I was hoping for something that made it crystal clear with no questions asked.

 

[WDN]

At one post that got quickly deleted by the author.

This is all I need to know.

 

[Rampage]

That's hilarious.

Let's see, there's one wide receiver streaking down one side of the field, and another receiver streaking down the other side of the field, and you're saying it's OK for one safety to leave his side of the field to cover the tight end running deep on the other side of the field, but not OK for the safety who is right over the top of the tight end to stay there and cover him?

(This isn't necessarily about their actual responsibilities. I'm just trying to comprehend what it is YOU think was supposed to happen on that play.)

So, let's just imagine that Cooley had started on the offense's left side (defense's right) and was running a deep post toward the middle but was still outside the other hashes when the ball was thrown. THEN you'd think it would be OK for Roy to leave Moss and gone to cover Cooley (who was on the other side of the field), and you wouldn't blame Roy for Moss' TD? My goodness, that's some convoluted thinking.

who was the other wr?

 

[28 Joker]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2005/08/15/ramblings/strategy-minicamps/2765/

Quarters coverage is a zone coverage. It's called cover-4. Four defenders are responsible for covering 4 equally divided quarters or deep quarters of the field. Also, the two defenders can take up one quarter, so a dangerous player can be doubled. This is called quarter-quarter-half.

I don't know how you can justify not putting both those TDs Santana Moss scored against Dallas on Roy Williams. Aaron Glenn may share the blame, too.

In quarters coverage, there are usually three underneath defenders and four deep. On fourth and 15, Roy Williams let the fastest player on the Commanders close too fast on him and threaten the corner closest to him. As a result of him not paying attention to their fastest player running right at him, he was burned. Look at Glenn's reaction after the 39 yarder. Before that play, Williams dropped a pick right in his hands. It hit him in the facemask. On the very next play, Williams' poor instincts and reaction cost Dallas 6.

On the 70 yarder, Moss ended up one-on-one with Williams and burned him again. Glenn may carry some blame on that one, but "Pro Bowl" safeties shouldn't get beat twice in one game with the game on the line, much less by the same player. He didn't learn the first time and let Moss get behind him again.

James Hasty, on NFL Live, broke down the first TD to Moss and blamed Williams for not paying attention to Moss bearing down right on top of him and the corner closest to him. Williams was too busy looking at guys being covered. The underneath guy running from his left to right was blanketed. He came open after the ball was already launched by Brunell.

 

[TheCount]

On the 70 yarder, Moss ended up one-on-one with Williams and burned him again.

What percentage of the strong safties in the NFL wouldn't get burned by Santana Moss, one on one?

I tend to lean towards the belief that this is actually exactly what Woodson was talking about. Roy did what he was supposed to do, his responsibility was clear and he did what he was told to do in that situation.

What Woody is saying is that he didn't prepare him well enough for a situation where doing exactly what you're supposed to do may not be the right thing to do.

The fact of the matter is that it was a well designed play, that does happen.

 

[AdamJT13]

same here. how do you know they run it differently adam?

Because Parcells explained it. And he explained it for a different play in a different game, when it wasn't even Roy's side of the field.

 

[AbeBeta]

Why does he work for Roy? Because he's pointing out that most fans have no idea what's going on, regardless of whether they've been a fan since they were in diapers?

It is more about how this Roy issue seems to be the thing he posts about most of the time. Frankly, it is one of the only times you'll see him engage posters in this regard.

 

[AdamJT13]

Quarters coverage is a zone coverage.

Not the way we run it or a lot of other teams run it. Read Hostile's link. Watch the video at the link that was posted. I have another explanation of the coverage from a premium site, or I'd post it. I'll see if I can find other descriptions of how it's run.

I don't know how you can justify not putting both those TDs Santana Moss scored against Dallas on Roy Williams.

Because Moss wasn't Roy's responsibility. The players and coaches involved explained that after it happened.

James Hasty, on NFL Live, broke down the first TD to Moss and blamed Williams

Did Hasty know what the coverage was and what Roy's responsibilties were? If he thought it was Cover 2 or prevent, then he might think Roy was to blame. But that wasn't the case.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

It is more about how this Roy issue seems to be the thing he posts about most of the time. Frankly, it is one of the only times you'll see him engage posters in this regard.

why do you care?

Adam, is 4-quarters a man coverage because once the WR gets into your area, you have to stick w/ him? instead of being in a zone, where you just let him run by you?

 

[AbeBeta]

why do you care?

Why do you care that I care?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Why do you care that I care?

just call me mildly curious

 

[Rampage]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2005/08/15/ramblings/strategy-minicamps/2765/

Quarters coverage is a zone coverage. It's called cover-4. Four defenders are responsible for covering 4 equally divided quarters or deep quarters of the field. Also, the two defenders can take up one quarter, so a dangerous player can be doubled. This is called quarter-quarter-half.

I don't know how you can justify not putting both those TDs Santana Moss scored against Dallas on Roy Williams. Aaron Glenn may share the blame, too.

In quarters coverage, there are usually three underneath defenders and four deep. On fourth and 15, Roy Williams let the fastest player on the Commanders close too fast on him and threaten the corner closest to him. As a result of him not paying attention to their fastest player running right at him, he was burned. Look at Glenn's reaction after the 39 yarder. Before that play, Williams dropped a pick right in his hands. It hit him in the facemask. On the very next play, Williams' poor instincts and reaction cost Dallas 6.

On the 70 yarder, Moss ended up one-on-one with Williams and burned him again. Glenn may carry some blame on that one, but "Pro Bowl" safeties shouldn't get beat twice in one game with the game on the line, much less by the same player. He didn't learn the first time and let Moss get behind him again.

James Hasty, on NFL Live, broke down the first TD to Moss and blamed Williams for not paying attention to Moss bearing down right on top of him and the corner closest to him. Williams was too busy looking at guys being covered. The underneath guy running from his left to right was blanketed. He came open after the ball was already launched by Brunell.

hey Adam, don't you think parcells/zimmer woulda told him to keep an eye on moss and to not let the skins fastest wr get behind him?

 

[bbgun]

We lost that game because of Bill. True to his nature, "Mr. Conservative" treated 14 points as an insurmountable lead, and our two-minute offense at the end of the game was comically inept. Roy was merely an accessory to the crime.

 

[28 Joker]

AdamTJ13,

I do respect you, but how can a safety playing deep not have deep coverage responsibility? Williams was the last line of defense back there. Glenn was playing the sideline with inside help from Williams. The problem was the help was burned. How can a safety not be responsible for a receiver running right at him or his area? When on the previous play, Brunell threw into triple coverage and Williams was back there and let the ball go right through his hands and into his facemask.

Roy gave up 5 TDs last year, and he was kept out of deep coverage for a reason. There is a reason he was being taken out on third down or passing downs. Williams' poor attitude and dubious work ethic is going to see him out of the league soon if he doesn't change his ways. Going on vacation during OTAs isn't a confidence builder to the average fan or his teammates. Is DeMarcus Ware on vacation?

What about Jeremy Stevens burning him twice in the Seattle playoff game?

What about the "Peter Pan" on Shaun Alexander in the playoff game with the game on the line?

What about him isolated with Steve Smith in the divisional playoff game, in zone, after Newman passes Smith off to him? That was a coaching mistake. I guess Smith smoking him wasn't his fault, either.

What about his ability to break his own horse-collar rule? How many ankles is he going to break?

What about his very poor insticts and recognition skills and angles when tracking the ball in the air and on the ground?

What about his weight? Polamalu weighs 207, and Williams is 230.

Go back and look at the T.J. Duckett long run this year at Detroit. Roy was the eighth defender in the box and the last line of defense. He totally misread the play. He completely whiffed on a goal-line TD in the same game.

Williams is slow of foot and his reactions are slow. That spells busts and burned. Zero (0) tackles for loss, Zero (0) forced fumbles, and Zero (0) sacks. That is what Roy produced "while playing closer to the line". By the end of the year, he looked liked Raggedy Ann when blitzing. He quit even trying to get by the guy blocking him.

What about his pitter-patter pursuit and poor angle to the football on the Amonte Toomer TD? His Pete Rose slide was just swell. There is nothing like settling for the triple. He didn't hustle. He could have at least chased the guy. He gave up in a divisional playoff game.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/andrew_perloff/09/21/huddle.roy.williams/index.html

This guy talks about the 2005 Commander game, and he tells you exactly why players like Reed, Palamalu, Brown, Dawkins, and Harrison are clearly better players. You can throw in the late Shaun Taylor as far as I'm concerned.

Do they come off the field on passing downs?

Safeties should be able to cover deep. In 2004 and 2005 and 2006 Williams looked terrible doing it. Playing Williams deep with Keith Davis (another strong safety) was a disaster. The safety position held Parcells hostage.

Getting Williams out of deep coverage and Ken Hamlin in deep coverage is a major reason Dallas didn't give up bombs this past year.

 

[28 Joker]

"I saw Moss blaze down the seam. I wasn't able to take the right position. I should have read it faster and taken the proper angle. I take all the blame".

Roy Williams ( on the two Santana Moss TDs)

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/Commanders/2005-09-20-redskins_x.htm

 

[Rampage]

"I saw Moss blaze down the seam. I wasn't able to take the right position. I should have read it faster and taken the proper angle. I take all the blame".

Roy Williams ( on the two Santana Moss TDs)

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/Commanders/2005-09-20-redskins_x.htm

no way man. that's just another myth

 

[firehawk350]

Well, the good news is he takes blame, which I heard somebody on this thread say they'd cut him some slack if he did....