Video: I'm not getting the Jaylon Smith hype

[jnday]

Yup. Terrible tackling technique. He diagnosed the play and read it from the snap. He didn't sit back and wait for it to come to him. If he would have wrapped him up instead of trying to hit a 300lb QB high, that would have just proved my point even more.

Jack seems to tackle by dragging a player down instead of hitting him. It was discussed quite a bit in different threads before the draft. As with any player, cherry pickings certain plays can make even the best look bad. As for Smith, I have a very indifferent view of him as I do most draft picks. Hope he is good, but I am not going to argue about him. The debate about his knee issue is another matter and I can understand the opposition to the pick based on that one factor.

 

[texbumthelife]

Yeah, no need for anything to get personal. In the OP, I said I have heard comparisons to Patrick Willis, and people calling him a thumper. I just don't see it. I do see some of that from Jack. My premise wasn't to make it a Jack vs Smith thread. When I think Patrick Willis or Ray Lewis, or even a guy like Zach Thomas, I think of someone who sees the play at the snap and is already moving towards the hole.

The thing is, Jack's propensity to want to "thump" actually take him away from quite a few plays. Jaylon Smith may not be as prone to blowing up the OL away from the ball, but he flows more quickly and more naturally than Jack and it's really not even close. Jack frequently is back on his heel and sags in his response whereas Jaylon Smith is never stationary.

I think you're correct that Jack is more physical than Jaylon Smith. I think that's very hard to argue against. He also seems a little more willing to just throw his body around with reckless abandon. That willingness doesn't always translate into a better player and making more plays though, as clearly evidenced by their numbers.

As far as being a thumper, watch Jaylon Smith in the open field and when he gets a clean shot. The ball carrier generally loses all momentum and goes the opposite direction.

 

[USMarineVet]

http://i539.***BLOCKED***/albums/ff360/GodsOfWar10/how-crazy-are-you-5.png

 

[Cas2800]

Yeah, but look at the clip I posted of Myles Jack. 1:44. He drives a RT off balance and gets in the mix. You will never see Myles Jack getting pushed back 5+ yards by a lineman like Smith does. As soon as the ball is snapped, Myles Jack is running down hill. He doesn't wait for anything. I would rather a guy overrun a play by trusting his instincts and getting his nose dirty than to sit back and wait for a play to develop in front of him. Again, this might be a scheme issue. It just seems like Jack is way more physical and more downhill.

So you like Jack better......we get it.

 

[Clove]

You don't like him. Okay, moving on...

 

[bayeslife]

Only on CZ with YouTube highlights will you get somebody saying Jaylon Smith was anything less than elite.

No offense to OP, but did you watch him play with your eyes closed? This is blowing my mind more than the armchair scouts that think Ramsey isn't an elite prospect.

 

[MRV52]

We are very fortunate that those saying Jaylon is nothing special are not members of our scouting department. Once this kid hits the field and he will , you will be amazed at his ability. No question he would have been ranked top 5 if he was healthy. Did you guys see Gruden cut up Ramsey. Ramsey on those 3 or 4 plays he should looked horrible. Ever player can't make all the plays and don't go all out on every play.

 

[CyberB0b]

Alright, I am eating lunch. I will hit some videos here in a bit. I like being able to debate without any insults or anything. Good lookin' out.

I think Jack translates much more to a WILL (Derrick Brooks) role in this defense.

This guy pretty much is saying the same thing I am. I don't see how he fits here, in this scheme, as a Mike.



I think my original premise still stands. He isn't Patrick Willis and he isn't a thumper.

 

[texbumthelife]

This guy pretty much is saying the same thing I am. I don't see how he fits here, in this scheme, as a Mike.



I think my original premise still stands. He isn't Patrick Willis and he isn't a thumper.

Brian Urlacher wasn't Patrick Willis. Luke Kuechly isn't Patrick Willis. I am all but certain you'd take both of them. I think Urlacher is a very good comparison for Jaylon Smith.

Ragland, Smith and Jack are all significantly different players. Ragland is a two down linebacker who isn't covering anyone. Jack lacks instincts, take a ton of false steps and relies on his athletic ability.

Not being a "thumper" which is purely subjective and saying " He hates to get blocked and dances around blockers" are two different thing to me. He certainly doesn't dance around blockers or hate to get blocked. Five minutes of tape makes that abundantly clear.

 

[Sydla]

One other thing to point out........... if you listen to the coaches and some in the press, it's not a given that they just wanted Smith for MIKE. One of the news guys say Marinelli talked about Smith's ability on the edge, etc.

My guess is that they might try him at MIKE but the eventual place for him if he gets healthy is being a terror on the edge. Lee likely would go back to Mike.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

One other thing to point out........... if you listen to the coaches and some in the press, it's not a given that they just wanted Smith for MIKE. One of the news guys say Marinelli talked about Smith's ability on the edge, etc.

My guess is that they might try him at MIKE but the eventual place for him if he gets healthy is being a terror on the edge. Lee likely would go back to Mike.

Pretty sure they said MIKE or WILL and I took that to mean because it takes him off the line and puts him out in space.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

If the argument is Jack vs Smith it all comes down to the injury. It trumps all of this other stuff.

They had to suture Jack's meniscus back to the bone because it is peeling off. It gets worse and there is already a concern with bone on bone now that the swelling has gone down.

Even if Jacks is better it doesn't matter because he is damaged goods with a condition that will never improve.

Also you may want to look for both the good and bad and give comprehensive analysis as opposed to cherry picking the stuff you don't like which is clearly biased to look for.

I think you are really confused on Jack's injury. There are two issues.

1. Torn meniscus
2. Cartilage separating from the bone

The meniscus repair will basically solve that issue. They have saved the meniscus, which is the cushioning between the bones that make up the knee joint. It is a spongy pad not that different from the discs between your vertebra. More often than not, a meniscus tear is usually on the outer edge of the meniscus and is just trimmed off. Jack's tear was in the interior where there is sufficient blood flow to stitch it back together.

The cartilage separating from the bone is completely different. The cartilage is the smooth surface on the exterior of the bones...it basically allows the bones to move against each other without friction. When the cartilage goes, it is very painful because you get a grinding sensation, inflammation, tenderness, etc. The only way to repair cartilage damage is microfracture surgery, where they drill into the bones, hoping that when the body repairs the damage it basically creates new cartilage. It's far from a guaranteed fix.

So, basically the big issue with Jack is not the meniscus. With time it should be fine. The big issue is how fast will the osteochrondral defect become symptomatic? This is a very similar situation as to what Ron Leary has.

 

[Chuck 54]

Man, you are missing it. Jaylen is a natural, instinctive, tackler who doesn't miss and who is there to make the tackle before the blockers have a chance. As a MLB, he's not the old school, take on 300 lb guys and make the back run around. By heat seeking missile, they don't necessarily mean there's a huge explosion at impact, but that the back cannot get away from him once he's locked on. He makes tackles and doesn't have to take on blocks; he usually has the play sniffed out, diagnosed and is at the point the back wants to get to before he is.

Yes, he's going to have a chance to be the best MLB to ever play in Dallas, and that's saying something.

 

[ccb04]

Fair enough, but I think his coverage skills are better than his pass rushing skills, which means he won't be used very often, just due to the scheme we play. If he is playing MLB in a 4-3 under, he will have to get his nose dirty.

http://i1042.***BLOCKED***/albums/b425/Vascoledias/output_yY7yta_zpsi6nxaw4k.gif

You just don't see this brute physicality from Smith.

That's absolutely piss-poor leverage, technique & attempting to impose some will, by an O-Lineman. The OL doesn't even look set to block & gives weak effort. Barely attempts to put his hands up.

Similarly, when Jack was trucked by Logan Thomas...he tried to go high on a bigger player, and lost in embarrassing fashion.

We've all seen D-Linemen get rag-dolled by O-Linemen & vice-versa. Some much bigger DL players (in terms of size vs. LB's), have trouble getting off blocks, etc.

In the pass rush film from ND's practices...you can see Smith battle a bit with guys like Ronnie Stanley. And yes, he does want to use his speed and athleticism (two of his greatest attributes), to his advantage. But he's capable of displaying some power as well.

Smith being taller & more linear than Jack can also affect leverage. That's one of the areas I think Jaylon needs to improve. Though they typically carry similar weight...Smith is 2 inches taller & not as compact.

With the above said, there are plenty of even smaller/faster (smaller than Smith & Jack) LB's making big impacts in the NFL. Recent examples would be Smith, Alexander, and David. Alexander & David having success playing in a similar scheme to the one Marinelli utilizes.

Even guys like Ray Lewis were better with mammoth DL players in front of him where he didn't have to take on & attempt to shed as many blocks.

 

[mattjames2010]

Already discussed this. Most here don't want to hear it, he's the next Ray Lewis to everyone now, but he looks closer to a Rolando McClain.

 

[mattjames2010]

Jack can't come close to rushing the QB like Smith. Night and day.

You don't think Jack can rush a QB with a gaping hole during an all-out blitz? Because that's where most of Smith's pressures/sacks came from.

 

[mattjames2010]

This guy pretty much is saying the same thing I am. I don't see how he fits here, in this scheme, as a Mike.



I think my original premise still stands. He isn't Patrick Willis and he isn't a thumper.

Right there at the end of the video where he's stating how Smith loses track of the ball, this is the biggest red flag behind him getting beat when blocked. We can go on all day about this athleticism, him getting faked out easily is going to kill him in the NFL. You can't screw up like this against play action and he's going to bite often.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think you are really confused on Jack's injury. There are two issues.

1. Torn meniscus
2. Cartilage separating from the bone

The meniscus repair will basically solve that issue. They have saved the meniscus, which is the cushioning between the bones that make up the knee joint. It is a spongy pad not that different from the discs between your vertebra. More often than not, a meniscus tear is usually on the outer edge of the meniscus and is just trimmed off. Jack's tear was in the interior where there is sufficient blood flow to stitch it back together.

The cartilage separating from the bone is completely different. The cartilage is the smooth surface on the exterior of the bones...it basically allows the bones to move against each other without friction. When the cartilage goes, it is very painful because you get a grinding sensation, inflammation, tenderness, etc. The only way to repair cartilage damage is microfracture surgery, where they drill into the bones, hoping that when the body repairs the damage it basically creates new cartilage. It's far from a guaranteed fix.

So, basically the big issue with Jack is not the meniscus. With time it should be fine. The big issue is how fast will the osteochrondral defect become symptomatic? This is a very similar situation as to what Ron Leary has.

Meniscus is cartilage.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Meniscus is cartilage.

Yes, meniscus is made from cartilage but what they are referring to in regard to this injury is two different things. The meniscus is a separate pad made of cartilage. The articular cartilage that is peeling away from the bone is completely different than the meniscus.

https://www.verywell.com/meniscus-tear-2548670

This is a fantastic page about knee injuries

http://ortho.templehealth.org/content/upload/AssetMgmt/Documents/OrthoCartilageforWebSite.pdf

 

[Angry Man]

Right there at the end of the video where he's stating how Smith loses track of the ball, this is the biggest red flag behind him getting beat when blocked. We can go on all day about this athleticism, him getting faked out easily is going to kill him in the NFL. You can't screw up like this against play action and he's going to bite often.

He states that Smith has trouble with misdirection based run offenses such as the one ran by Georgia Tech, who run a spread triple option. I would not worry too much about this all too much.