Zeke or Jalen Ramsey 2 years later

[Portnoy1]

Yes. There's no way to know. And as much as I hated the pick, Elliott is a hell of a football player, all around. He's a terrific pass blocker (SEA aside). He never fumbles, and I didn't account for his ability to perk up the players around him on offense. He's a football playing dude.

It just kills me to see this team needing defensive help so badly and not doing the obvious things it needs to do to get it. That's an organizational failure from Jerry on down. And I've been *****ing about it since long before 2014 and 2016 where, had we actually address the problem seriously, who knows where the team might have ended up? Both those seasons we had an awful lot of what you need to win playoff football games.

The issue on D is that the cowboys have made questionable choices on D and mainly started in 2015.
Byron Jones
Randy Gregory
Jaylon Smith.
Replace those guys in the draft 15-16' draft and I'm sure you have a better D.

 

[Jason 82 Witten]

Find them.

Why should I find them, I didn’t say that

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Zeke is a legitimate generational talent. Ramsey is a top tier corner, but not an all-time great. In my opinion, the only argument for taking Ramsey over Zeke is that Ramsey plays a more impactful position where it is more difficult to find good talent, which is a perfectly valid stance.

Ramsey is already a top NFL CB. It is a scarcer position with more demand. Personally I see the marginal difference in talent at their relative positions to be completely mitigated by Elliott's character. Throw in their position and it is a no brainer.

What a draft though. Loaded top of the first and the pundits were saying it was weak at the top but deep.

 

[wssaustin]

Ramsey and Jordan Howard?

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[gmoney112]

Jalen does have the benefit of playing on one of the best defenses in the NFL.

Sure, CB is higher value in this league, but this is going to be one of those that you have to judge after their careers. There's just too many variables right now to say who was a better pick for us.

For instance, If Zeke wins a Super Bowl MVP, no one's going to be ruing Jalen.

So it goes.

 

[lk8701]

Ramsey was the right call at the time, no doubt about it. We got lucky with the DBs, sort of, this season, but should never have been in a position where 4 starters walked and we had to replace them all in one draft. That's just bad team management, and would have been worse had Anthony Brown not panned out as a 6th rounder that same year. Can you imagine?

Plus, Zeke plays a position that can readily be filled in rounds 2-4. And he was known to have character questions coming out, which did in fact bite us. I'm not absolving Goodell for that witch hunt, but Elliott had no business being in that situation to begin with.

Agree 100%. RBs can always be found later on. Jordan Howard was drafted in the 5th round in 2016. Dalvin Cook - 2nd round, Kareem Hunt - 3rd round, and Kamara -3rd round.

 

[JD_KaPow]

He was asking for basically the same contract EE got and he would have had a great year in 2015 if he stayed. He also would most likely have less wear if stayed, and he really didn't look bad this year he split snaps with a younger talented back and that will help prolong his career. Resigning Murray would have been the best move for both the short and long term future of this team. We don't have the cluster**** that 2015 was with Joseph Randell. We would have the best CB in the league and we'd be looking for a fresh RB last year this year or next year.

Should have resigned him.

Less wear? Seriously? We gave him 392 regular-season carries in 2014. He had 193 carries in 2015 with the Eagles, and fewer carries than Zeke in 2016. You think he would have had a lighter load if he stayed? No chance at all. I consider it far more likely that he would have broken down in 2015 for us, or that this year's decline would've shown up a year earlier.

"Really didn't look bad this year"? Seriously? In games they both played in this year, Murray averaged 3.6 ypc and Henry averaged 4.7. Compare that to last year, when they were at 4.4 and 4.5 respectively. And of course, Murray's missing the playoffs (so far) with injury.

Re-signing Murray would have been an awful decision.

 

[lk8701]

Ramsey and Jordan Howard?

Exactly Howard went in the 5th round. We could have taken him instead of Tapper in 2016. We also had plenty of options in 2017 Dalvin Cook -2nd round, Kareem Hunt - 3rd round, and Kamara - 3rd round.

 

[Blackthorn]

It's been 2 full seasons (minus a bogus 6 game suspension)! Zeke won a rushing title his rookie year and probably would've won a second consecutive rushing title had he not served a 6 game suspension in the middle of the season.

Jalen Ramsey is considered to be a top corner in the National Football League and typically covers the #1 WR on the opposing team.

The Cowboys had an opportunity to draft either player 2 years ago and selected Zeke. At the time I really wanted Jalen Ramsey; however, I'm a bit torn now. I think Zeke is extremely important to this team (probably more important than most people think). With the emergence of Chidobe Awuzie, Jourdan Lewis, and Anthony Brown - I feel pretty 'ok' with our secondary, but Ramsey/Awuzie/Lewis & possibly Brown would be stellar in my opinion.

What are your thoughts?

Man that is a tough question. I typically do not want Dallas to draft a running back within the first 4 rounds. That is a position that has been devalued over the years. I am a firm believer in drafting O-line and Dline in the first round. I think the game is won in the trenches. Then the middle of the D has to be addressed, Mike LB, Safety.

During the 16 draft the two elite QBs were picked. Then Bosa was selected. Dallas was solid at O-line and on my board I had Stanly ranked higher than Ramsey and Elliot. I was wanting Dallas to trade back because I was not comfortable with either Ramsey or Elliott. I was not as high on Ramsey as everyone else (which he proved me wrong) and as I stated before I would not draft a RB in the first 4 rounds. I also don't think the team should pass on an elite player.

After Elliot was drafted and he performed so well I came to realise he may be a once in a decade type RB and my philosophy may be flawed. Dallas has an option with Elliot that would give him a 5 year contract out of the gate. Then the Boys can franchise him twice and the team can ride him for a total of 7 years until he is ran in the ground. Most elite RBs are not elite after year 7.

Dallas drafted A. Brown last year and he was the best CB on the team. This year they drafted a whole new regime and A. Brown lost his starting role. My, how times have changed. Dallas was ranked #8 this season on the D-side of the ball. So, I guess Dallas made the correct choice.

Hindsight is 20/20.

After the drama with Zeke and his shenanigans, he has me 2nd guessing. Ramsey's elite level also has me second guessing.

I hope the team made the correct choice. Zeke is a game changer.

 

[rkell87]

Less wear? Seriously? We have him 392 regular-season carries in 2014. He had 193 carries in 2015 with the Eagles, and fewer carries than Zeke in 2016. You think he would have had a lighter load if he stayed? No chance at all. I consider it far more likely that he would have broken down in 2015 for us, or that this year's decline would've shown up a year earlier.

"Really didn't look bad this year"? Seriously? In games they both played in this year, Murray averaged 3.6 ypc and Henry averaged 4.7. Compare that to last year, when they were at 4.4 and 4.5 respectively. And of course, Murray's missing the playoffs (so far) with injury.

Re-signing Murray would have been an awful decision.

No but that's not the point. He'd be here, in the offense that he won a rushing title with. Literally everything you're saying means nothing to anyone because he didn't stay here if he did it would've been better, everything that he's done since then doesn't matter because he's not here do you understand probably not but I just hope you do.

Re-signing Murray would've been the best decision for this franchise to have made.

 

[Idgit]

The issue on D is that the cowboys have made questionable choices on D and mainly started in 2015.
Byron Jones
Randy Gregory
Jaylon Smith.
Replace those guys in the draft 15-16' draft and I'm sure you have a better D.

Let's throw Mo in there too, just for fun. But Gregory and Jaylon were the unnecessary risks when there were less risky options available. And, yeah, not hitting on the guys you do take on that side of the ball hurts when two thirds of your resources are devoted to the other side of the ball. And it gets us beat when we play good teams. And then the fans blame the offensive play calling for whatever reason.

 

[lk8701]

The issue on D is that the cowboys have made questionable choices on D and mainly started in 2015.
Byron Jones
Randy Gregory
Jaylon Smith.
Replace those guys in the draft 15-16' draft and I'm sure you have a better D.

Byron Jones over Landon Collins
Randy Gregory over Danielle Hunter
Jaylon Smith over Myles Jack
Taco over Budda Baker

 

[Bigtex67]

There are a ton of things to consider, but I think I'd stay with Zeke for this particular team.

1) He fits and is crucial to our offensive philosophy (I don't love our 90's offense either, but it is what it is).
2) Zeke was wayyy better year 1 than Ramsey. He was a big part of that playoff run, we just ran into one of the most elite players at the most elite position having one of his best games.
3) We drafted 2 good young CB's this year, which mitigates the opportunity cost.
4) If we want to sign Zeke to a 2nd generation contract, it will cost about 1/2 the $'s per year of what Ramsey will cost. You could argue that means CB is more valuable, but pretty soon the Jags are going to sign that kid to an albatross of a contract if they want to keep him.

Excellent Points. (Sorry Cannot Like Yet)

 

[Sydla]

It's all about the style of offense a team chooses to run. A team that throws 65% of the time doesn't need an elite RB. A team that wants to control the clock and tempo and force defenses to focus less on stopping the pass requires an elite RB. There isn't a once size fits all for every offense.

I don’t think a team that wants to control the clock needs an elite RB. Nor do they have to automatically use a Top 5 pick to get one.

You built an elite OL. You didn’t need a generational TB. You just need a good one and then a big time defense.

 

[Sydla]

Show the posts saying I would have Ramsey after Zeke won the rushing title last year

You are the one who made the allegation.

It’s up to you to prove it.

 

[RomoFor6]

Zeke easily. Impacts the game way more.

 

[Sydla]

Jalen does have the benefit of playing on one of the best defenses in the NFL.

Sure, CB is higher value in this league, but this is going to be one of those that you have to judge after their careers. There's just too many variables right now to say who was a better pick for us.

For instance, If Zeke wins a Super Bowl MVP, no one's going to be ruing Jalen.

So it goes.

Using that logic, Elliott ran behind an elite OL in 2016.

 

[JustChip]

It's been 2 full seasons (minus a bogus 6 game suspension)! Zeke won a rushing title his rookie year and probably would've won a second consecutive rushing title had he not served a 6 game suspension in the middle of the season.

Jalen Ramsey is considered to be a top corner in the National Football League and typically covers the #1 WR on the opposing team.

The Cowboys had an opportunity to draft either player 2 years ago and selected Zeke. At the time I really wanted Jalen Ramsey; however, I'm a bit torn now. I think Zeke is extremely important to this team (probably more important than most people think). With the emergence of Chidobe Awuzie, Jourdan Lewis, and Anthony Brown - I feel pretty 'ok' with our secondary, but Ramsey/Awuzie/Lewis & possibly Brown would be stellar in my opinion.

What are your thoughts?

I wanted Ramsey at that time, mainly because the defense was what had been holding us back for years. But I wasn't upset with the Zeke pick. Sitting here 2 years later having the value of hindsight, I am glad we picked Zeke, even with his baggage. Part of that is because of what happened with Romo.

Similarly, I'm not going to sit here today and say I railed on the Gregory pick at the time. I thought it was a good risk/reward for the 2nd round. It hasn't worked out so far and may not, but it was worth a shot. Now, I was not on board with Jaylon Smith, especially following on Gregory. By all accounts, he's an outstanding individual and has come back to contribute, but the loss of 1 full year of productivity was a show stopper for me.

 

[TheCount]

I didn't like, and still don't like, the idea of a RB at #4.

Zeke is a good back that could be great, but Jalen is a good DB that could be great and a great DB is more valuable than a great RB.

 

[Sydla]

Byron Jones over Landon Collins
Randy Gregory over Danielle Hunter
Jaylon Smith over Myles Jack
Taco over Budda Baker

Jack is a SAM LB after he didn’t work out at WILL and MIKE.

Not sure I am ruing the loss of Jack. If I am using hindsight, we should have taken Ragland or even Hunter Henry.