Zeke vs other top RBs

[TwoDeep3]

forget the stats, how would you rank the top 5?

1. Zeke
2. Zeke
3. Zeke
4. Zeke
5. Everyone else.

 

[Nightman]

Elliott has a ton of short yardage conversion, over 20 I think......I'm biased but I go

Zeke
Bell
DJohnson
McCoy

Howard/Ajayi/Gurley


Lacy/Hill/Sproles

 

[Thomas82]

Are defenses keying on him like 8 in a box?

I don't think so, especially with Terrelle Pryor and Corey Coleman on the outside.

 

[vicjagger]

Well obviously no one is in Ajayi's league.

 

[xwalker]

Here are the YPC stats for the top RBs for this season.
Zeke is listed as #6.
How would you rate/order these running backs in terms of their 'pure' running ability (not YPC) and why?

1 Ajayi, Jay MIA 6.4
2 McCoy, LeSean BUF 5.3
3 Washington, DeAndre OAK 5.1
4 Howard, Jordan CHI 5.1
5 Lacy, Eddie GB 5.1
6 Elliott, Ezekiel DAL 5.0
7 Ware, Spencer KC 5.0
8 Bell, Le'Veon PIT 5.0
9 Sproles, Darren PHI 5.0
10 Hill, Jeremy CIN 5.0

Good question.

YPC does not mean much to me. YPC is boosted by long runs which are great, but the primary job of the RB in terms of rushing is much more about situational performance than total yardage or ypc.

The ypc numbers also don't mean much because short yardage situations decrease ypc. You could have the greatest short yardage RB ever, and his ypc would be low.

Some type of Success Rate definition would be better than ypc.

The following could be the stats for 2 RBs on 1st-and-10. The one with the lower average is likely to be better.

RB1 ypc = 7 (80, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -2)

RB2 ypc = 4 (4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4)

RB2 consistently keeps his offense in a good down and distance for 2nd down while RB1 keeps his offense in a bad position except for 1 time.

The top scoring offenses generally have about 400 total yards with about 300 passing and 100 rushing. A 20% improvement in rushing yards would be 20 extra yards while a 20% improvement in passing yards would be 60 extra yards; therefore, the focus of rushing should be on converting 1st downs and scoring on short yardage while passing is more focused on racking up yards. Rushing will also help passing by forcing pass rushers to defend the run, forcing defenses to limit snaps for smallish pass rushers in favor of run defenders and playing a Safety in the box instead of in pass coverage. Rushing also helps with intangible issues like wearing down the defense physically and emotionally.

Having said all of that, it becomes too complicated (for fans) to define define it statistically; therefore, we just have to go by watching the games to rate the RBs.
1. EE
2. Bell

 

[waldoputty]

Elliott has a ton of short yardage conversion, over 20 I think......I'm biased but I go

Zeke
Bell
DJohnson
McCoy

Howard/Ajayi/Gurley


Lacy/Hill/Sproles

So you dont care much for Ajayi and his YPC...
I have not seen him play myself

 

[waldoputty]

Well obviously no one is in Ajayi's league.

I have not seen him play myself
Have you?

 

[waldoputty]

Good question.

YPC does not mean much to me. YPC is boosted by long runs which are great, but the primary job of the RB in terms of rushing is much more about situational performance than total yardage or ypc.

The ypc numbers also don't mean much because short yardage situations decrease ypc. You could have the greatest short yardage RB ever, and his ypc would be low.

Some type of Success Rate definition would be better than ypc.

The following could be the stats for 2 RBs on 1st-and-10. The one with the lower average is likely to be better.

RB1 ypc = 7 (80, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -1, -2)

RB2 ypc = 4 (4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4)

RB2 consistently keeps his offense in a good down and distance for 2nd down while RB1 keeps his offense in a bad position except for 1 time.

The top scoring offenses generally have about 400 total yards with about 300 passing and 100 rushing. A 20% improvement in rushing yards would be 20 extra yards while a 20% improvement in passing yards would be 60 extra yards; therefore, the focus of rushing should be on converting 1st downs and scoring on short yardage while passing is more focused on racking up yards. Rushing will also help passing by forcing pass rushers to defend the run, forcing defenses to limit snaps for smallish pass rushers in favor of run defenders and playing a Safety in the box instead of in pass coverage. Rushing also helps with intangible issues like wearing down the defense physically and emotionally.

Having said all of that, it becomes too complicated (for fans) to define define it statistically; therefore, we just have to go by watching the games to rate the RBs.
1. EE
2. Bell

lol, god forbid, someone may throw lightning bolts at you soon

I actually have not seen anyone else play besides Zeke.
Who does Bell play for, Steelers?

 

[DFWJC]

Here are the YPC stats for the top RBs for this season.
Zeke is listed as #6.
How would you rate/order these running backs in terms of their 'pure' running ability (not YPC) and why?

1 Ajayi, Jay MIA 6.4
2 McCoy, LeSean BUF 5.3
3 Washington, DeAndre OAK 5.1
4 Howard, Jordan CHI 5.1
5 Lacy, Eddie GB 5.1
6 Elliott, Ezekiel DAL 5.0
7 Ware, Spencer KC 5.0
8 Bell, Le'Veon PIT 5.0
9 Sproles, Darren PHI 5.0
10 Hill, Jeremy CIN 5.0

I'll take Zeke anyway. That dude is built for the long haul.

You could also ask how would those backs do in the Dallas offense. The answer would be better than they're already are doing, but not sure just how much better
And not to stir the pot, but you'll notice not one of those players were 1st rounders.
Zeke IS a beast though

 

[Macnalty]

I have seen Ajayi play a couple of times this year I would swear he had some longer runs, he has come out of his shell, he was not awesome at the beginning of the year. Maybe it is Tunsil starting to get some of the Rookie pixie dust off.

1.Zeke he is one tier above most of these guys and a nightmare for teams to prepare a defense.
2.DeMarco Murray looks like a couple of years ago long runs and lots of dirty yards
3.McCoy when healthy sometimes spectacular
4.Bell looking better as he shakes of his four game suspension grime
5.Jay Ajayi/Isaiah Crowell/Melvin Gordon

 

[waldoputty]

I'll take Zeke anyway. That dude is built for the long haul.

You could also ask how would those back do in the Dallas offense. The answer would be better than already are doing, but not sure just how much better
And not to stir the pot, but you'll notice not one of those players were 1st rounders.
Zeke IS a beast though

yes it is quite possible to get a good rb after the 1st round - no argument from me.

have you seen the other guys play?

 

[waldoputty]

I have seen Ajayi play a couple of times this year I would swear he had some longer runs, he has come out of his shell, he was not awesome at the beginning of the year. Maybe it is Tunsil starting to get some of the Rookie pixie dust off.

1.Zeke he is one tier above most of these guys and a nightmare for teams to prepare a defense.
2.DeMarco Murray looks like a couple of years ago long runs and lots of dirty yards
3.McCoy when healthy sometimes spectacular
4.Bell looking better as he shakes of his four game suspension grime
5.Jay Ajayi/Isaiah Crowell/Melvin Gordon

how would you rate them in terms of:
1. breakaway speed
2. wiggle
3. vision
4. toughness
5. ability to flatten the defender
6. anything else?

 

[FiveTime]

obviously those backs have all got something special going on but Zeke's strengths lie in his vision and versatility, he does it all and threatens all areas. Other than McCoy I haven't seen enough of those other RBs to make a fair comparison,,, and even then there will always be tradeoffs. Shady has kicked arse for many years now and any team would be lucky to have him, though he won't get you the dirty yards that Zeke will.

I think filthy pigsty yards might be a better term than dirty yards for Zeke.

 

[mattjames2010]

I'm going to wait and see how Ajayi plays this week. If he has another big game (Won't be another 200), I'll probably put him at #1. He's reminding me a lot like Lynch with a little more burst and that's a pretty incredible comparison.

We'll see if his last two games were fluky or not. I'll also see what Zeke does this week, it looks like he's on the verge of having himself a 200+ yard game, so I'm waiting for that one huge game from him still.

 

[Trouty]

Surprised to not see Gurley on anybody's list. He has faced 8 man boxes all season. Every team knows he is the Rams offense. With that said, this is a "show me now" league, so I get it. But his raw potential, and his rookie season, are/were phenomenal.

Lacy is done. He's gained the weight back that he had lost (rampant rumors of alcoholism). He started nice but has fallen off. Ajayi has flashed for two games, for damn sure, but I want to see more. Latavius Murray is a beast in OAK. Devonta Freeman is a beast in ATL. Blount in NE is the new "Beast Mode". So many good rushers in the league right now. Demarco Murray is playing with a chip on his shoulder and has had 4 100 yd games and is still a machine. Mariota gushes over his impact and skill. McCoy's clock is ticking, but he's been a machine this year, as well.

But @xwalker nailed it

1. Zeke the Freak
2. Le'Veon Bell
3. The rest.

ETA -- honorable mention to Washington (OAK), he has done nothing but be a machine since preseason. Carr is making it very easy for him, tho, since teams have to scheme the pass when going up against them.

 

[mattjames2010]

So you dont care much for Ajayi and his YPC...
I have not seen him play myself

Back to back 200 yard games is nothing to sneeze at. But it could still be fluky and he may come back down to Earth this week (I think the Dolphins are playing, right?)

As for how I'd rank them

1. David Johnson (If the ground game gets shut down, he becomes a huge receiving threat)
2. Zeke (Staying healthy, consistent)
3. Murray (Like Johnson, getting it done on the ground and in the air)
4. Bell
5. McCoy (Would have been my #1, but injury got him
6. Ajayi (May shoot up to #1)

 

[mattjames2010]

Surprised to not see Gurley on anybody's list. He has faced 8 man boxes all season. Every team knows he is the Rams offense. With that said, this is a "show me now" league, so I get it. But his raw potential, and his rookie season, are/were phenomenal.

Lacy is done. He's gained the weight back that he had lost (rampant rumors of alcoholism). He started nice but has fallen off. Ajayi has flashed for two games, for damn sure, but I want to see more. Latavius Murray is a beast in OAK. Devonta Freeman is a beast in ATL. Blount in NE is the new "Beast Mode". So many good rushers in the league right now. Demarco Murray is playing with a chip on his shoulder and has had 4 100 yd games and is still a machine. Mariota gushes over his impact and skill. McCoy's clock is ticking, but he's been a machine this year, as well.

But @xwalker nailed it

1. Zeke the Freak
2. Le'Veon Bell
3. The rest.

I discussed in the offseason, got into a bit of a debate over it, how Gurley really has only had 5 big games. He really fell off after his 4th big game last year and only had one more game where he topped 100 yards.

I haven't watched much of the Rams this year, however from what I've read from the Rams local writers, Gurley has also been the problem and not just the line and loading the box.

 

[DFWJC]

yes it is quite possible to get a good rb after the 1st round - no argument from me.

have you seen the other guys play?

Yes
All except Washington except for maybe 1-2 highlight carries.
McCoy is past his prime now. Still good but he's not at the level of Zeke or Bell.

The guy not on that list who is closer to Bell and Zeke's level is David Johnson.

All of those guys are in the 6'0-6'1, 220-230 range. Zeke is clocked at 4.47 though where they are more in the 4.5-4.55 range.
Sproles is a different animal. way stronger than his size might indicate but normally not considered an very down back. That may be unfair though as he's never really been used as one. He wins the "wiggle" award though. McCoy used to be there too.

Todd Gurley also not in there. He has a terrible situation with the Rams and would probably be destroying people in Dallas.
He's as big as Zek and the others, but runs about a 4.4 or even less. Does not have the vision that Zeke has, imo.

 

[Trouty]

I discussed in the offseason, got into a bit of a debate over it, how Gurley really has only had 5 big games. He really fell off after his 4th big game last year and only had one more game where he topped 100 yards.

I haven't watched much of the Rams this year, however from what I've read from the Rams local writers, Gurley has also been the problem and not just the line and loading the box.

He's been getting killed, brother (I would call you Matty, but...). He's been a problem, sure, the whole Rams O is a problem. But he is getting destroyed before he even hits the LOS. He has that raw potential, I really hope the Rams don't ruin him, Matt.

 

[Trouty]

Yes
All except Washington except for maybe 1-2 highlight carries.
McCoy is past his prime now. Still good but he's not at the level of Zeke or Bell.

The guy not on that list who is closer to Bell and Zeke's level is David Johnson.

All of those guys are in the 6'0-6'1, 220-230 range. Zeke is clocked at 4.47 though where they are more in the 4.5-4.55 range.
Sproles is a different animal. way stronger than his size might indicate but normally not considered an very down back. That may be unfair though as he's never really been used as one. He wins the "wiggle" award though. McCoy used to be there too.

Todd Gurley also not in there. He has a terrible situation with the Rams and would probably be destroying people in Dallas.
He's as big as Zek and the others, but runs about a 4.4 or even less. Does not have the vision that Zeke has, imo.

Agree with everything, JC, except Washington. He's been very solid for OAK.