Final Escobar Numbers? 30 catches for 333 yards, 8 TD

[Sasquatch]

Leveon bell was taken one pick after Escobar :}

You just had to.

 

[superonyx]

I hope he goes elsewhere and goes off to make our front office and coaches look stupid. Even UDFA Scott Chandler had a great career after leaving Dallas.

Why exactly?
Your a cowboys fans who gets some weird satisfaction from making out front office look stupid.
You do realize we just had the best draft any team has had in over a decade right?
Have Escobar not be a fit for us won't make anyone look stupid and even if it did why would you actually want them looking that way?
Your weird dude.

 

[Stash]

I have no expectation of him whatsoever. There is little to nothing to go by other than Broaddus and he regurgitates suspect hearsay regarding Gathers.

It wouldn't take much to make up for Escobar's 'production'. If Swaim doesn't get hurt, Escobar barely sees the field. That's a low bar to have to hit.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

He had a key block on the outside (Jones, LB) on the game winning Zeke run in PIT, allowing him a clean hole to the 3-gap (Tyron was a master on the same play). I would love to re-sign him and actually use him

He's got to be better than Travis Kelce who was drafted one round later by KC. He's got to be. Right?

 

[WeaponX]

It's totally off base. We just used the #4 overall pick - our greatest draft commodity in decades - to fill a position that would have already been filled. Try to argue that.

I'm not arguing that. That is, in fact true, and I think we made the right pick and it's turned out well for us so far.



I was arguing your offbase comment about "not missing much". It's completely false.

In the context of Dal RB production 2013-2016 vs. Le'Veon Bell production 2013-2016, it is not false at all.

I think you're getting a little hung up on the "not much" verbiage. I'm not saying Bell is "not much", he's certainly great, but I am saying that we haven't missed much in the context of his production vs. our own, which we haven't, as pointed out above. Try to argue that.

 

[WeaponX]

Honestly, both of you make good points and this is a good discussion. I wasn't aware bell was 1 pick after Escobar.

I do agree that it was just a matter of timing. Murray was good in 13 and 14 while bell at that time wasn't the player he is now. Ironically both Murray and bell were top 5 in rushing this year, so it could be a wash. Murray was also finishing up his rookie deal which is why maybe the Cowboys weren't interested in bell at the time. It would of been sweet to take bell over Escobar though.

I also agree that taking bell would of saved the resources used for randle, McFadden, Morris, and even Elliot. If we would of taken bell and made him our franchise rb our drafts would most likely have played out very differently.

I agree with all of this - my point was that we've had equal (or better) production without him. This turned into a Bell discussion, but my original point was that we could have addressed defense in 2013 instead of Bell or Escobar, which is similar to the argument being used re: draft capital now.

 

[Stash]

In the context of Dal RB production 2013-2016 vs. Le'Veon Bell production 2013-2016, it is not false at all.

I think you're getting a little hung up on the "not much" verbiage. I'm not saying Bell is "not much", he's certainly great, but I am saying that we haven't missed much in the context of his production vs. our own, which we haven't, as pointed out above. Try to argue that.

And you're flat out wrong. What I'm "hung up" on is you using the completely wrong words in an attempt to minimize what was, in fact, an enormous mistake.

 

[Supercowboy1986]

I agree with all of this - my point was that we've had equal (or better) production without him. This turned into a Bell discussion, but my original point was that we could have addressed defense in 2013 instead of Bell or Escobar, which is similar to the argument being used re: draft capital now.

Yea, I think that's where your position wasn't clear when you were talking about production versus talent/ability.

I don't think anyone disagrees that bell is the superior player overall compared to Murray but you were saying Murray was more productive in 13 and 14 than bell.

 

[IrishAnto]

Then you look at average NFL lifespan and you see that you are wrong. The average career of an NFL player is 3.3 years. The average career of a player that makes an NFL opening day roster is 6. Predicting 10 is wishful thinking. The NFL is a young man's game and most players don't make it to 30 before washing out.

The rest is moving the goalposts. I already stated that we missed given that we have not signed one to a second contract. That does not mean that hitting on a TE would not be a good thing.

When did I say hitting on a TE is a bad thing?

The average is 3.3 but many players have much longer careers and the afore mentioned Fasno and Bennett are well beyond that, so don't tell me it's not possible especially with the OL.

In addition it's not just about this year, how about 2014 or earlier?

Could we not have used somebody other than Fasno/Bennett?

 

[CowboyStar88]

He was fortunate to stay in the way on that play.
I wouldn't call that strong. He nearly got backed into the play.
But I give him an "A" for effort.

He's always been aloof... a surfer dude from So California area.
Has the skill to be a decent TE in wide sets. Not sure he wants it badly.

 

[Trouty]

DON'T FORGET WE HAVE THE IGNORE FEATURE.

Almost did, Sarge. Almost went to the dark side. Thanks for the reminder

 

[Trouty]

He's got to be better than Travis Kelce who was drafted one round later by KC. He's got to be. Right?

Travis Kelce is a boss, Zimmy

Really, Esco reminds me of Jimmy Graham

 

[Trouty]

Don't get too worked up about as I often do myself. Trouty's a good guy. It's just a difference of opinion.



It's something I'm working on! As I've said, I'm passionate too and sometimes let my emotions get the best of me. If nothing else, I agree to disagree and move on. But I'm still a work in progress.

Thanks, Stash I'm a work in progress, too. But even two months ago and I'd be benched right now from some of the stuff in this thread (personal insults, not opinions) so I must be getting better, myself

 

[WeaponX]

And you're flat out wrong. What I'm "hung up" on is you using the completely wrong words in an attempt to minimize what was, in fact, an enormous mistake.

The mistake was drafting Escobar, yes. Not drafting Bell, however, was not a mistake in my opinion, and it clearly was in your opinion. Problem with that, is both of our opinions are subjective.

Objectively, our RBs (Murrray included) did, in fact, outproduce Bell in every category (Rushing yards, yard per carry, TDs, yards from scrimmage) except receiving yards in every single season we've discussed (2013-2016, exempting 2015).

I'm sorry but I'm not "flat out wrong" and I believe a defender in 2013 would have made a much bigger impact on our overall success as a team then and subsequently now than Bell would have.

I do appreciate your conviction though and have enjoyed hearing your argument.

 

[WeaponX]

Yea, I think that's where your position wasn't clear when you were talking about production versus talent/ability.

I don't think anyone disagrees that bell is the superior player overall compared to Murray but you were saying Murray was more productive in 13 and 14 than bell.

I was actually just saying that any drop off or extra production from a Bell would not have been much.

I do agree Bell is the better player but Murray actually did outproduce him in 2013 and 2014 (by a small margin in 2014).

I concede I should have used a different word or been clearer, because Bell is a stud. I didn't initially elaborate because my main point was that I would have rather taken Collins or Logan instead of Bell or Escobar.

 

[BigStar]

Stupid?

Fasano has played 11 years. Bennett has played nine.

We picked quality players. Tons of second round picks taken those years are out of the league.

So sad to see board members with no perspective

? We picked quality players and never used them; wasting a great resource in a 2nd round pick. That's better?.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

"All he does is catch touchdowns!"

 

[Supercowboy1986]

I was actually just saying that any drop off or extra production from a Bell would not have been much.

I do agree Bell is the better player but Murray actually did outproduce him in 2013 and 2014 (by a small margin in 2014).

I concede I should have used a different word or been clearer, because Bell is a stud. I didn't initially elaborate because my main point was that I would have rather taken Collins or Logan instead of Bell or Escobar.

No harm no foul. I understood what you were trying to say from the get go.

 

[Stash]

The mistake was drafting Escobar, yes. Not drafting Bell, however, was not a mistake in my opinion, and it clearly was in your opinion. Problem with that, is both of our opinions are subjective.

Maybe so, but what is not "subjective" is the fact that we would not have had to use the #4 overall pick in 2016 on a running back if we had drafted Le'Veon Bell. That's an undeniable fact.

Objectively, our RBs (Murrray included) did, in fact, outproduce Bell in every category (Rushing yards, yard per carry, TDs, yards from scrimmage) except receiving yards in every single season we've discussed (2013-2016, exempting 2015).

I'm not even arguing that. I'm talking about the fact that we wouldn't have had to use a 1st rounder in 2016 because the position would have been filled. We also wouldn't have had to invest in Randle, McFadden, or Morris. And that shows your claim of "not missing much" to be totally inaccurate.

I'm sorry but I'm not "flat out wrong" and I believe a defender in 2013 would have made a much bigger impact on our overall success as a team then and subsequently now than Bell would have.

I do appreciate your conviction though and have enjoyed hearing your argument.

I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing your incorrect use of the term "not missing much". That's completely inaccurate.

 

[Stash]

The mistake was drafting Escobar, yes. Not drafting Bell, however, was not a mistake in my opinion, and it clearly was in your opinion. Problem with that, is both of our opinions are subjective.

Objectively, our RBs (Murrray included) did, in fact, outproduce Bell in every category (Rushing yards, yard per carry, TDs, yards from scrimmage) except receiving yards in every single season we've discussed (2013-2016, exempting 2015).

I'm sorry but I'm not "flat out wrong" and I believe a defender in 2013 would have made a much bigger impact on our overall success as a team then and subsequently now than Bell would have.

I do appreciate your conviction though and have enjoyed hearing your argument.

For the record, despite adamantly disagreeing, I've enjoyed the conversation as well. And I hope you realize where I'm coming from.