First impressive Jaylon video

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So you applaud the points fuzzy makes about Chao not being Jaylon's doctor and how unethical it is to make a prognosis on a patient that is not his own (which I fully agree with), but yet you fully endorse a supposed doctor on a message board that was doing the very same thing Chao was doing? Professional ethics aside, at least Chao can be verified as an actual doctor.

Way to cherry pick one thing out of near a dozen points I made in the post.

I didn't say anything about ethics. I specifically stated that I was not making the argument. My argument was that Cooper's opinion is more informed than Chao's.

As for you additions to my post in the next post, all I can say is that you have no idea how an AFO works nor what drop foot does.

You cannot pick up your toes like that with drop foot. You cannot bend your foot down at the ankle with an AFO on.

He does both.

I've enjoyed our discussion. Given the responses and likes I have gotten it appears that I have gotten through to quite a few people. You are to the point where you don't seem to know what you are talking about so I see no point in moving forward.

I'll leave you with the following youtubes which will corroborate what I am talking about regarding what footdrop and an AFO prevent you from doing:

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Way to cherry pick one thing out of near a dozen points I made in the post.

I didn't say anything about ethics. I specifically stated that I was not making the argument. My argument was that Cooper's opinion is more informed than Chao's.

As for you additions to my post in the next post, all I can say is that you have no idea how an AFO works nor what drop foot does.

You cannot pick up your toes like that with drop foot. You cannot bend your foot down at the ankle with an AFO on.

He does both.

I've enjoyed our discussion. Given the responses and likes I have gotten it appears that I have gotten through to quite a few people. You are to the point where you don't seem to know what you are talking about so I see no point in moving forward.

I'll leave you with the following youtubes which will corroborate what I am talking about regarding what footdrop and an AFO prevent you from doing:

Your strident confidence in the face of your cluelessness is adorable.

You absolutely can bend your foot down with an AFO dependent on all the outside variables with any injury (severity, stage in recovery, etc.).

"all I can say is that you have no idea how an AFO works nor what drop foot does."

Yep, you're done.

Ask yourself this...you've seen video of Jaylon running around doing drills with an AFO on and for the most part look rather normal doing them. If he could not flex his forefoot down as you claim because the AFO was rigidly keeping his foot/ankle at a 90 degree angle then he'd be running flat-footed and stomping around with his left foot. The reason why he can walk and run with a normal looking gate is because the AFO allows his foot to fully articulate the same way you would naturally, which includes pushing off your forefoot when moving forward.

And the flexion of your toes has to do with the severity of the injury and/or the point you're at in your recovery. That comes back as you advance in your recovery. In fact, the big toe is typically the last toe to regain full function from the rest.

It's better that you bail now instead of continuing to get exposed as a blowhard.

 

[tyke1doe]

I'm not going to guess on the level of recovery Smith has attained, but that video looks pretty encouraging.

Before I believe Dr. Chao, or any of the doctors on this forum for that matter, I'll never forget the words from a cardiologist years ago. My youngest son was born with some very serious heart issues, and we spent most of his first 6 months at Boston Children's Hospital. Because I'm an engineer, I wanted to know everything, and his cardiologists and surgeons were happy to white board all sorts of in depth descriptions of infant hearts and the conditions we were facing. Anyway, after it was over and they had successfully patched him together and sent us on our way, his main cardiologist gave me some wisdom and advice.

He let me know that I would be more of an expert on the cardio issues and health of my son than any other doctor he would ever have, and he warned me that many doctors would try to convince me otherwise because they MD in their name. He made sure I understood that even though those doctors may have expert knowledge in some areas, they would feign expertise in this particular area because they knew most people would simply accept their word due to the amount of time and money they invested to get the MD.

So my takeaway is unless a doctor is not only a specialist AND also has inside knowledge and information of the specific case, their diagnosis is at best a guess based on some average of cases they've heard about.

But if it's a doctor vs. a non-doctor, who are you logically going to believe or who should you believe? Who has the most credibility on medical issues?

 

[raichledog]

He is not wearing the brace when he is jumping on the trampolines; you can see the foot 'dropping' and he would have to be able to pick it up before landing or he would land toes down.

Chao's 1 year death knell is not a legitimate timetable. It has been repudiated by Jaylon's own doctor who said up to 15 months.

Chao strikes me as a guy that has called his shot and is going to stick with it come hell or high water.

I've read this a couple times... are you referencing the beginning of this video where he is jumping? There are no trampolines, he is jumping off of the ground over the obstacles.

Or maybe I am blind

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

None of this really matters and in reality it may not matter if the dude has to wear a brace or not. I don't even care what drills he can or can't do. Even the timelines given by doctors are just guesses.

How he performs on the field is all that matters and he doesn't need to prove that until at least OTAs and in reality not until August. If he can do it without a brace, great. If he needs a brace, so be it. As a fan I hope it works out. If it doesn't I'll be disappointed but not necessarily surprised.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I've read this a couple times... are you referencing the beginning of this video where he is jumping? There are no trampolines, he is jumping off of the ground over the obstacles.

Or maybe I am blind

You are correct and I was mistaken. I picked up on my mistake in a later post. He is jumping over hurdles.

All else is the same though. He drops his foot and brings it back up repeatedly as he jumps.

 

[waldoputty]

Foot down on the way up

Flat foot at top of jump

Down again to land on balls of feet.

You can stop the video in the OP and advance if frame by frame to see Jaylon bend his ankle to push his foott down and the pick it back up through the range of motion.

I was mistaken about the trampolines. He is just jumping over hurdles.

Fuzzy, great job getting those pics


Just so it is absolutely crystal clear, Fuzzy just in a frame-by-frame fashion showed EVERYONE that Jaylon is able to move his feet up and down. Someone with total foot drop CANNOT do that.

Mayo Clinic's definition of foot drop: Foot drop, sometimes called drop foot, is a general term for difficulty lifting the front part of the foot. If you have foot drop, you may drag the front of your foot on the ground when you walk.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/foot-drop/basics/definition/con-20032918

 

[waldoputty]

But if it's a doctor vs. a non-doctor, who are you logically going to believe or who should you believe? Who has the most credibility on medical issues?

you dont need a doctor when the video showed you that Jaylon moved his feet up and down.
that is the definition of what someone who has foot drop CANNOT do.

 

[waldoputty]

None of this really matters and in reality it may not matter if the dude has to wear a brace or not. I don't even care what drills he can or can't do. Even the timelines given by doctors are just guesses.

How he performs on the field is all that matters and he doesn't need to prove that until at least OTAs and in reality not until August. If he can do it without a brace, great. If he needs a brace, so be it. As a fan I hope it works out. If it doesn't I'll be disappointed but not necessarily surprised.

It matters because he would probably play better without the brace.
Though he may wear some type of brace for preventive reasons because he may not be 100% recovered and could be predisposed to ankle injury because of the nerve injury.
I know people with a 100% nerve injury recovery but the nerve could sometimes give out when used to much...

 

[TRUTH87]

It matters because he would probably play better without the brace.
Though he may wear some type of brace for preventive reasons because he may not be 100% recovered and could be predisposed to ankle injury because of the nerve injury.
I know people with a 100% nerve injury recovery but the nerve could sometimes give out when used to much...

another reason why i think dallas will ease him in the lineup. we cant overuse his nerve. i expect full recovery but not a big differnce maker YET as a player.

i can already see by the end of the year all the threads bashing Jerry and calling jaylon a bust. 2018 id say would be the year hes ALL IN.

 

[Sydla]

I know a lot of posters on here don't give Dr. Chao any credit. I'm just sharing this info from Werder and Chao.

Why should we give Chao, a doctor with a very checkered past, who is diagnosing Smith from afar from videos any credit?

As someone else said, he's made his call and now will stick to it. If he's right he can tell everyone. If he's wrong, he'll ignore it and it will just disappear and he'll find other players to diagnose via twitter.

 

[Sydla]

The hubris with some posters is incredible.

So folks instantly reject what's being reported by Werder and dismiss a verified doctor weighing-in with his professional opinion in favor of board members that claim they're doctors and the conclusions of Joe Blow deducing what he can from examining photographs?

We all want Jaylon to heal up but dismissing contrary news because you don't like what's being said isn't going to make it happen.

Well in fairness, I see the point you are making but let's note that Werder isn't always right. Secondly, Chao is a guy who has a litany of past issues as a doctor so I am not sure I'd take what he says as fact. He's botched internet prognoses before. He's been caught saying a guy tore his ACL based on the video he saw and then it turns out he was wrong. Chao has largely been discredited, he's had his license reviewed in the past and he's probably desperate to get back into some sort of sports medicine gig after basically being blackballed by the NFL (although they will say that's not true).

So you can call it hubris if you want, but I won't put much stock in what Chao says. I will wait for reports team doctors, etc.

 

[tyke1doe]

you dont need a doctor when the video showed you that Jaylon moved his feet up and down.
that is the definition of what someone who has foot drop CANNOT do.

I figured as much. But, again, I'm not a doctor so I don't know everything a person should or shouldn't be able to do with drop foot.

That being said, I guess my issue is not with what we can obviously see (i.e., if a guy is running and cutting, it doesn't take a doctor to see that his ACL and MCL aren't torn), but what we can't, i.e., nerve healing, nerve firing. I would lean more toward the opinion of a doctor, and in particular, a specialist who is trained in and has knowledge of how a nerve should be firing and when it should be firing, than I would a non-medical layman.

That's my point.

I appreciate everyone chiming in and giving their opinions, but, for me, I'm going to lean toward a person who has actually studied the human body and who knows a bit more about this subject from an experiential level than I would someone who hasn't/doesn't.

 

[waldoputty]

I figured as much. But, again, I'm not a doctor so I don't know everything a person should or shouldn't be able to do with drop foot.

That being said, I guess my issue is not with what we can obviously see (i.e., if a guy is running and cutting, it doesn't take a doctor to see that his ACL and MCL aren't torn), but what we can't, i.e., nerve healing, nerve firing. I would lean more toward the opinion of a doctor, and in particular, a specialist who is trained in and has knowledge of how a nerve should be firing and when it should be firing, than I would a non-medical layman.

That's my point.

I appreciate everyone chiming in and giving their opinions, but, for me, I'm going to lean toward a person who has actually studied the human body and who knows a bit more about this subject from an experiential level than I would someone who hasn't/doesn't.

Right, you need a doctor to measure his nerve function and conduction performance.
But there is a difference between the foot moving up and down vs running.
He can run wearing a brace with drop foot- he was running over the summer.
Some doctors have posted that he could cut decently even with drop foot.
The brace will not help him move his feet up and down though.
Yet Fuzzy just broke the video down to show exactly that.
So here it is - Jaylon has tweeted the evidence and it has literally hit us in the face.
Here is the evidence of some level of 'firing' and nerve reconnecting to the muscle.

How much more nerve reconnecting is needed for 100% recovery, that is for the specialist who is examining him to say. But they are not saying and that is all we get.

 

[tyke1doe]

Right, you need a doctor to measure his nerve function and conduction performance.
But there is a difference between the foot moving up and down vs running.
He can run wearing a brace with drop foot- he was running over the summer.
Some doctors have posted that he could cut decently even with drop foot.
The brace will not help him move his feet up and down though.
Yet Fuzzy just broke the video down to show exactly that.
So here it is - Jaylon has tweeted the evidence and it has literally hit us in the face.
Here is the evidence of some level of 'firing' and nerve reconnecting to the muscle.

How much more nerve reconnecting is needed for 100% recovery, that is for the specialist who is examining him to say. But they are not saying and that is all we get.

Fair enough. I'm not one way or the other. I think my original comment is he looks like he's healing and the nerve is firing to me. And I believe him when he says the nerve is firing. He should know better than anyone, and I have no reason to believe he's lying.

But I'm kind of tiring of this debate. The way I look at it is either he's going to be ready or he's not. Aint nothing I can do about it. But he looks like he's ready to go to me.

 

[waldoputty]

Fair enough. I'm not one way or the other. I think my original comment is he looks like he's healing and the nerve is firing to me. And I believe him when he says the nerve is firing. He should know better than anyone, and I have no reason to believe he's lying.

But I'm kind of tiring of this debate. The way I look at it is either he's going to be ready or he's not. Aint nothing I can do about it. But he looks like he's ready to go to me.

Yes I know what you mean.
This whole thing has felt anticlimatic because it has been going on for so long.

It is like watching water boil.
Or better yet, on some tv show when people are waiting for the male lead (Jaylon) and female lead (Jerry) to make out ('fire') for a year...
Let's just hope it is worth it and he becomes the generational player that his full 'potential'.

I would say given the videos and progress, it would be enjoyable to think what other teams are feeling.
Offense just needs a WR2 and RT.
If Jaylon becomes a probowler or better, the LB corps are set and becomes a strength.
The D would just need 1 DL that requires double team, and the other pieces can easily be filled in.
Much easier to buy/draft CBs and S than the player that Jaylon could be.

BTW, the contracts for 2018 are currently $60M below the cap with no restructuring.
This year, the contracts can be easily restructured to get $30M, and up to $50M if they tried harder.
So the team can easily return the FAs they want to keep and get the FAs they need assuming those are available.

 

[negativecreep]

He's actually doing some hard lateral drills here and moving very well.

Ive blown off all the previous stuff, but this one has some good stuff.

I'm impressed. My jaw dropped when we picked him in the second, but he does look good. I'm still not ready to get too excited until he's on the field, but I'm hopeful.

 

[WeaponX]

I've read this a couple times... are you referencing the beginning of this video where he is jumping? There are no trampolines, he is jumping off of the ground over the obstacles.

Or maybe I am blind

You're not the only one man, I was beginning to think I was going crazy...

 

[dogunwo]

You'll have to walk me through the logic of this.

Hating= he is still wearing the brace, so that means he will definitely never be any good, or good enough to justify his draft status.

Reasonable= he is still wearing the brace, so we need more information before jumping to any conclusions either way

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Fuzzy, great job getting those pics


Just so it is absolutely crystal clear, Fuzzy just in a frame-by-frame fashion showed EVERYONE that Jaylon is able to move his feet up and down. Someone with total foot drop CANNOT do that.

Mayo Clinic's definition of foot drop: Foot drop, sometimes called drop foot, is a general term for difficulty lifting the front part of the foot. If you have foot drop, you may drag the front of your foot on the ground when you walk.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/foot-drop/basics/definition/con-20032918

Smh...

By now, everyone on this board has a crystal clear idea of what drop foot is. Repeating what it is doesn't advance the conversation nor is it relevant to the discussion.

Fuzzy and you are completely wrong about the function of an AFO and flexion it provides. He won't admit to it because he's an intellectual coward, however, people can educate themselves and better understand what Jaylon will be capable of with an AFO.

This video demonstrates the built-in flexibility of the device and at the :57 mark he's flexing the AFO in the same manner you would if you were pushing your forefoot down as you do when you walk/run.