2012 NBA Offseason Thread

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

What's the point of trading for a player who wont sign an extension?

To get something in return.

 

[RastaRocket]

To get something in return.

It's nothing if he doesn't extend... back to square 1. I see no point.

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

It's nothing if he doesn't extend... back to square 1. I see no point.

Again he's not gonna extend with anybody. Neither is Howard. Just doesn't make any sense financially.

 

[jterrell]

No. Nash is much better than West and Dwight is only slightly better than Bynum. Give me the current starting lineup easily. I have no idea why you continue to say the Lakers up alot for Nash when that's clearly not the case. The Lakers won't be a lottery team anytime soon so those picks will be end of first round picks. To get an All Star PG for draft picks is a steal.

You really should watch more basketball.

Delonte is a far, far, far better defender than Steve Nash. And Delonte is a similar PG to Nash in the half court game. Nash is a far better offensive player on the break to be sure but since when is that compatible with Artest, Gasol and Bynum? Since never.

And giving up 1st and 2nd round picks is BIG NOW!! Under this new CBA. Teams need cheap pieces at the end of the bench and as trade assets.

I can put together any of 10 different ways the Lakers could have had far better value than with what they finally did. Not the least of which is simply trading less for Nash who was leaving PHX regardless and didn't require that haul.

Dwight Howard is a far better player than Bynum. He is the best defensive player and rebounder in basketball. He averages 3 blocks a game and guys don't even shoot near him. He is is far better physical condition than Bynum and never tires.

Be prepared to be very let down this season as the Lakers are vastly overrated as constructed.

 

[jterrell]

You can't even do sign and trades anymore starting next offseason.

that's not true.

you can do s&t provided the team you are trading to isn't over the "hard cap".

the lakers can't do S&Ts anymore. many other teams can.

you can't give the extra max year on a year and immediately trade that contract. that's why brook lopez only got 4 years on his deal.

the team that ends up with dwight howard when his contracts expires has the most leverage. if he doesnt want to go to a team with max contract cap space then he has to take the 25m per year less and still be signed and traded. Or he stays with whoever has rights and makes the extra 25-30m.


added note: if this season does go wrong in lal and it could get bad with only 1 injury on a team this shallow; bynum may well walk away from 25m just to get away from kobe and the lakers. that team could end up with nash, kobe, gasol, artest next year and nothing to spend but 3m and then minimum slots on a player. they can't s&t for anyone because of the salaries they do have.

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

You really should watch more basketball.

Delonte is a far, far, far better defender than Steve Nash. And Delonte is a similar PG to Nash in the half court game. Nash is a far better offensive player on the break to be sure but since when is that compatible with Artest, Gasol and Bynum? Since never.

And giving up 1st and 2nd round picks is BIG NOW!! Under this new CBA. Teams need cheap pieces at the end of the bench and as trade assets.

I can put together any of 10 different ways the Lakers could have had far better value than with what they finally did. Not the least of which is simply trading less for Nash who was leaving PHX regardless and didn't require that haul.

Dwight Howard is a far better player than Bynum. He is the best defensive player and rebounder in basketball. He averages 3 blocks a game and guys don't even shoot near him. He is is far better physical condition than Bynum and never tires.

Be prepared to be very let down this season as the Lakers are vastly overrated as constructed.

Dude you keep saying I need to watch more basketball yet you're clearly the one who needs to watch more. West is a better defender than Nash, but so what? Nash is so much better offensively it doesn't even matter. Has Delonte ever averaged 11 apg? Has he ever had a TS% of over 60 of shot over 50 percent from the field? No. He's a role player. Quit being a homer dude. I bet if West wasn't a Mav you'd be singing a different. Nash is a first ballot hall of famer, still at age 38 an All Star PG, to compare a role player like West to him is an insult to Nash. That killed your credibility right there. Again about the draft picks the Lakers won't be a lottery team so they won't mean anything. You act like the Lakers gave up lottery picks when they're giving up end of first rounders. You're also wrong again when you say Lakers could've gotten Nash without giving up those picks. They only had the mini MLE and no way in hell was Nash taking that big of a paycut. They did what they had to do to get an All Star PG.

As for Bynum/Howard once again you're wrong. Dwight is the better defender, but not by much. Per 100 possessions the Magic only allowed one less point with Howard on the floor than the Lakers did with Bynum. So yeah Howard is better defensively, but only marginally. Offensively it's not close. Bynum has the far, far superior lowpost game. He's terrific with either hand, he has a nice hook shot, and has even developed a nice turnaround jumper. Dwight is very, very limited offensively. Most of his points come off alley oops and putbacks. He's also a horrible free throw shooter and can't be relied upon in the clutch. Bynum is the complete opposite. He shoots just under 70 percent. Not great, but not horrible either like Howard. If we're talking longetivty wise than yeah Howard has the edge, but if we're talking about strictly right now and based off last season then Bynum is every bit as good as Howard. Last season as the clearcut #1 option Dwight averaged 21/14. Bynum as the #2 option playing next to Kobe Bryant who averages the most shot attempts in the league averaged 19/12.

 

[MC KAos]

Steve Nash will miss a lot of time with injury, the suns training staff is by far the best in the league, I think his back will give out some during the regular season. Ultimately, it's about timing, hopefully he will be healthy for the playoffs to be raped by TP and the spurs, like old times

 

[RastaRocket]

that's not true.

you can do s&t provided the team you are trading to isn't over the "hard cap".

the lakers can't do S&Ts anymore. many other teams can.

you can't give the extra max year on a year and immediately trade that contract. that's why brook lopez only got 4 years on his deal.

the team that ends up with dwight howard when his contracts expires has the most leverage. if he doesnt want to go to a team with max contract cap space then he has to take the 25m per year less and still be signed and traded. Or he stays with whoever has rights and makes the extra 25-30m.


added note: if this season does go wrong in lal and it could get bad with only 1 injury on a team this shallow; bynum may well walk away from 25m just to get away from kobe and the lakers. that team could end up with nash, kobe, gasol, artest next year and nothing to spend but 3m and then minimum slots on a player. they can't s&t for anyone because of the salaries they do have.

I knew that sounded wrong. I never heard anything about no more sign and trades.

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

Steve Nash will miss a lot of time with injury, the suns training staff is by far the best in the league, I think his back will give out some during the regular season. Ultimately, it's about timing, hopefully he will be healthy for the playoffs to be raped by TP and the spurs, like old times

You act like the Lakers don't have a great training staff. Theirs is every bit as good as Phoenix's. Nash/Parker is a wash. If the Lakers/Spurs play it'll come down to the Lakers advantage inside vs the Spurs bench advantage.

 

[DFWJC]

I knew that sounded wrong. I never heard anything about no more sign and trades.

That's right. Sign and trade isn't as easy as before but it can still be done.

The way the cap will be handled going forward will, however, greatly affect how teams do business. By next summer, there going to be panic in some corners when they fully grasp the ramifications of bad contracts. The one time excemption to get rid of a bad contract is there for a reason. Clear it out now or pay the price for years to vome.

 

[jterrell]

Dude you keep saying I need to watch more basketball yet you're clearly the one who needs to watch more. West is a better defender than Nash, but so what? Nash is so much better offensively it doesn't even matter. Has Delonte ever averaged 11 apg? Has he ever had a TS% of over 60 of shot over 50 percent from the field? No. He's a role player. Quit being a homer dude. I bet if West wasn't a Mav you'd be singing a different. Nash is a first ballot hall of famer, still at age 38 an All Star PG, to compare a role player like West to him is an insult to Nash. That killed your credibility right there. Again about the draft picks the Lakers won't be a lottery team so they won't mean anything. You act like the Lakers gave up lottery picks when they're giving up end of first rounders. You're also wrong again when you say Lakers could've gotten Nash without giving up those picks. They only had the mini MLE and no way in hell was Nash taking that big of a paycut. They did what they had to do to get an All Star PG.

As for Bynum/Howard once again you're wrong. Dwight is the better defender, but not by much. Per 100 possessions the Magic only allowed one less point with Howard on the floor than the Lakers did with Bynum. So yeah Howard is better defensively, but only marginally. Offensively it's not close. Bynum has the far, far superior lowpost game. He's terrific with either hand, he has a nice hook shot, and has even developed a nice turnaround jumper. Dwight is very, very limited offensively. Most of his points come off alley oops and putbacks. He's also a horrible free throw shooter and can't be relied upon in the clutch. Bynum is the complete opposite. He shoots just under 70 percent. Not great, but not horrible either like Howard. If we're talking longetivty wise than yeah Howard has the edge, but if we're talking about strictly right now and based off last season then Bynum is every bit as good as Howard. Last season as the clearcut #1 option Dwight averaged 21/14. Bynum as the #2 option playing next to Kobe Bryant who averages the most shot attempts in the league averaged 19/12.

you absolutely need to watch more basketball.
i was watching Nash play 60+ games a year when you were literally 10.
i have lead groups through his steve nash camp drills.
i watched him play for a tiny little college and beat up name teams in the ncaa tourney. i actually have watched basketball.

nash was a "name" all-star last year. he didn't earn it and he played all of 4 minutes. his team was not at all competitive. sure he got assists... playing teams up 20 with back ups in. nash wont make it this year. rwestbook, cp3, parker and Lin all in before him.

he has a great offensive game to be sure. but that game relies on open floor space. he doesn't run a half court set at nearly the same efficiency.
yes he is a great shooter. he developed that mid-range game here working with dirk.

he is a better player than delonte. but he isn't necessarily a better fit on many teams than delonte would be. in a half court offense where kobe has the ball a lot nash is relegated to being a very high priced spot up shooter with terrible defense.

delonte was quite good in cleveland and boston. if he wasn't bi-polar he'd be much more respected and popular around the league. you were clamoring for him yourself not a week ago.

delonte isn't better but he is much younger, much cheaper and a much better defender. it isn't a coincidence his ex-coach was recruiting him to lal.

lal would have been better of with him instead of nash after that trade.

i understand people will disagree... until about mid-season.

 

[juck]

DWEST is a better defender than nashy. Nashy is way better on offense but thats in his style. Im assuming Lakers are going to change the offense significantly for him. Mike Brown is a horrid coach so I doubt he can help. Kobe would have to actually play the two guard and give up reign. JTerrell is right Nash will end up a spot up shooter with no defense.

 

[MC KAos]

You act like the Lakers don't have a great training staff. Theirs is every bit as good as Phoenix's. Nash/Parker is a wash. If the Lakers/Spurs play it'll come down to the Lakers advantage inside vs the Spurs bench advantage.

sorry bud, but that matchup has never been a wash, parker has always destroyed nash. And no, the lakers traning staff is not as good as the suns

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

sorry bud, but that matchup has never been a wash, parker has always destroyed nash. And no, the lakers traning staff is not as good as the suns

Lol great response wouldn't expect any less from you. I know like to act like Tony Parker is Magic Johnson, but he's not. Even at his age of 38 Steve Nash is still a better player. He's a MUCH, MUCH better playmaker and a much better shooter. Parker is a better scorer, but that's about it. Neither are great defenders. Give me Nash all day every day. You're also wrong about the Lakers training staff. They're every bit as good as Phoenix's. Parker has never destroyed Nash. Has he done well against him? Sure, but Nash has done well against Paroer as well.

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

you absolutely need to watch more basketball.
i was watching Nash play 60+ games a year when you were literally 10.
i have lead groups through his steve nash camp drills.
i watched him play for a tiny little college and beat up name teams in the ncaa tourney. i actually have watched basketball.

nash was a "name" all-star last year. he didn't earn it and he played all of 4 minutes. his team was not at all competitive. sure he got assists... playing teams up 20 with back ups in. nash wont make it this year. rwestbook, cp3, parker and Lin all in before him.

he has a great offensive game to be sure. but that game relies on open floor space. he doesn't run a half court set at nearly the same efficiency.
yes he is a great shooter. he developed that mid-range game here working with dirk.

he is a better player than delonte. but he isn't necessarily a better fit on many teams than delonte would be. in a half court offense where kobe has the ball a lot nash is relegated to being a very high priced spot up shooter with terrible defense.

delonte was quite good in cleveland and boston. if he wasn't bi-polar he'd be much more respected and popular around the league. you were clamoring for him yourself not a week ago.

delonte isn't better but he is much younger, much cheaper and a much better defender. it isn't a coincidence his ex-coach was recruiting him to lal.

lal would have been better of with him instead of nash after that trade.

i understand people will disagree... until about mid-season.

Once again you're wrong and you're the one who needs to watch more games. Last season Nash averaged 13 & 11 in limited minutes and had a crap team in the playoff race. He absolutely deserved it. To say he didn't is just ridiculous. Again Nash is not as bad a defender as you make it seem. He's no lockdown guy, but he's far from terrible. Statistically he was the 8th best defender among All Star's. Not great, but not horrible either. Delonte is a slightly better defender, but Nash is so much better on offense it doesn't matter. Nash is a perfect fit for the Lakers because they desperately needed someone who could space the floor and take the ball out of Kobe's hands. Now Kobe can play off the ball alot more and rest alot more on offense.

 

[jterrell]

Once again you're wrong and you're the one who needs to watch more games. Last season Nash averaged 13 & 11 in limited minutes and had a crap team in the playoff race. He absolutely deserved it. To say he didn't is just ridiculous. Again Nash is not as bad a defender as you make it seem. He's no lockdown guy, but he's far from terrible. Statistically he was the 8th best defender among All Star's. Not great, but not horrible either. Delonte is a slightly better defender, but Nash is so much better on offense it doesn't matter. Nash is a perfect fit for the Lakers because they desperately needed someone who could space the floor and take the ball out of Kobe's hands. Now Kobe can play off the ball alot more and rest alot more on offense.

please stop posting trash. this is beyond dumb.

nash wasn't resigned in dallas at huge dollars largely because tony parker destroyed him in the playoffs. cuban had the chance to match but didn't. we are talking head to head nightmare for nash. nash often was switched to cover slower 2 guards. he is not a good defender but was in fact hidden on defense. his defense has always been bad and will only get worse as he ages. i saw him play defense on a nightly basis. you'll get to do so in a few months; until then ignore silly stats.

kobe isn't resting on offense. he is bringing back a modified triangle offense meant to work with gasol, bynum and kobe. nash is a spot up shooter in that offense. read what kobe says about it. steve nash is now steve kerr.

that phoenix team was horrid. i watched them play. it was plain ugly. even versus a pedestrian version of the mavs. playoff contention? ROFL. we are now discussing 9 and 10 seeds as if they are "good"?? get real.
phoenix just hit the flush button because that team was bad and getting worse.

nash came to lal for the payday and to stay near his kids. he isn't there to reclaim lost magic from 2005.

nash was down 2.2 points, .7 asts, and had his worst free throw and 3 point shooting percentages in close to a decade. he is clearly a declining player that avg'd 12.5 points on a team that was given easy scoring. whats worse his scoring severely tailed off as the season wore on. he didnt break 20 points in the final 25 games of the season.

he will turn 39 this season and this isnt a _60 game season but an 82 game season then you expect him to also be effective in the playoffs?

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

please stop posting trash. this is beyond dumb.

nash wasn't resigned in dallas at huge dollars largely because tony parker destroyed him in the playoffs. cuban had the chance to match but didn't. we are talking head to head nightmare for nash. nash often was switched to cover slower 2 guards. he is not a good defender but was in fact hidden on defense. his defense has always been bad and will only get worse as he ages. i saw him play defense on a nightly basis. you'll get to do so in a few months; until then ignore silly stats.

kobe isn't resting on offense. he is bringing back a modified triangle offense meant to work with gasol, bynum and kobe. nash is a spot up shooter in that offense. read what kobe says about it. steve nash is now steve kerr.

that phoenix team was horrid. i watched them play. it was plain ugly. even versus a pedestrian version of the mavs. playoff contention? ROFL. we are now discussing 9 and 10 seeds as if they are "good"?? get real.
phoenix just hit the flush button because that team was bad and getting worse.

nash came to lal for the payday and to stay near his kids. he isn't there to reclaim lost magic from 2005.

nash was down 2.2 points, .7 asts, and had his worst free throw and 3 point shooting percentages in close to a decade. he is clearly a declining player that avg'd 12.5 points on a team that was given easy scoring. whats worse his scoring severely tailed off as the season wore on. he didnt break 20 points in the final 25 games of the season.

he will turn 39 this season and this isnt a _60 game season but an 82 game season then you expect him to also be effective in the playoffs?

Dude you're the one posting trash I'm posting facts. Steve Nash has not declined one bit. His efficiency last year was as high as it's ever. He shot a phenomonal 53 percent from the field. That's great for anybody, but especially a point guard. His true shooting percentage (Accounts for field goal attempts and free throws) was 62. That's insane efficiency. His numbers were slightly down because he played dramatically less minutes. In his reduced minutes he still averaged nearly 11 assists a game which was the 2nd most in the NBA behind only Rajon Rondo. I never said the Suns were any good learn how to read. I said Nash had them in the playoffs race in a brutal Western Conference which was very impressive. As for Nash helping Kobe he even said himself that with Nash he can move back to hos natural position of being a flat out scorer instead of having to faciltate for others. Kobe is the primary reason Nash went to the Lakers. He heavily recruited him why would he do that if he wasn't willing to sacrifice a little bit? As for Nash/Parker debate here are each's stats each them faced each other in the playoffs.

2003 Playoffs:

Tony Parker :

16 points, 4 assists, 3 rebounds, 42 FG%.

Steve Nash :

15 points, 7 assists, 4 rebounds, 43 FG%.

2005 Playoffs

Tony Parker :

20 points, 4 assists, 3 rebounds, 46 FG%.

Steve Nash :

23 points, 11 assists, 4 rebounds, 52 FG%.

2007 Playoffs

Tony Parker :

21 points, 6 assists, 3 rebounds, 45 FG%.

Steve Nash :

21 points, 13 assists, 4 rebounds, 48 FG%.

2008 Playoffs

Tony Parker :

30 points, 7 assists, 4 rebounds, 52 FG%.

Steve Nash :

16 points, 8 assists, 3 rebounds, 46 FG%.

2010 Playoffs

Tony Parker :

20 points, 5 assists, 4 rebounds, 48 FG%.

Steve Nash :

22 points, 8 assists, 5 rebounds, 56 FG%.

Averages

Tony Parker:

21 points, 5 assists, 3 rebounds, 47 FG%.

Steve Nash:

19 points, 9 assists, 4 rebounds, 49 FG%.

So in all those playoff matchups Nash averaged more assists, more rebounds, and shot a higher FG%. Parker averaged slightly more points, but only because he shot more.

 

[RastaRocket]

Tony Parker is easily better than Nash at this point in his career. There is more to sports in numbers. Just watch TP play and anybody can see that. Nash isn't a scrub like some are making him out to be though, but if you think he is better than TP your a blind homer.

 

[MC KAos]

Lol great response wouldn't expect any less from you. I know like to act like Tony Parker is Magic Johnson, but he's not. Even at his age of 38 Steve Nash is still a better player. He's a MUCH, MUCH better playmaker and a much better shooter. Parker is a better scorer, but that's about it. Neither are great defenders. Give me Nash all day every day. You're also wrong about the Lakers training staff. They're every bit as good as Phoenix's. Parker has never destroyed Nash. Has he done well against him? Sure, but Nash has done well against Paroer as well.

:laugh2:

you must have missed all the spurs suns games from the past 7 years, because parker has always abused nash, he just cant stay with him. and nash hasnt done any better against parker than he does against anyone else. its not an accident that the spurs have dominated the suns since steve nash got there, any child with half a brain can see that, but i guess a blind homer cant.

 

[Noryb]

Tony Parker is easily better than Nash at this point in his career. There is more to sports in numbers. Just watch TP play and anybody can see that. Nash isn't a scrub like some are making him out to be though, but if you think he is better than TP your a blind homer.

And if you think he plays defense you are also a homer. I don't care what stats you pull up, he is a horrible defender. In fact, I don't even think he tries. His stats might also be helped by the fact that coaches hide him on defense. How bad can your stats be when your stuck in the corner guarding the Bruce Bowens of the world. I hate player comparisons when one of the players doesn't even have the ability/pride to guard the other player.

I said it before and I'll say it again there is a reason why this two time MVP has never played in a conference final and I' wouldn't be shocked if that streak continues next year.