Is Garrett the best evaluator of talent we have ever had?

KingintheNorth

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Stephen is the acting GM.

For a guy with a big ego like Jerry, the only people he brags on more than himself are his kids/grandkids. It makes sense that his son is the only person Jerry was going to empower as the acting GM.

Stephen's title is CEO and Executive Vice President/Director of Player Personnel.

Jerry's other kids run the stadium business, marketing, cheerleaders, etc. Only Stephen is involved in the football operations.

S.Jones morphed onto being the acting GM with no specific date on when it really happened.

There have been multiple issues where Stephen and Jerry expressed different preferences/opinions to the media (both do weekly radio interviews during the season). Stephen appears to have gotten his way on all of those differing preferences the past few years. The last time Jerry appears to have over-ruled him was when they caved in and gave Dez the big contract. Stephen wanted to play hardball and probably would forced Dez to play on the Franchise Tag or taken way less guaranteed money in the contract.

When they ended up cutting Dez last year, Jerry expressed that he preferred to keep him. Garrett also appeared to want to keep Dez. Cutting Dez was a decision by S.Jones. It was a clear indication that he is the acting GM and that Jerry is not over-ruling him.

In the draft Stephen and McClay run the show. Garrett has input and they get input from the coach or coaches specific to the position of the player(s) being drafted.

Jerry would have drafted Manziel and would have traded up for Paxton Lynch if Stephen was not the acting GM. Jerry said that himself.

Jerry is the tie breaker on decisions (i.e. see Frederick instead of Floyd).

Jerry appears to be more involved if it's a player with character issues. Jerry's statement when deciding to draft Randy Gregory "It's on me if he fails" meaning Jerry won't hold it against employees if Gregory fails.

After Jimmy and before Parcells Jerry's top talent evaluator was Larry Lacewell. Jerry and Lacewell were drinking buddies. Lacewell was a disaster and most of his decisions appear to have been made while he was boozing it up with Jerry.

Parcells fired Lacewell AND scout Bryan Broaddus.

When Parcells departed the top talent evaluator was Tom Ciskowski. As just a talent evaluator Ciskowski was very knowledgable; however, he didn't have the personality to be in charge or to make high pressure decisions. He had no ability to steer Jerry away from seat of the pants decisions. He also had minimal communications with the coaching staff to get their input on building the draft board.

Ciskowski's influence started to decline after the 2009 draft. The 2013 draft when they had the DT Floyd highly rated but Marinelli stepped in and said he does not fit the scheme was the final straw. After that Will McClay became the top talent evaluator and Stephen/Garrett appeared to be the ones that pushed for McClay's promotion.

You and I don't always see eye-to-eye, but this is spot on.

Additionally, Ciskowski finally stood up to the Jones' (Jerry and Stephen) and it led to his demise and McClay's promotion.
 

BillyBates

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he would have fired himself aloooong time ago. JJ calls the shots anyway.
 

Redball Express

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I doubt it very much. and even if he was a great talent evaluator, what good is that if you can't coach the players. his offensive schemes are among the league's worst. he can't judge coordinators very well. Callahan, monte, Marinelli and linehan.
Maybe.

But then Richard and Columbo are great hires and somebody had to have talked Hudson Houck to return last year to help Columbo and the OL get settled.

I also like Leon Lett as a DL coach.

Garrett or Jerrah or somebody is making good choices.

And the rumor of Lee coming back to coach at some point and I think Witten will coach also here soon.

Garrett would have to be in on all those decisions.

And then there is Moore as QB coach.

Garrett has to be rubber stamping all this to work with it all?

That is why I do not see Garrett leaving after this season.

Despite statements from Stephen about it.

Worst case scenerio is Garrett gets promoted to FO.

Despite the folding of the AFF..

Moose did a great job as GM of the Commanders in San Antonio and I strongly feel he is FO material.

Jerrah..hello?
 

xwalker

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You and I don't always see eye-to-eye, but this is spot on.

Additionally, Ciskowski finally stood up to the Jones' (Jerry and Stephen) and it led to his demise and McClay's promotion.

Great soldiers often make poor commanders.

I'm an Engineer and I've seen many really good Engineers get moved to management and become terrible managers.

Ciskowski was just not cut out to be a manager.

He has done interviews in the past. It's easy to see that he a better scout than manager.
 

Redball Express

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I guess Bill Parcells never coached Dallas
I liked Parcells.

Two things about him disappointed me.

Him changing to the 3-4 and letting Zimmer go..

and him letting Payton leave for New Orleans.

I thought he should have shown more loyalty to Dallas and set up his heir apparent knowing he was short-term like he was.

We would have been very different if he had not done those things.

Either Zimmer or Payton would have made us great.

Payton for sure but Zimmer deserved a shot after years of keeping our defense at the top of the league.

:eek:
 

Ranching

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  1. Every one of us have a guy in the back of our mind we prefer over Garrett.But I heard something today from Broadus on the Draft Show where he said.."
  2. "Garrett was the best talent evaluator this team has ever had"
  3. ."I had to stop at that comment and think about it.I had not considered that part of his job.I just considered Will Clay to be the main brain there.But if that is true..then you have to give him more credit than he has received for the job of building the team the last 3 years.
  4. It has improved a lot and normally I do not think of Garrett in the War Room as being a player.

    But I guess I am wrong there. Broadus should know.He has been around a bit. Hmmm..
Comments ftom the peanut gallery?
:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:
:lmao2::lmao2::lmao2::lmao2:
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 

xwalker

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You have to appreciate when people have inside information. That means you have integrity and your respected. I have friends that are football players but we are old timers. I would love to know what happened the complete team implosion. The Colts game. Something happened in that locker room with that team. Go Cowboys

My public stance is that I don't claim inside information.

Too many people have done that here in the past.

If anybody wants to PM me to discuss then I'll provide more details about how I get info.
 

KingintheNorth

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But then Richard and Columbo are great hires and somebody had to have talked Hudson Houck to return last year to help Columbo and the OL get settled.
Agreed but the Columbo and Houck move was also a correction to a very bad decision to hire Paul Alexander.

Richard was a great move. Fight On!

I still don''t like the Sanjay Lil hire.
 

KingintheNorth

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Great soldiers often make poor commanders.

I'm an Engineer and I've seen many really good Engineers get moved to management and become terrible managers.

Ciskowski was just not cut out to be a manager.

He has done interviews in the past. It's easy to see that he a better scout than manager.
Very true.

Wade Phillips? Amazing defensive coordinator, awful head coach.

Nothing wrong at being very good at a very specific job.
 

Doomsday101

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This was a while back but I think still holds true
Jimmy Johnson:
"I think the No. 1, most important person in your entire organization is your talent evaluator, whoever that guy is," Johnson said. "And when I say talent, not necessarily just the players. Talent evaluator as far as your coaches, your assistant coaches, the people in your organization.

"Your talent evaluator is the most important person there. Now it might be your general manager, it might be your director of player personnel, it might be your head coach. That was my responsibility when I was back in coaching. I think he is more important actually than your head coach."

Johnson had total control over football personnel in both Dallas and Miami, but he suggested the modern NFL has become so complex, so all-consuming, that model no longer is feasible. And he's not the first to come to that determination.

"Some people have a dual role," Johnson said. "More times than not it's your general manager. In New England, right now it's [Bill] Belichick. He does both. But there's very few in the NFL right now that's doing both. Â… Really it's an overwhelming job with the salary cap and free agency. You really need to separate.

"Bill does it now and he's got some assistants with some people there in the front office, but I mean he's got no life. That's all he does. And it's an overwhelming job. And I think because it is such an overwhelming job, he's probably missed on some of them and he's starting to miss more than what he did in previous years when he had Scott Pioli."

To hear Johnson tell it, the Dolphins would be foolish to hand total control to one of those superstar head coaches like Bill Cowher, Jon Gruden or Jeff Fisher. Better to find the person who can see through the muck and find the right people who should play, coach and scout for the franchise.

"It's really too much of a job," Johnson said. "Even if you hire one of these guys that say, 'Hey, I want control,' they're really not going to do it. They're going to be the head coach and maybe they're got the final say, but the nuts and bolts of it, 80 percent of the work will be done by somebody else.

"So he's going to have to have him somebody really good as a talent evaluator to do the job. Even if you give that guy the title, he better have somebody with him that's doing it really good. Pete Carroll is trying to do some of this [in Seattle]. It's swallowing him up. He can't do it."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...talent-evaluation-berardino-110811-story.html
 

Whirlwin

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My public stance is that I don't claim inside information.

Too many people have done that here in the past.

If anybody wants to PM me to discuss then I'll provide more details about how I get info.
I have NFL friends but that doesn't mean I have inside information. Been away from the game too long.
 

Whirlwin

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This was a while back but I think still holds true
Jimmy Johnson:
"I think the No. 1, most important person in your entire organization is your talent evaluator, whoever that guy is," Johnson said. "And when I say talent, not necessarily just the players. Talent evaluator as far as your coaches, your assistant coaches, the people in your organization.

"Your talent evaluator is the most important person there. Now it might be your general manager, it might be your director of player personnel, it might be your head coach. That was my responsibility when I was back in coaching. I think he is more important actually than your head coach."

Johnson had total control over football personnel in both Dallas and Miami, but he suggested the modern NFL has become so complex, so all-consuming, that model no longer is feasible. And he's not the first to come to that determination.

"Some people have a dual role," Johnson said. "More times than not it's your general manager. In New England, right now it's [Bill] Belichick. He does both. But there's very few in the NFL right now that's doing both. Â… Really it's an overwhelming job with the salary cap and free agency. You really need to separate.

"Bill does it now and he's got some assistants with some people there in the front office, but I mean he's got no life. That's all he does. And it's an overwhelming job. And I think because it is such an overwhelming job, he's probably missed on some of them and he's starting to miss more than what he did in previous years when he had Scott Pioli."

To hear Johnson tell it, the Dolphins would be foolish to hand total control to one of those superstar head coaches like Bill Cowher, Jon Gruden or Jeff Fisher. Better to find the person who can see through the muck and find the right people who should play, coach and scout for the franchise.

"It's really too much of a job," Johnson said. "Even if you hire one of these guys that say, 'Hey, I want control,' they're really not going to do it. They're going to be the head coach and maybe they're got the final say, but the nuts and bolts of it, 80 percent of the work will be done by somebody else.

"So he's going to have to have him somebody really good as a talent evaluator to do the job. Even if you give that guy the title, he better have somebody with him that's doing it really good. Pete Carroll is trying to do some of this [in Seattle]. It's swallowing him up. He can't do it."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...talent-evaluation-berardino-110811-story.html
What I want for my head coach. If I we're in charge. Field management. Time clock management. Play specific management. Situational management. I want my assistant coaches to handle everything else that's enough to concentrate on what I already mentioned. During the game
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I think you’ve stretched it a bit. I stated it was a top 10 offense but Romo was a Pro Bowler not an All Pro, Murray was drafted in 2011 but he didn’t start and we didn’t have a league leading rushing game with Felix .

Again, I’d agree we had enough offense to contend. Defense was the bigger issue despite an elite edge rusher and it being a strength in recent years. By 2012 our defense was one of the worst in our history statistically.

I never said he was an All Pro. I said he was an All Pro capable QB, which he clearly was. I was not talking about Murray, although you can certainly include him in the discussion. I was talking about Barber but that's here nor there. Once again, I never said that he lead the league in rushing, I said he was capable of that but again, here nor there. Do you believe that either of those things is a lie?

Defense was the bigger issue because it was set up to be that way. We had talent on the Defensive side of the ball. By 2012, the decision on the Defensive side of the ball belonged to Garrett so if you want to say that it was bare, who's fault is that? It certainly was not the case when he took the team over. He had, among others, Ware, Ratliff, Spencer, Hatcher, Lee, James, Newman, Jenkins and Sensabaugh. He had talent on the Defensive side of the Ball. If you want to disagree, that's fine but it's not accurate. There was definitely talent on that Defensive unit. Look at the games we lost in the year Garrett took over. Look at the scores of those games. Look at how many times we through the ball in those first 8 games and how long the Defense was on the field. Philips was set up that season and it wasn't because the talent on the Defensive side of the ball was bad. It was because of how the games were called on our side Offensively.
 

Redball Express

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Agreed but the Columbo and Houck move was also a correction to a very bad decision to hire Paul Alexander.

Richard was a great move. Fight On!

I still don''t like the Sanjay Lil hire.
Sanjay is curious.

I do not quite understand his value.

If I understand his redeeming factor..

It's that he is supposed to be some sort of receiving guru.

What that means I have no idea.

His previous coaching gigs were not sensational.

So unless the passing attack catches fire under Moore..

they should at least upgrade him.
 
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