Zimmer Lovers-

[big dog cowboy]

I want to know how he can be at fault when he was forced to coach a defensive scheme he knew nothing about.

He has been coaching a defensive scheme he knows nothing about his entire career. This year isn't anything special.

 

[big dog cowboy]

i dont mind what we have in zimmer, give him 2 more years in a 3-4 before i can really critique him

What was your excuse until last year when he coached the 4-3 every year?

 

[junk]

Yeah Payton is so bad he has alota teams interviewin him for the HC job while no team is interested in Zimmer.

Well, except for the Rams, who interviewed him for their HC job.

But, yeah, other than that, nobody is interested.

 

[junk]

He has been coaching a defensive scheme he knows nothing about his entire career. This year isn't anything special.

:laugh2: I might not agree, but that is darn funny.

 

[neosapien23]

Mike Zimmer would probably put better packages together if it wasn't for Parcells. Parcells is holding both Payton and Zimmer back. People will think I'm smoking crack, but I think BP is the conservative unimaginative force behind the playcalling on both sides. Capers will be forced to play the same scheme if he is hired.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Mike Zimmer would probably put better packages together if it wasn't for Parcells. Parcells is holding both Payton and Zimmer back.

Dude, it has nothing to do with BP. Zimmer sucked long before he arrived at Valley Ranch.

 

[big dog cowboy]

:laugh2: I might not agree, but that is darn funny.

While I do post with a hint of sarcism or humor as much as possible, that time I wasn't. Unfortunately. Dick LaBeau will always be 1000% better than Zimmer could ever hope to be.

 

[TheHustler]

LOLB 53 C.Haggans 6 years
LILB 51 J.Farrior 9 years
RILB 50 L.Foote 4 years
ROLB 55 J.Porter 7 years


They have alot of youth in the secondary and other positions mixed with vetrans just like us

The LBs are KEY to a 3-4. The complications of being a 3-4 LB make it tough for young players. The average experience of their LBs is 6.5 years.

What did we end up with?

Ware - rookie, 0 years experience.
James - first year starter, 0 years experience.
Shanle/Fowler - first (and hopefully last) year starters, 0 years experience
Fujita - 3 years experience

Their LEAST experienced starter has more than our MOST.

Gosh darn, I wonder why we don't have more complicated blitz packages....

 

[blindzebra]

The LBs are KEY to a 3-4. The complications of being a 3-4 LB make it tough for young players. The average experience of their LBs is 6.5 years.

What did we end up with?

Ware - rookie, 0 years experience.
James - first year starter, 0 years experience.
Shanle/Fowler - first (and hopefully last) year starters, 0 years experience
Fujita - 3 years experience

Their LEAST experienced starter has more than our MOST.

Gosh darn, I wonder why we don't have more complicated blitz packages....

Don't forget we had 2 rookies starting up front a good portion of the year. Two more rookies getting playing time, and 3 vets with little to no 3-4 experience on the DL.

But lets not let the facts, logic or common sense get in the way of a nonsense argument.

 

[Billy Bullocks]

The LBs are KEY to a 3-4. The complications of being a 3-4 LB make it tough for young players. The average experience of their LBs is 6.5 years.

What did we end up with?

Ware - rookie, 0 years experience.
James - first year starter, 0 years experience.
Shanle/Fowler - first (and hopefully last) year starters, 0 years experience
Fujita - 3 years experience

Their LEAST experienced starter has more than our MOST.

Gosh darn, I wonder why we don't have more complicated blitz packages....

Not only that, but what I've been saying all along:

We do NOT have anyone beside Ware who is a legitamte pass rushing threat from the OLB spot...the point of the 3-4 is to disguise your 4th rusher. You hit the offense with teh element of surprise because they have to pick up your blitz, AND they have to figure out who the hell is the 4th guy coming. When Ware is the only guy who poses a legitamate threat, it's not hard for an offense to figure out the "deception" of the 3-4.

 

[jterrell]

A very simple defense of Zimmer would be this:

He has now run 3 entirely different defensive schemes:the Miami 4-3, the Tampa Bay cover 2 and the BP 3-4 and has finished with a top 10 defense with all 3.

...but dont let that stop you from a good whinefest.

We have at times blitzed a lot and when we do we suck.
The defenses yesterday had talent. A lot of talent. Urlacher, Peppers, Joey Porter, Ogunleye, Tatupu, and many more. We are gettin there in talent and we are getting there in sack total. When we have a better coverage safety we will be free to blitz more. Right now our safeties can't man cover.

 

[texastwister]

A very simple defense of Zimmer would be this:

He has now run 3 entirely different defensive schemes:the Miami 4-3, the Tampa Bay cover 2 and the BP 3-4 and has finished with a top 10 defense with all 3.

...but dont let that stop you from a good whinefest.

We have at times blitzed a lot and when we do we suck.
The defenses yesterday had talent. A lot of talent. Urlacher, Peppers, Joey Porter, Ogunleye, Tatupu, and many more. We are gettin there in talent and we are getting there in sack total. When we have a better coverage safety we will be free to blitz more. Right now our safeties can't man cover.

I will agree Zimmer has coached 3 differnent defenses and has done a good job but I dont care if we finished in the top 10 or not. The NFL ranks def by yards. I want our defense in the top 10 in TO and pts allowed. We usally have 30 some sacks and 11-15 INT Hell Vasher from Chicago I believe had 6 Int himself.


Right now our safeties can't man cover.-Do you think Roy is going to change the way our defense plays. I love Roy but he is not or ever will be good in coverage Thats why we blitz him.

 

[conner01]

like watching the steelers defence, but remind me how long they've gave cowher to build on this scheme, and how m,any super bowls he's won with it?yet we expect our defense with 9 guys who have'nt even played the 3-4 before to be the same after one year

 

[chinch]

How is this alot like Dallas?

All our best vets don't even fit the 3-4 (Glover, Ellis)

Year one 3-4 and the D performed better than expected. To compare it to a system like Pitt is absurd.

I disagree Pittsburgh has
Defense
DE 91 A.Smith 7years
NT 98 C.Hampton 5 years
DE 67 K.von Oelhoffen 12 years
LOLB 53 C.Haggans 6 years
LILB 51 J.Farrior 9 years
RILB 50 L.Foote 4 years
ROLB 55 J.Porter 7 years
LCB 24 I.Taylor 3 years
FS 28 C.Hope 4 years
SS 43 T.Polamalu 3 years
RCB 26 D.Townsend 8 years

They have alot of youth in the secondary and other positions mixed with vetrans just like us

 

[Yakuza Rich]

For those of you that watched the Steelers game and will watch the Bears game-Can you see the difference in those 2 defense compared too Dallas?

These defenses are aggresive and cause turnovers unlike Zimmers defense.

Yes, the Bears defense was completely healthy and still gave up 29 points to a very average offense and couldn't stop 1 freaking guy. Dallas, despite playing with a backup CB, a backup SS in the fourth quarter, backup OLB, and a backup ILB held the Panthers down and completely shut down Steve Smith.

Rich.................
















/[/QUOTE]

 

[texastwister]

Yes, the Bears defense was completely healthy and still gave up 29 points to a very average offense and couldn't stop 1 freaking guy. Dallas, despite playing with a backup CB, a backup SS in the fourth quarter, backup OLB, and a backup ILB held the Panthers down and completely shut down Steve Smith.

Rich.................

Yeh Carolina is a REAL average offense. Carlona was
8th in the league at 24.4 pts per game Seattle #1 with 28.3


Chicago doesnt have 1 guy to match up with Smith like we did. Yes he tore up the defense but youre not getting the whole moral of the story. I want to know why our defense cant pressure and turn games around like other defenses? Like Ware did in the second to last game. We need that every passing situation not once every 3 series. 3rd and long we shouldnt have to send 7 guys to get pressure. Dont tell me we dont have the talent Ellis got his bookend to take pressure off his double teams the players were fresh due to rotation.

Do you want to tell me Chicago's Hunter Hillenmeyer taken in the 2003 draft Rd 5 31 position was a good pick at OLB at the time. He was a body. The Bears scheme made him a potential (should have made it) pro bowl player.
This is my point it is all in the scheme the scheme comes from the DC not the HC this is the point withZim its his scheme Maybe its Bill defense but Zim is running it and calling the plays.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I want to know why our defense cant pressure and turn games around like other defenses? Like Ware did in the second to last game.

Actually, Dallas was second in sacks and first in adjusted sack ratio before the bye week. After that, they dropped off quite a bit to the point where they finished 14th in sacks and 8th in adjusted sack ratio So, it's not like they weren't able to get to the QB at all this year. For more than half of the season they did.

Dont tell me we dont have the talent Ellis got his bookend to take pressure off his double teams the players were fresh due to rotation.

Not all of it was Zimmer's fault. Glover and Ellis don't really fit the scheme and were able to still get some sacks. Once they lost Henry, they seemed to blitz less which shows they had some concerns about the pass coverage. Also, Shanle got hurt and they had to stop blitzing him. And Fujita didn't seem like the same player once he was asked to be the full time starter.

It also didn't help that the offense had trouble moving the ball and scoring. That allows the opponents to run the ball more and put themselves in better situations passing the ball.

Do you want to tell me Chicago's Hunter Hillenmeyer taken in the 2003 draft Rd 5 31 position was a good pick at OLB at the time. He was a body. The Bears scheme made him a potential (should have made it) pro bowl player.

Hillenmeyer is the worst player on their defense and is generally a mediocre player. Any Bears fan will tell you this to the point Lovie Smith and Jerry Angelo are trying to find somebody to replace him because he's a major liability like Keith Davis and Willie Pile are as free safeties.

This is my point it is all in the scheme the scheme comes from the DC not the HC this is the point withZim its his scheme Maybe its Bill defense but Zim is running it and calling the plays.

You lost all credibility when you claimed Hillenmeyer was a pro bowl worthy player.

I'm not a Zimmer fan by any means, but for the most part I'm pretty indifferent when it comes to him. I think considering the injuries and the amount of rookies they had playing, the defense exceeded all expectations and should only get better, regardless if Zimmer is the D-Coordinator or not.


Rich........

 

[Maikeru-sama]

The main problem is people are too quick to mimic what the Hall of Fame Committee does and travel over to NFL.com or Profootballreference.com and let information from those sites...Stats do all the talking for you.

Instead, one should be going on what they have seen in the games as a measure of how good or bad Michael Zimmer is as a Defensive Coordinator because you watched the games yourself and know how effective/ineffective they were without the need for quantitative data.

When I saw him in 2003 I saw:
Aggressiveness, even though we had a pup and a below average corner on the outsides. Due to the lack of innovative thinking and refusual to change philosophies, opponents eventually figured us out, hence the blowout in the Playoffs.

When I saw him in 2005 I saw:
Aggressive throughout most of the game but really lacked innovative qualities, expecially on blitzes. During the 4th Quarter with leads, I saw a very laxed and complacent zone defensive philosophy and hence you had so many tight games and the defense giving up huge plays torward the end.

I have not even went to NFL.com to check out stats and ratio because I saw the guys play and what the qualitative results were.

Zimmer is a pretty good coach but Parcells is always talking about how he will always take the opportunity to upgrade every position on the field and I dont understand why fans are not at liberty to take the same stance with Coaches and Coordinators.

Here are some things that would make me change my opinion about Zimmer:
--Disguise your blitzes more, when the cowboys blitz, especially up the middle, it is all too obvious. I watched the Commanders games, and I watched Omar Stoutmire in particular, who had some huge sacks. I watched how he blitzed by waiting until the DLineman were on their blocks before he rushed up the middle, the Cowboys alot of times get stuck while going up the middle.

--Stop being so passive when you have a lead in the 4th Quarter. Keep dancing with what got you the lead, which in the Case of the Skins(1st) and Gints (1st) was being aggressive.

--I would really like to see some more innovative zone coverages. We have some very athletic linebackers and defensive lineman. Denver is one team that does alot of zone blitzes and will drop DLineman back and rush Linebackers, just a sort of a change up to confuse the quarterback.

--At some point, I would really love to see Demarcus Ware, Keith Davis and Roy Williams being moved all over the field to confuse the offense.


- Mike G.

 

[texastwister]

Aikman claimed he should have made the Pro Bowl over or at least beside Urlacher

 

[texastwister]

The main problem is people are too quick to mimic what the Hall of Fame Committee does and travel over to NFL.com or Profootballreference.com and let information from those sites...Stats do all the talking for you.

When I saw him in 2003 I saw:
Aggressiveness, even though we had a pup and a below average corner on the outsides. Due to the lack of innovative thinking and refusual to change philosophies, opponents eventually figured us out, hence the blowout in the Playoffs.


When I saw him in 2005 I saw:
Aggressive throughout most of the game but really lacked innovative qualities, expecially on blitzes. During the 4th Quarter with leads, I saw a very laxed and complacent zone defensive philosophy and hence you had so many tight games and the defense giving up huge plays torward the end.

I have not even went to NFL.com to check out stats and ratio because I saw the guys play and what the qualitative results were.

Zimmer is a pretty good coach but Parcells is always talking about how he will always take the opportunity to upgrade every position on the field and I dont understand why fans are not at liberty to take the same stance with Coaches and Coordinators.

Here are some things that would make me change my opinion about Zimmer:
--Disguise your blitzes more, when the cowboys blitz, especially up the middle, it is all too obvious. I watched the Commanders games, and I watched Omar Stoutmire in particular, who had some huge sacks. I watched how he blitzed by waiting until the DLineman were on their blocks before he rushed up the middle, the Cowboys alot of times get stuck while going up the middle.

--Stop being so passive when you have a lead in the 4th Quarter. Keep dancing with what got you the lead, which in the Case of the Skins(1st) and Gints (1st) was being aggressive.

--I would really like to see some more innovative zone coverages. We have some very athletic linebackers and defensive lineman. Denver is one team that does alot of zone blitzes and will drop DLineman back and rush Linebackers, just a sort of a change up to confuse the quarterback.

--At some point, I would really love to see Demarcus Ware, Keith Davis and Roy Williams being moved all over the field to confuse the offense.


- Mike G.

Excellent post!!!

This is what I am trying to get across but you are better with words than me.


the Cowboys alot of times get stuck while going up the middle.
This is what I was saying in the argument in another post. When Zim does blitz we send everyone up the middle and most times it is blocked which now has put our CB in a tough situation. This is Zims aggressive play calling Blitz up the middle get blocked get burned deep abandon the blitz the rest of the game.