Zeke vs other top RBs

[CalPolyTechnique]

Elliott has a ton of short yardage conversion, over 20 I think......I'm biased but I go

Zeke
Bell
DJohnson
McCoy

Howard/Ajayi/Gurley


Lacy/Hill/Sproles

Naaahhh?

 

[mattjames2010]

He's been getting killed, brother (I would call you Matty, but...). He's been a problem, sure, the whole Rams O is a problem. But he is getting destroyed before he even hits the LOS. He has that raw potential, I really hope the Rams don't ruin him, Matt.

With his long injury history, I still think it's inevitable injuries cut his career short. Maybe he'll be like Peterson, had injuries in high school and college but had a HOF career. We'll see.

 

[Trouty]

With his long injury history, I still think it's inevitable injuries cut his career short. Maybe he'll be like Peterson, had injuries in high school and college but had a HOF career. We'll see.

Gosh, brother, I really hope the Rams don't ruin him. As a fan of the game, he is a very unique player.

 

[DFWJC]

Agree with everything, JC, except Washington. He's been very solid for OAK.

I just meant I hadn't had a chance to see him. So I couldn't really offer anything.

 

[Nightman]

So you dont care much for Ajayi and his YPC...
I have not seen him play myself

Top 5-ish is pretty high for a guy with 2 starts..............YPC is not a very good indicator

a better but hard stat to track is Expected Points Added....every play helps a team or hurts a team in it's attempt to score.......every 6 yard run is not the same....if it is 3rd and 10 it doesn't really help......and AYPC may be even better(Adjusted Yards per Carry) than EPA

http://www.footballperspective.com/rushing-epa-and-yards-per-carry/

 

[Macnalty]

how would you rate them in terms of:
1. breakaway speed
2. wiggle
3. vision
4. toughness
5. ability to flatten the defender
6. anything else?

To worry about in the future I would only consider
1. Demarco Murray he can play smash mouth just like in 2014 Titans are playing like we are this year.
2. L Bell is getting there not fast or quick much like Arian Foster in my book when he was healthy at Houston.
3. David Johnson is a freak played at Northern Iowa very fast but not quick twitch much like Matt Forte in his prime with speed.
4. Spencer Ware is coming on strong for the chiefs I forgot about him.
This weekend we will see the best of the other guys IMO with Isaiah Crowell(Alabama St), if he had a Oline, but he does not so you will see what a difference that makes.

I am curious about Gurley as his knee should be fully functional these days, teams must be stacking the box as the QB and passing offense is suspect. If Goff starts the rest of the season, Gurley will not be worth many fantasy points IMO.

 

[stilltheguru88]

I don't understand how people can put a guy over Zeke as a cowboy (fan). Zeke is obviously on the same level as all of them so how does your guy not get the edge? Lol. No rb is clearly ahead of Zeke. It's Zeke and everyone else.

 

[Risen Star]

Here are the YPC stats for the top RBs for this season.
Zeke is listed as #6.
How would you rate/order these running backs in terms of their 'pure' running ability (not YPC) and why?

1 Ajayi, Jay MIA 6.4
2 McCoy, LeSean BUF 5.3
3 Washington, DeAndre OAK 5.1
4 Howard, Jordan CHI 5.1
5 Lacy, Eddie GB 5.1
6 Elliott, Ezekiel DAL 5.0
7 Ware, Spencer KC 5.0
8 Bell, Le'Veon PIT 5.0
9 Sproles, Darren PHI 5.0
10 Hill, Jeremy CIN 5.0

1. Zeke
2. Bell
3. McCoy
4. Howard
5. Ajayi
6. Lacy
7. Hill
8. Ware
9. Sproles
10. Washington

 

[alicetooljam]

The only reason they are all in front of me is because they all have much fewer carries than Zeke.

 

[dallasdave]

Gosh, brother, I really hope the Rams don't ruin him. As a fan of the game, he is a very unique player.

Very good player too

 

[dallasdave]

He's been getting killed, brother (I would call you Matty, but...). He's been a problem, sure, the whole Rams O is a problem. But he is getting destroyed before he even hits the LOS. He has that raw potential, I really hope the Rams don't ruin him, Matt.

 

[dallasdave]

Surprised to not see Gurley on anybody's list. He has faced 8 man boxes all season. Every team knows he is the Rams offense. With that said, this is a "show me now" league, so I get it. But his raw potential, and his rookie season, are/were phenomenal.

Lacy is done. He's gained the weight back that he had lost (rampant rumors of alcoholism). He started nice but has fallen off. Ajayi has flashed for two games, for damn sure, but I want to see more. Latavius Murray is a beast in OAK. Devonta Freeman is a beast in ATL. Blount in NE is the new "Beast Mode". So many good rushers in the league right now. Demarco Murray is playing with a chip on his shoulder and has had 4 100 yd games and is still a machine. Mariota gushes over his impact and skill. McCoy's clock is ticking, but he's been a machine this year, as well.

But @xwalker nailed it

1. Zeke the Freak
2. Le'Veon Bell
3. The rest.

ETA -- honorable mention to Washington (OAK), he has done nothing but be a machine since preseason. Carr is making it very easy for him, tho, since teams have to scheme the pass when going up against them.

ZEKE # 1

 

[AdamJT13]

Here are the YPC stats for the top RBs for this season.

Since the other thread was locked before I had a chance to respond, I'll post it here -- part of your answer to my question about defining "running ability" was "Running ability, to me, does not vary with any specific quarter of football."

So are you saying that our running ability with Elliott in the game does not vary from quarter to quarter or from game to game?

 

[waldoputty]

Since the other thread was locked before I had a chance to respond, I'll post it here -- part of your answer to my question about defining "running ability" was "Running ability, to me, does not vary with any specific quarter of football."

So are you saying that our running ability with Elliott in the game does not vary from quarter to quarter or from game to game?

Yes, I do not believe running ability varies quarter to quarter.

To me, running ability for a RB is defined by qualities like what I mentioned above such as:
1. breakaway speed - measurable
2. wiggle - mostly measurable
3. vision - mostly measurable but who is going to let you
4. toughness - hard to measure
5. ability to flatten the defender - somewhat measurable in terms of weight, weight distribution
6. decision making - hard to measure. this does improve at the beginning of a career while learning to play at NFL speed
7. probably left out a couple
8. Injuries can obviously change a RB's ability

Running ability with a team needs to include other things like OL's ability to block, QB/WR/OL ability to pass to make the defense less focused on the run. These also don't vary quarter to quarter except in the case of change in personnel and injuries.

A few other things from the other thread:

1) I mentioned this EXTREME example to make an illustrative case in the other thread of how I view rushing efficiency being used in a regression.
Goal: Evaluate whether water is important for grass to grow
Measurables: water (what you vary), grass growth
Not measuring: whether the grass is exposed to sunlight (e.g. 50% of grass kept in dark box, 50% is kept outside exposed to sun light during the day) - obviously this is the extreme analogy for defensive formation etc.
Regression result - no correlation
Mistaken analysis - water does not affect grass growth
Correct analysis - not sure if water affects grass growth because whether there is sunlight introduces a huge error in the statistical exercise

2) I made a 'defender density' argument that compares the ability to stop the run using 8-in-a-box vs. stopping the run with 8DBs. The density of defenders in the box is much higher (can be up to 10X) than defenders covering WRs running all over the field. Same reason why it is tougher to pass in the red zone.

3) I do not remember the more complex statistical models that well from many years ago, but googling did find the "errors in variable" model that accounts for errors in the independent variables. I do recall this is a complex regression subject from a graduate econometrics class. This equates things like 8-in-a-box as errors in the model. Without trying to get through all the complex theory, if the error is substantial, then the results are unpredictable, particularly for nonlinear complex models.

 

[Jarv]

Back to back 200 yard games is nothing to sneeze at. But it could still be fluky and he may come back down to Earth this week (I think the Dolphins are playing, right?)

As for how I'd rank them

1. David Johnson (If the ground game gets shut down, he becomes a huge receiving threat)
2. Zeke (Staying healthy, consistent)
3. Murray (Like Johnson, getting it done on the ground and in the air)
4. Bell
5. McCoy (Would have been my #1, but injury got him
6. Ajayi (May shoot up to #1)

Thanks for those, Ajayi looks great! Reminds me off Emmitt with his moves and first steps, balance, breaking tackles and such. Also like Emmitt in his lack of a top gear.

 

[waldoputty]

Thanks for those, Ajayi looks great! Reminds me off Emmitt with his moves and first steps, balance, breaking tackles and such. Also like Emmitt in his lack of a top gear.

I still remember wishing we picked him up when he dropped all the way down, but oh well...

 

[darthseinfeld]

Here are the YPC stats for the top RBs for this season.
Zeke is listed as #6.
How would you rate/order these running backs in terms of their 'pure' running ability (not YPC) and why?

1 Ajayi, Jay MIA 6.4
2 McCoy, LeSean BUF 5.3
3 Washington, DeAndre OAK 5.1
4 Howard, Jordan CHI 5.1
5 Lacy, Eddie GB 5.1
6 Elliott, Ezekiel DAL 5.0
7 Ware, Spencer KC 5.0
8 Bell, Le'Veon PIT 5.0
9 Sproles, Darren PHI 5.0
10 Hill, Jeremy CIN 5.0

Im shocked that many backs are over 5 YPC

 

[xwalker]

Top 5-ish is pretty high for a guy with 2 starts..............YPC is not a very good indicator

a better but hard stat to track is Expected Points Added....every play helps a team or hurts a team in it's attempt to score.......every 6 yard run is not the same....if it is 3rd and 10 it doesn't really help......and AYPC may be even better(Adjusted Yards per Carry) than EPA

http://www.footballperspective.com/rushing-epa-and-yards-per-carry/

Interesting site.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Sproles tied with Zeke at 5 yards per carry but I heard right here that Wentz has no help at all. He is the LeBron of football

Wentz made Sproles. He only has a high YPC because the defenses have to drop 9 in coverage and leave 2 to spy on Wentz.

I mean what has Sproles ever done before playing with Wentz........

 

[darthseinfeld]

I love zeke but there are other guys running extremely well too. Numbers don't tell the whole story, but they do tell a story and while he's amongst the best and arguably already the best, it's ok to acknowledge the other guys.

Shady is incredible

I think I would have to put Shady #1 right now. The NFL is inna transition period with backs now with the old elite getting well old ( AD, Charles, Forte) and some new top backs ( Elliott, Johnson, Gurley) so young they havent had the chance to really put a resume together.