Dak is not a Franchise QB

[kskboys]

Was the running game underutilized because the Panthers were loading up to shut it down and they needed Dak to make some throws to back them off? Was it a gameflow issue? Seemed like penalties and bad plays resulted in a lot of long yardage 2nd and 3rd downs which put more pressure on the passing game. I haven't watched it again so I'm just shooting from the hip there but that is certainly how it felt. FWIW the Giants have already said their gameplan will be to shut down the run and make Dak beat them throwing it so it could be a replay of Carolina if they can't counter that. I'd certainly like to see Zeke utilized more on screens and short routes to get the defense to at least take their foot off the hammer when it comes to getting in the backfield.

As for the other QB's, if they were consistently better on those other teams I would be more prone to agree with you. None of them have had any sustained success anywhere they've been. A couple games where they looked serviceable doesn't really sway my argument there.

We're talking backups here, Nate. No one is saying they were starting material. It's not sustained success you look for in a backup, it's just some success. Which is what you saw w/ other orgs. They looked beyond terrible here. And we're talking multiple examples. Gotta look at the data and process. Cassell, Weeden, Sanchez, Orton. All were a lot more successful elsewhere. That's a lot of examples.

And then look at what Kitna did. The O was better under him, because he ran it the way he saw fit. He'd been trained by another org to drive the bus.

I'm not arguing for one facet over another, I'm saying it's both.

 

[G2]

Oh, and it wasn't Romo helping Dak. It was Sanchez. A big deal was made out of it at the time.

Why do so many get that wrong? Romo was basically nowhere to be found.

 

[Aviano90]

Why do so many get that wrong? Romo was basically nowhere to be found.

Because they didn't pay attention or have been brainwashed into believing in the Legend of Tony Romo.

 

[G2]

Because they didn't pay attention or have been brainwashed into believing in the Legend of Tony Romo.

There are still Romo shrines all over the country in record numbers.

 

[nate dizzle]

We're talking backups here, Nate. No one is saying they were starting material. It's not sustained success you look for in a backup, it's just some success. Which is what you saw w/ other orgs. They looked beyond terrible here. And we're talking multiple examples. Gotta look at the data and process. Cassell, Weeden, Sanchez, Orton. All were a lot more successful elsewhere. That's a lot of examples.

And then look at what Kitna did. The O was better under him, because he ran it the way he saw fit. He'd been trained by another org to drive the bus.

I'm not arguing for one facet over another, I'm saying it's both.

I hear you. I just don't really see what you're seeing with these other guys I guess. None of them went anywhere after here and looked much better than when they were here in my opinion. If you look at what they've done elsewhere:

Weedon was 7-22. He played 3 games for us and lost all 3 but posted his 2nd to highest career average rating of 92 while with us. So doesn't seem like the coaches did THAT bad a job with him.

Cassel has been a bum everywhere he's been except 1 year in NE and 1 in KC. His career rating of 78 speaks for itself. He's just not good.

Sanchez had 1 good year, and a career rating of 73. My GOD he's worse than Cassel...

Orton is your best argument, and he played 1.5 games for us and had an average rating of 111, so our coaches seemed to do something right there as well. (Orton I felt was actually a pretty decent QB in his own right however)

Kitna had his highest average season rating while starting 9 games for us.

Now, taking into account that "stats aren't everything" but having a dodgy at best memory and really not being willing to go back and analyze 10 years of game film to get an "eyeball test," I think it can be factually stated that really none of them were undeniably better, statistically, anywhere else and if anything, actually did better while here.

 

[DandyDon52]

Wentz would have cost Zeke, Collins, Tapper and Taco.

THAT and with our offense and coaches wentz would not be as good as he is with the eagles.

 

[DandyDon52]

There are still Romo shrines all over the country in record numbers.

Jones boys made a mistake not going back to Romo for playoffs, and or last 2 games of reg season.
if he gets hurt again you have dak. we might have beat GB with romo.

2017 start Romo, and again you have dak if tony gets hurt or beat up, let dak play some games regardless.
Then when Romo retires or keeps getting hurt you go with dak.

They made a hasty decision to just assume dak was the new franchise qb. and made romo bkup.
now and last year they have had to live with that.
There were some good veterans to be had in offseason, but jones boys thought they didnt need any of them.

I watched kirk play minn vs SF and he looked pretty good there.
Alex smith looked good in wash game.
the others I havent looked at I want to see that tampa NO game next. I forget his name, but he did good in that game, 48 points.
Denver grabbed case keenum he won first game.

But I have to think none of those guys would do as well here in this mess.

 

[khiladi]

Lol, so you want me to find 3 brothers and a father that were involved in some capacity with the same NFL team to prove that JG had more than typical HC’ing “power”? This is so ridiculous, I should have never even responded (like you with the year and thoughts of the O line during the 85% shotgun approach).

Your last statement was at least well thought out and made you appear somewhat rational but this negates all of that. Way to go champ!

Of course I want you to find something SIMILAR, because that’s what the issue is about. We are discussing INFLUENCE on the direction of an organization and your claim Jason Garrett has been neutered by Jerry from the get-go.

The examples you provided have nothing to do with that, because a coach hiring his son in some capacity, such as a position coach to get his start doesn’t demonstrate in any way whatsoever influencing the directing of an organization. On the other hand, putting multiple people from the same family in KEY POSITIONS within the same organization shows a definite influence in the direction of an organization.

The reality is you have no examples and you can’t provide any evidence to your claims.

 

[khiladi]

a lot of Romo picks were from timing passes, misreads on what the WR is going to do, and the few he threw right to the defender (skins game that ended on a pick, last panthers game where the defense was running our routes, and the first game against 49ers in 2014 which btw no qb ever finished a season after starting a game like that at his age and that ended up being his best year)

No they were because of Jason Garrett as an OC and his brother as passing game coordinator and DBs knowing exactly what we were running, with no running game, and multiple free runners because Garrett couldn’t account for zone blitzes in his offense and the ‘last Panthers’ game was rushing Romo back to ‘save the seasom’ despite not even practicing and expecting him like usual to save the season, because we still were supposedly in playoff contention.

2014 was the ONLY year Jason Garrett was effectively taken out the equation when Tony Romo was here and he worked only with Linehan as far as play calling was concerned, with the running game and blocking still controlled by Callahan..

 

[aria]

Of course I want you to find something SIMILAR, because that’s what the issue is about. We are discussing INFLUENCE on the direction of an organization and your claim Jason Garrett has been neutered by Jerry from the get-go.

The examples you provided have nothing to do with that, because a coach hiring his son in some capacity, such as a position coach to get his start doesn’t demonstrate in any way whatsoever influencing the directing of an organization. On the other hand, putting multiple people from the same family in KEY POSITIONS within the same organization shows a definite influence in the direction of an organization.

The reality is you have no examples and you can’t provide any evidence to your claims.

Are you high? Did you even read the article? There are several examples that are more influential than what JG’s brothers were doing.

Regardless, I’m working today and don’t have time for your illogical bs. Have a good one.

 

[khiladi]

Are you high? Did you even read the article? There are several examples that are more influential than what JG’s brothers were doing.

Regardless, I’m working today and don’t have time for your illogical bs. Have a good one.

Of course you have time, which is why you are in here. No there isn’t any examples like the Garrett influence on this organization including Father Garrett who was a right hand man of Jerry for over two decades, alongside a Larry Lacewell, otherwise you would have pointed them out.

Now you’ve even changed the argument to say I said, JG has more than TYPICAL HC power.. so now you are basically admitting that Jason Garrett at minimum, has typical power any HC would, which basucally be more your argument he was neutered by Jerry Jones..

Good job..

 

[cern]

when jerry brought garrett to the cowboys as an oc, he stated he was his next hc in training. problem was, who was going to train him? jerry??

 

[Haimerej]

That's not what was said.

All QB's need the O based on their talents. So, all good teams change their personnel to fit their QB. We, OTOH, get a slant running WR for a QB who doesn't throw slants well. Romo and RoyW.

And now, I don't know what we're doing.

You were saying Dak is like Aikman and needed better route runners who were going to be where they're supposed to be. I always wondered where that comparison came from because Dak has always struggled anticipating guys getting open. There's plenty of evidence out there showing receivers getting open last Sunday and Dak not seeing it. It was almost like he didn't know where the routes were going.

 

[cern]

comparing dak to aikman is like comparing moonlight to sunlight and water to wine. (Tennyson)

 

[nate dizzle]

You were saying Dak is like Aikman and needed better route runners who were going to be where they're supposed to be. I always wondered where that comparison came from because Dak has always struggled anticipating guys getting open. There's plenty of evidence out there showing receivers getting open last Sunday and Dak not seeing it. It was almost like he didn't know where the routes were going.

It sure felt that way. I don't know if it's the lack of preseason snaps or poor film prep (which can be difficult for the first game of a season because who knows what kind of new wrinkles may be in store) or what it was but I have never seen him look as indecisive and poorly prepared as he did on Sunday. I haven't rewatched the game (and likely won't, once was painful enough) but I'm sure that some of those 6 sacks were a result of him not getting through his reads quickly and being too slow deciding where he was going with the ball.

 

[Haimerej]

It sure felt that way. I don't know if it's the lack of preseason snaps or poor film prep (which can be difficult for the first game of a season because who knows what kind of new wrinkles may be in store) or what it was but I have never seen him look as indecisive and poorly prepared as he did on Sunday. I haven't rewatched the game (and likely won't, once was painful enough) but I'm sure that some of those 6 sacks were a result of him not getting through his reads quickly and being too slow deciding where he was going with the ball.

I have rewatched it multiple times because I have some time off and some apparent masochistic tendencies. Without a doubt at least two sacks were on him.

 

[Cap12]

I have rewatched it multiple times because I have some time off and some apparent masochistic tendencies. Without a doubt at least two sacks were on him.

Yep. It's one thing to try to extend plays with your legs, but sometimes Dalk looks lile he's a contestant on Dancing With the Stars. There's too much movement and some of it quite unneccessary. Often, the kid is bring the ball down too much, instead of trusting his instincts and firing without hesitation. He doesn't have the arms strength to make these throws fading back, off his back foot. It's almost like he's afraid to make a mistake, so he fails in increments instead of on one play.

 

[aria]

Of course you have time, which is why you are in here. No there isn’t any examples like the Garrett influence on this organization including Father Garrett who was a right hand man of Jerry for over two decades, alongside a Larry Lacewell, otherwise you would have pointed them out.

Now you’ve even changed the argument to say I said, JG has more than TYPICAL HC power.. so now you are basically admitting that Jason Garrett at minimum, has typical power any HC would, which basucally be more your argument he was neutered by Jerry Jones..

Good job..

Have I posted in the past 2 hours? No. You have no idea what I’m saying although I’ve explained it to you several times. Somehow you think you prove a point because when I said JG has been neutered as a HC because I can’t come up with three brothers in the exact same position as the Garrett brothers that are employed by the same team. That’s absolutely ridiculous!

Do you even know that JG personally hired them or was it Jerry because hires lots of former players and is close with the family? Even if he did personally hire them you are laughable when you act like their positions were so much more important than position coaches or OC’s and DC’s that were mentioned in the article.

And for the 5th time you’ve ignored my question on the shotgun approach but you call me out for something as irrelevant and not exactly identical as the JG brother family comparison which doesn’t have anything to do with the original argument. Go to bed little boy.

 

[kskboys]

Why do so many get that wrong? Romo was basically nowhere to be found.

Agenda driven comments.

 

[kskboys]

I hear you. I just don't really see what you're seeing with these other guys I guess. None of them went anywhere after here and looked much better than when they were here in my opinion. If you look at what they've done elsewhere:

Weedon was 7-22. He played 3 games for us and lost all 3 but posted his 2nd to highest career average rating of 92 while with us. So doesn't seem like the coaches did THAT bad a job with him.

Cassel has been a bum everywhere he's been except 1 year in NE and 1 in KC. His career rating of 78 speaks for itself. He's just not good.

Sanchez had 1 good year, and a career rating of 73. My GOD he's worse than Cassel...

Orton is your best argument, and he played 1.5 games for us and had an average rating of 111, so our coaches seemed to do something right there as well. (Orton I felt was actually a pretty decent QB in his own right however)

Kitna had his highest average season rating while starting 9 games for us.

Now, taking into account that "stats aren't everything" but having a dodgy at best memory and really not being willing to go back and analyze 10 years of game film to get an "eyeball test," I think it can be factually stated that really none of them were undeniably better, statistically, anywhere else and if anything, actually did better while here.

Ok, since you're bound and determined in your beliefs, that's fine.