Zim has to go

[hmcorp]

everyone please read this and shut up. we lost our games because of penalties bledsoe and turnovers. not the defense.

If this dallas defense is a qbs dream then why is it GROZ members that we're ranked 5th overall in lowest qb rating?

Dominate defenses chicago and baltimore have 23 and 25 sacks respectively, we have 19. Behind chicago by 4 and baltimore by 6...

i dont see a huge difference... thats less than half a sack a game behind chicago...

And Baltimore has given up more yards in the air, and more touchdowns.

Green Bay has 31 sacks, and are giving up nearly 90 qb rating...

 

[dbair1967]

everyone please read this and shut up. we lost our games because of penalties bledsoe and turnovers. not the defense.

like I said earlier...we can re-visit this in 4-6 weeks

David

 

[Cowboy4ever]

DID YOU MISS THAT I WROTE THIS?
They are asked to play run first on run downs, but once they read pass they are expected to collapse the pocket, and, if possible, get to the QB. Granted that doesn't allow for them to be pass rushing demons, but it does allow them to pressure the QB and get ocassional sacks - IF they are capable.

You spent an entire post trying to convince me of something I had already said myself, and completely missed the point that even though this defense doesn't give them the best possible opportunity to pressure the QB, neither does it take away any and every opportunity to do so.

The point is that even though they have to read whether the play is a run or pass first and that hampers them as pass rushers, they are still expected to be a factor in the pass rush and they should be able to at least contribute in that area.

You had said that they aren't even expected to put pressure on the QB and that's just plain wrong. Hell, even Parcells has publically said he wants to see more pressure from them.

No, I didn't miss what you wrote, and I tend to agree with you.. but I was refering to the post that said they didn't have the ABILITY to rush the passer. I think i quoted the wrong post.. but I don't agree that they don't have the ability,, they are handicapped from using that ability because of the scheme they are in. IF they ( the coachs) would put them in and say rush the passer first,, I think they would be good at that.. but as it is, they are there to engage the OL first and stop the run.. they do need to pick up the speed in which they transition into pass rushers.. but I know that is not an easy thing to do, and it will get better with experience.. IMO.

 

[Doomsday101]

But you gotta admit: A sack is a drive killer.
It also rattles the QB on subsequent downs.
So, in my book at least, the sack total is something we should look to increase every game.

Sure it is and I have said that we need to improve in that area. However if you look at the overall defensive play it is not bad but clearly has room for improvement. I certainly don't go along with the Zimmer must go crew and think if Parcells wanted this defense to constantly blitz then we would but he is not going to run a high risk blitz defense.

 

[Stautner]

No, I didn't miss what you wrote, and I tend to agree with you.. but I was refering to the post that said they didn't have the ABILITY to rush the passer. I think i quoted the wrong post.. but I don't agree that they don't have the ability,, they are handicapped from using that ability because of the scheme they are in. IF they ( the coachs) would put them in and say rush the passer first,, I think they would be good at that.. but as it is, they are there to engage the OL first and stop the run.. they do need to pick up the speed in which they transition into pass rushers.. but I know that is not an easy thing to do, and it will get better with experience.. IMO.

Sure the D-line could be better if they were allowed to attack first and read run second, however that just doesn't make sense to begin with, and even so I think they would be limited in what they could do anyway. These guys would be no better than average rushing the passer in any case.

They are built to be bull rushers, which helps collapse the pocket but doesn't allow for many sacks. Collapsing the pocket is really what we need from these guys more than sacks anyway, and even reading run first they should be able to have some impact in that regard.

 

[koolaid]

zimmer should be jumping in the game and batting down balls!


zimmer isnt our problem, mental mistakes by our players resulting in penaltys are.

 

[WAREWOLFE94]

It is a good defense. It is not average. It is not great either. A more consistent pass rush would elevate the defense to near greatness. Everyone will agree with that, but it is a good defense

 

[superpunk]

like I said earlier...we can re-visit this in 4-6 weeks

David

You revisit it in any post that even remotely mentions QB pressure. it's always "What your eyes see."

My eyes see that no team in the NFL pressures the QB all the time. We could be better. We are not poor. Teams like SD have racked up garbage sacks. We've been getting ours against the top half of the league, and getting pressure and forcing turnovers.

Low yardage, high turnovers - the only thing missing is sacks. That will take the defense to the next level. That will come when our young 2nd and 3rd year starters get more familiar with their roles and can stop thinking so much. This defense is very good - one of the best in the league. With better FS play we might even be saying dominant right now. The only team in the league that can claim "dominant" right now is Chicago. It's a young defense. There's still time to get to dominant and stay there.

 

[bbgun]

Originally Posted by dbair1967 View Post
like I said earlier...we can re-visit this in 4-6 weeks

Sounds like something your wife would say when you get caught staring at her sister.

 

[ravidubey]

Here's a question -- which defense this season would you like to see us emulate on the field and in the stats?

I knew you'd post a response; it was too tempting .


I'd love to see us emulate the Ravens defense on the field and could care less about the stats. How's that?

 

[AdamJT13]

I'd love to see us emulate the Ravens defense on the field

So you'd want our defense to get shredded by both the Titans and Panthers and go 1-1 instead of shutting both of them down and going 2-0?

We held those teams to a combined 28 points and a combined 433 yards, and we had a combined five sacks and six turnovers in those games.

The Ravens' defense allowed a combined 47 points and 781 yards, and they had a combined three sacks and four turnovers.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

create turnovers or defend the deep pass worth a crap.

I can see blaming Zimmer for lacking a pass-rush, but what does he have to do w/ not creating turnovers? that's an individual effort

 

[bbgun]

This defense also had the good fortune of facing two rookie quarterbacks, one of whom was making his first start ever--with predictable results. A third rookie QB (Gradkowski) will be served up on Thanksgiving. Keep padding those defensive stats, gents.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

superpunk

silverbear

Adam

you guys just owned this thread

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Good post. Dallas has room for improvement and Bill has talked about wanting to see more pressure from the guys up front

about time more people have latched onto this thought

have seen it mentioned in posts previously

the coaches can design the perfect game-plan, but it's still up to the front 7 players to win their individual battles, which rarely happens for us, esp. Canty and Spears, because the LBs in the 3-4 have to rely on their DEs to occupy blockers and defeat those blocks, cuz as we all know, in the 34, the pressure is supposed to come from the LBs

 

[ravidubey]

So you'd want our defense to get shredded by both the Titans and Panthers and go 1-1 instead of shutting both of them down and going 2-0?

We held those teams to a combined 28 points and a combined 433 yards, and we had a combined five sacks and six turnovers in those games.

The Ravens' defense allowed a combined 47 points and 781 yards, and they had a combined three sacks and four turnovers.

Every defense is going to get beat, but I'll take the Ravens over just about anyone-- the Hell with stats, but if you must have them then how about 18 interceptions, 25 sacks (including an 8 sack player), and 7 forced fumbles caused by savvy, veteran players? Guys who have done it year in and year out like Samari Rolle, Chris McAlister, and Ray Lewis.

It's not just that they get turnovers, but also when. Against the Saints Colsten burned McAlister for a 53 yard bomb, but Lewis and McAlister rose to the occasion and picked off an endzone pass on the same drive. This and other turnovers greatly helped their offense which was outmatched by the Saints defense.

I'm not slamming our team, no way-- we've had our own success, but they just haven't proven as stout as the Ravens have proven themselves to be, regardless of whatever stats can be dredged up. I know that sounds frustrating, but stats just can't accurately measure how good players are. If the Ravens had our offense, they might go undefeated the rest of the year.

So now I'll ask you, do you really believe our defense-- right now-- is better than Baltimore's?

 

[The30YardSlant]

Mike Zimmer has had 4 top 10 defenses in his tenure here. That's all that needs to be said

 

[ravidubey]

Mike Zimmer has had 4 top 10 defenses in his tenure here. That's all that needs to be said

Define "top"? Why didn't these "top" defenses make it to the playoffs, and then what did they do in the playoffs if they got there? A defense that earns its stripes against bad teams and then gets blasted by anyone with a playoff-calibre offense isn't worth remembering (but unfortunately I do).

I don't hang my hat on statistical rankings because thankfully I'm a Cowboys fan and I've got five Lombardi's and great teams I can recall that earned them. You want "top" defenses? Check out those Doomsday units that earned those trophies. That's what Cowboys fans should consider to be "top"!

Mike Zimmer understands "bend don't break" and "contain", but when it comes to running a defense that wins games we're always a play short against the best teams. I can understand how he learned to coach that way given the Dallas offenses his mentors Campo and Davis enjoyed playing with. But until now we haven't had even a very good offense since Irvin fell.

I think we can win with this defense and even this defensive philosophy (because of our offense), but we could be better-- especially with so much talent stacked on the defense.

 

[Frosty]

I wonder what what kinda of defense Zimmer would run without Parcels around.....From everything I gather (and it aint much) Parcels plays the stats more than anything...hell the cowboys are top 10 in defense and offense but cant get out of there own way to win a game........ top ten dont mean nutin when your at home watching the superbowl instead of playing in it..

 

[AbeBeta]

How many idiotic thread about Zimmer do we have to endure. Week after week. Same stupid posts.