First impressive Jaylon video

[CalPolyTechnique]

No, I am talking about the information I have at hand.

Your problem, tweedle, is that I don't make my arguments about me.

There is a report from George in the DMN last month stating that the nerve has started firing but his body's reaction is catching up to the nerve.

You can see the foot dropping in the video of him jumping on the trampolines. They do not have his feet taped and there is no brace or bulk of a brace to be seen. It is what it is.

I hope that you understand that by taping foot around the arch and ankle acts to hold the foot up much like a brace. I don't discount Werder saying he would still need a brace given the massive tape job he gets in the other drills. That tells me he still needs to support for quicker movements.

It's a matter of degree but you appear to have missed the nuance.

As for Chao, you have him doomsaying after 12 months as opposed to Dr Cooper who have a timeframe of up to 15 months. I am not going to use all the unethical things Chao has done to make an argument. I don't need to.

Chao is not Jaylon's doctor and is not privy to the same information that Cooper is. When choosing who to believe when you ahve two people with mutually exclusive opinion as we do here I choose the more informed opinion which Cooper unquestionably has.

Further I have read and posted studies that show that the innervation process can take months. We have had posters with similar injuries relay the same. I will start to worry as May rolls around.

As for you, you seem intent on putting people in their places. You like to tell people that they are acting "too big for their britches." Thing is that people like you are almost invariably really only concerned about their own place. I don't allow others own sense of inferiority dictate where I stand.

You are welcome to believe whatever you like. There is still an objective truth to be discussed outside of people's places in the world.

Your issue dingo is that you treat your conclusions as the infallible truth.

Secondly, his foot was not dropping abnormally in that video (and he wasn't on a trampoline genius). Both feet are articulated downwards the way your feet point forward when coming down.

I'll agree with you that I'll take Dr. Cooper's prognosis over Chao's but it's glib to dismiss his professional opinion outright. We got a guy on this board some folks believe is a medical doctor giving actual percentages of how far along Jaylon is in his rehab. That's equally hilarious as it is disturbing.

As far as your evaluation of me, don't try to turn this into a "we vs. you" dynamic. My issue is with you being a blowhard and I'll continue to call you out when you act that way. Your "I don't allow others sense of inferiority..." bit is nothing more than a dim-witted appeal to "haters" when you're called-out.

 

[waldoputty]

No, I am talking about the information I have at hand.

Your problem, tweedle, is that I don't make my arguments about me.

There is a report from George in the DMN last month stating that the nerve has started firing but his body's reaction is catching up to the nerve.

You can see the foot dropping in the video of him jumping on the trampolines. They do not have his feet taped and there is no brace or bulk of a brace to be seen. It is what it is.

I hope that you understand that by taping foot around the arch and ankle acts to hold the foot up much like a brace. I don't discount Werder saying he would still need a brace given the massive tape job he gets in the other drills. That tells me he still needs to support for quicker movements.

It's a matter of degree but you appear to have missed the nuance.

As for Chao, you have him doomsaying after 12 months as opposed to Dr Cooper who have a timeframe of up to 15 months. I am not going to use all the unethical things Chao has done to make an argument. I don't need to.

Chao is not Jaylon's doctor and is not privy to the same information that Cooper is. When choosing who to believe when you ahve two people with mutually exclusive opinion as we do here I choose the more informed opinion which Cooper unquestionably has.

Further I have read and posted studies that show that the innervation process can take months. We have had posters with similar injuries relay the same. I will start to worry as May rolls around. OTOH, he is posting videos detailing steady progress. The trampolines are a big step.

As for you, you seem intent on putting people in their places. You like to tell people that they are acting "too big for their britches." Thing is that people like you are almost invariably really only concerned about their own place. I don't allow others own sense of inferiority dictate where I stand.

You are welcome to believe whatever you like. There is still an objective truth to be discussed outside of people's places in the world.

Fuzzy, I searched to see who you were talking to, but could not find it.
Then I realized it is one of the people I ignored lol

I dont see how anyone can discount the trampoline exercise.
If he has total footdrop, he would not be able to land and definitely not jump back up.
Furthermore, he jumped back up totally straight into the air...
Wonder why some people refuse to admit the simple situation
Does not take a MD
Not a PhD
Just some objectivity...

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Fuzzy, I searched to see who you were talking to, but could not find it.
Then I realized it is one of the people I ignored lol

I dont see how anyone can discount the trampoline exercise.
If he has total footdrop, he would not be able to land and definitely not jump back up.
Furthermore, he jumped back up totally straight into the air...
Wonder why some people refuse to admit the simple situation
Does not take a MD
Not a PhD
Just some objectivity...

Lol, smh.

Then he must have "drop foot" in both feet because the articulation of both through the jumping/landing motion perfectly match each other.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Lol, smh.

Then he must have "drop foot" in both feet because the articulation of both through the jumping/landing motion perfectly match each other.

Here is a slow motion video of someone jumping rope.



Note how the feet articulate. They point down then come up before landing.

You are right to say that the obviously unbraced right foot matches the left foot in question. Both are able to come up which is the entire point.

You realize that the key to drop foot is that you are not able to pick your foot back up right?

 

[waldoputty]

Here is a slow motion video of someone jumping rope.



Note how the feet articulate. They point down then come up before landing.

You are right to say that the obviously unbraced right foot matches the left foot in question. Both are able to come up which is the entire point.

You realize that the key to drop foot is that you are not able to pick your foot back up right?

lol, it does not get any clearer than that.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

lol, it does not get any clearer than that.

Well he left as opposed to admitting we had made a point. He has already ignored my other post before that.

That tells me he sees it. Machismo is predictable if nothing else.

 

[waldoputty]

Well he left as opposed to admitting we had made a point. He has already ignored my other post before that.

That tells me he sees it. Machismo is predictable if nothing else.

i think dr jerry did a big disserve with the repeated use of the word 'firing'.
it makes people think it is boolean - on or off.
all the medical and research people have said there are many degrees of 'firing'...
he is clearly 'firing' in the video or there is no way he can do what he was doing.
good grief
is it going to be 100%, no one knows, but it looks like it is progressing

did you see the statistical distribution of the responses to i 'plotted' in my betting thread?
you got a bell curve in the middle, but 2 large peaks at both the optimistic and the pessimistic extremes - a truly statistical phenomenon lol
peaks on the optimistic end is understandable for fans who are supposed to have rose color glasses.
but the peak on the pessimistic extreme is surreal for fans of the team...
swear to god, there will be a small # of people that would be unhappy when Jaylon has success...

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Here is a slow motion video of someone jumping rope.



Note how the feet articulate. They point down then come up before landing.

You are right to say that the obviously unbraced right foot matches the left foot in question. Both are able to come up which is the entire point.

You realize that the key to drop foot is that you are not able to pick your foot back up right?

Sorry, I'm at work while you nitwits are claiming victory.

I know what exactly dropfoot is which is why your analysis is empty. How does that relate to what you said in post #65 that his toes would be pointing down if he had drop foot? You point your toes down when you land when jumping otherwise you'd be landing on your heal or flat-footed. Drop foot doesn't affect your ability to push off or jump. An AFO does not prohibit you from flexing your toes downward.

Let's just assume he has dropfoot and wasn't wearing a brace. Do you actually think his dropfoot would somehow cause his foot to hyper-extend past the normal degree of flexion it would otherwise? No. Of course it wouldn't.

You're staking your claim in assuming he wasn't wearing an AFO when he was "jumping on a trampoline." You don't know that despite what you think. Many players wear multiple socks (Deion and Tom Brady wear what looks like three or four pair).

 

[T-RO]

He didn't finish the thought. Hating would be to use the brace as a reason to say why he still is not and won't be any good.

You'll have to walk me through the logic of this.

 

[Vinnie2u]

If there was no problem with the foot don't you think Jaylon would tweet out a pic of him doing something obviously showing he wasn't wearing a brace? With Jerry having a Koolaid smile in the background? Just saying.

 

[TheHerd]

I'm not going to guess on the level of recovery Smith has attained, but that video looks pretty encouraging.

Before I believe Dr. Chao, or any of the doctors on this forum for that matter, I'll never forget the words from a cardiologist years ago. My youngest son was born with some very serious heart issues, and we spent most of his first 6 months at Boston Children's Hospital. Because I'm an engineer, I wanted to know everything, and his cardiologists and surgeons were happy to white board all sorts of in depth descriptions of infant hearts and the conditions we were facing. Anyway, after it was over and they had successfully patched him together and sent us on our way, his main cardiologist gave me some wisdom and advice.

He let me know that I would be more of an expert on the cardio issues and health of my son than any other doctor he would ever have, and he warned me that many doctors would try to convince me otherwise because they MD in their name. He made sure I understood that even though those doctors may have expert knowledge in some areas, they would feign expertise in this particular area because they knew most people would simply accept their word due to the amount of time and money they invested to get the MD.

So my takeaway is unless a doctor is not only a specialist AND also has inside knowledge and information of the specific case, their diagnosis is at best a guess based on some average of cases they've heard about.

 

[waldoputty]

If there was no problem with the foot don't you think Jaylon would tweet out a pic of him doing something obviously showing he wasn't wearing a brace? With Jerry having a Koolaid smile in the background? Just saying.

The brace does not help him push up to jump.
That is the motion that was disabled when the nerve was injured.
My guess is that he is still recovering, but the recovery has been enough for him to jump up.
Take a good look at the video that fuzzy posted - you can see the action of the foot as someone is jumping rope.
Not only is he jumping up repeatedly and quickly.
The force exerted by his left foot and his right foot is similar or he would not be jumping straight up.

Any docs feel free to join in...

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If there was no problem with the foot don't you think Jaylon would tweet out a pic of him doing something obviously showing he wasn't wearing a brace? With Jerry having a Koolaid smile in the background? Just saying.

You mean like jumping on trampolines without a brace on or hanging around the house with his nieces without the brace on?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Sorry, I'm at work while you nitwits are claiming victory.

I know what exactly dropfoot is which is why your analysis is empty. How does that relate to what you said in post #65 that his toes would be pointing down if he had drop foot? You point your toes down when you land when jumping otherwise you'd be landing on your heal or flat-footed. Drop foot doesn't affect your ability to push off or jump. An AFO does not prohibit you from flexing your toes downward.

Let's just assume he has dropfoot and wasn't wearing a brace. Do you actually think his dropfoot would somehow cause his foot to hyper-extend past the normal degree of flexion it would otherwise? No. Of course it wouldn't.

You're staking your claim in assuming he wasn't wearing an AFO when he was "jumping on a trampoline." You don't know that despite what you think. Many players wear multiple socks (Deion and Tom Brady wear what looks like three or four pair).

When you jump most people land on the balls of their feet. That is not the same as what you are describing. In order to include the calf in the range of motion you have to stand up tip toe as part of the motion. You can see it in the video I provided.

An AFO inhibits the range of motion and holds the foot up; that is why I am talking about the foot dropping. His left foot is clearly dipping down to include the calf which the AFO is designed to prevent. You admit yourself that both feet are going through the same range of motion.

Saying that you can dip your toes in an AFO is just ignorant. You cannot fold your foot in half. At best you can scrunch your toes up. he is wearing shoes.

You can see an AFO through socks. Multiple socks or not one leg would have the brace breaking uniformity. Both legs look uniform.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

When you jump most people land on the balls of their feet. That is not the same as what you are describing. In or

der to include the calfin the range of motion you have to stand up tip toe as part of the motion. You can see it in the video I provided.

An AFO inhibits the range of motion and holds the foot up; that is why I am talking about the foot dropping. His left foot is clearly dipping down to include the calf which the AFO is designed to prevent. You admit yourself that both feet are going through the same range of motion.


Saying that you can dip your toes in an AFO is just ignorant. You cannot fold your foot in half. At best you can scrunch your toes up. he is wearing shoes.

You can see an AFO through socks. Multiple socks or not one leg would have the brace breaking uniformity. Both legs look uniform.

WTH, are you talking about?

First, landing on the "balls of your feet" is the same has landing with the forefoot pointed down, which is exactly what I'm talking about and not be confused with landing toes first in the literal sense. You're straining to make up a point of conflict.

Second, what's your point about the calf being in the range of motion? It's not something I'm even disputing so why bring it up?

Third, you're flatly wrong about the function of an AFO, at least in regard to this important nuance...drop foot DOES NOT cause your foot to actively point down as if your muscles are ceased pointing your toes down and where an AFO is needed to somehow counteract that force. Rather, your leg/foot simply doesn't have the nerve impulse to command the muscle to dorsiflex (i.e. pull up). It's the very reason why doctors use the word "flaccid" to describe the effects of drop foot. The AFO provides flexion to allow you to push off your toes as you would with a natural gate and THEN provides support by lifting your forefoot back up (dorisflexion) so your heel can strike first. That's exactly why Jaylon looks normal and great with his AFO on. If the AFO was rigidly preventing him from pointing his toes down, he'd be stomping around with his left leg flat-footed like Frankenstein.

And in your classic intellectually dishonest way, you've managed to find a clumsy and bulky looking AFO to paste. As if a modern athlete on a billion dollar NFL franchise couldn't afford something better such as what's provided below.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

Fascinating.

 

[big dog cowboy]

No, I am talking about the information I have at hand.

Your problem, tweedle, is that I don't make my arguments about me.

There is a report from George in the DMN last month stating that the nerve has started firing but his body's reaction is catching up to the nerve.

You can see the foot dropping in the video of him jumping on the trampolines. They do not have his feet taped and there is no brace or bulk of a brace to be seen. It is what it is.

I hope that you understand that by taping foot around the arch and ankle acts to hold the foot up much like a brace. I don't discount Werder saying he would still need a brace given the massive tape job he gets in the other drills. That tells me he still needs to support for quicker movements.

It's a matter of degree but you appear to have missed the nuance.

As for Chao, you have him doomsaying after 12 months as opposed to Dr Cooper who have a timeframe of up to 15 months. I am not going to use all the unethical things Chao has done to make an argument. I don't need to.

Chao is not Jaylon's doctor and is not privy to the same information that Cooper is. When choosing who to believe when you ahve two people with mutually exclusive opinion as we do here I choose the more informed opinion which Cooper unquestionably has.

Further I have read and posted studies that show that the innervation process can take months. We have had posters with similar injuries relay the same. I will start to worry as May rolls around. OTOH, he is posting videos detailing steady progress. The trampolines are a big step.

As for you, you seem intent on putting people in their places. You like to tell people that they are acting "too big for their britches." Thing is that people like you are almost invariably really only concerned about their own place. I don't allow others own sense of inferiority dictate where I stand.

You are welcome to believe whatever you like. There is still an objective truth to be discussed outside of people's places in the world.

Post of the day.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Foot down on the way up

Flat foot at top of jump

Down again to land on balls of feet.

You can stop the video in the OP and advance if frame by frame to see Jaylon bend his ankle to push his foott down and the pick it back up through the range of motion.

I was mistaken about the trampolines. He is just jumping over hurdles.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Post of the day.

So you applaud the points fuzzy makes about Chao not being Jaylon's doctor and how unethical it is to make a prognosis on a patient that is not his own (which I fully agree with), but yet you fully endorse a supposed doctor on a message board that was doing the very same thing Chao was doing? Professional ethics aside, at least Chao can be verified as an actual doctor.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Foot down on the way up [BOTH feet down on the way up because you push off that way when you jump]

Flat foot at top of jump [BOTH feet flat at the top of the jump]

Down again to land on balls of feet. [BOTH feet pointing toes down in anticipation of landing]

You can stop the video in the OP and advance if frame by frame to see Jaylon bend his ankle to push his foott down and the pick it back up through the range of motion.

I was mistaken about the trampolines. He is just jumping over hurdles.[Yeah, you can do ALL of that with an AFO]