Garrett not a good coach?

[Idgit]

Amazing how he comes fleecing to Garretts aid at every turn. In his mind Garrett is clearly one of the great head coaching minds in all of football. Yet the media, players, and most fans think Garrett is below par.

The topic of the thread is whether or not Garrett is a good coach. Nothing amazing about me posting in it, because we all know I happen to think he's a good coach.

I don't think Garrett is one of the great head coaching minds in all of football and have never said that, so that's not clear at all from context. That's just you reading into more things that aren't there. I do think Garrett is a good fit for this organization and one of the best options practically available to us. And I do think the consistency and lack of drama he provides is really good for a Jerry Jones-owned franchise.

And, for the record, Jason Garrett is the reigning AP NFL Coach of the Year. The fact that you think that translates to the media thinking he is 'below par' is, frankly, staggeringly poorly thought out.

It's also the case that most players who have gone on record have been very supportive of Garrett. Cue the 'what are they supposed to say' take, but it doesn't change the fact that you can't then draw the exact opposite conclusion.

I have no idea what most fans think. But since half of all people are of below average intelligence, and there's not a correlation between intelligence and having opinions on the internet, I don't really care what most fans think. I care what smart fans think and what people who know what's really going on think. Those people generally think Jason Garrett's doing a pretty good job as coach and that the arrow in Dallas is heading in the right direction.

 

[visionary]

For those of you who can't wait to find out, the NFL player is Eric Davis. He's entitled to his opinion. Looking at an NFL season like 'Tony Romo gets you 8 games,' 'Dak gets your 7 or 8 games' is pretty amateurish. That's not how things work.

And I know a lot of people believe a HC is going to scheme or play call you to a couple extra wins a season, but I don't think that's accurate, either (though there are some exceptions where coaches do do that now and then). The best HCs assemble and develop talent and depth. The game is about finding mismatches. Sometimes you can do that with a play call. Sometimes you do it with a play design (like the pick plays NE was doing so much of, or Dez' pass to Witten this last season). Mostly you do it by adding players and putting them in the right position to succeed. We've done a good job of that here in recent years.

Most would agree that Romo was a top 5-7 QB for all of Garret's tenure

Having one if the top 5-7 QBs pretty much guarantees a post season spot

When Garrett became HC Romo had already been playing in his system for years so no learning a new system

Garrett/Romo
Mccarthy/Rodgers
Bellichick/Brady
HC/Peyton
Tomlin/Big Ben
Carroll/Wilson

Compare their post season records

# of post seasons made
# post season wins
# conference championship games made and won
# SBs made and won

This analysis should tell anyone with common sense and football sense that Garrett (a HC in training) is what held us back

Garrett has been one of the wurst HCs of the last 6 years

 

[Idgit]

Most would agree that Romo was a top 5-7 QB for all of Garret's tenure

Having one if the top 5-7 QBs pretty much guarantees a post season spot

When Garrett became HC Romo had already been playing in his system for years so no learning a new system

Garrett/Romo
Mccarthy/Rodgers
Bellichick/Brady
HC/Peyton
Tomlin/Big Ben
Carroll/Wilson

Compare their post season records

# of post seasons made
# post season wins
# conference championship games made and won
# SBs made and won

This analysis should tell anyone with common sense and football sense that Garrett (a HC in training) is what held us back

Garrett has been one of the wurst HCs of the last 6 years

What did your careful analysis of the Cowboys' defense during that period tell you? Did it "pretty much guarantee" something too?

Use either common sense or football sense to explain to us whatever you come up with.

 

[Doomsday101]

Most would agree that Romo was a top 5-7 QB for all of Garret's tenure

Having one if the top 5-7 QBs pretty much guarantees a post season spot

When Garrett became HC Romo had already been playing in his system for years so no learning a new system

Garrett/Romo
Mccarthy/Rodgers
Bellichick/Brady
HC/Peyton
Tomlin/Big Ben
Carroll/Wilson

Compare their post season records

# of post seasons made
# post season wins
# conference championship games made and won
# SBs made and won

This analysis should tell anyone with common sense and football sense that Garrett (a HC in training) is what held us back

Garrett has been one of the wurst HCs of the last 6 years

anyone with any common sense knows football is offense and defense. This seems to continue to elude people it is not just about offense the game is played on the defensive side as well and that defense becomes even more important when facing the top teams in post season. I would agree offense, defense and special teams all fall under the HC so it is not an excuse only the observation that Dallas has yet to put a complete team out there to truly compete for a championship.

 

[visionary]

What did your careful analysis of the Cowboys' defense during that period tell you? Did it "pretty much guarantee" something too?

Use either common sense or football sense to explain to us whatever you come up with.

I expect nothing less than your usual excuses from you

 

[Idgit]

I expect nothing less than your usual excuses from you

Give it a rest. If you can't look at that 2012 defense and realize it was a problem, where do you get off talking to other posters about football sense?

You might remember, that was the unit that allowed the third most yards in league history.

 

[Idgit]

anyone with any common sense knows football is offense and defense. This seems to continue to elude people it is not just about offense the game is played on the defensive side as well and that defense becomes even more important when facing the top teams in post season. I would agree offense, defense and special teams all fall under the HC so it is not an excuse only the observation that Dallas has yet to put a complete team out there to truly compete for a championship.

The reason it's not an excuse is because the team's have gotten progressively better under Garrett as the personnel has improved.

If you go 8-8 with 6-10 talent, that's an accomplishment. If you build 6-10 talent into 13-3 talent, that is, too. Yes, it's taken longer than anybody had hoped, but the results are there. Fans need to be more realistic about how good those teams were from 2010-2013. Considering how much overlap there is between fans who bash Garrett still and fans like @visionary who did nothing but mock the team's personnel at the time, you'd think some of them would clue in eventually. But agendas are pretty powerful.

 

[Doomsday101]

The reason it's not an excuse is because the team's have gotten progressively better under Garrett as the personnel has improved.

If you go 8-8 with 6-10 talent, that's an accomplishment. If you build 6-10 talent into 13-3 talent, that is, too. Yes, it's taken longer than anybody had hoped, but the results are there. Fans need to be more realistic about how good those teams were from 2010-2013. Considering how much overlap there is between fans who bash Garrett still and fans like @visionary who did nothing but mock the team's personnel at the time, you'd think some of them would clue in eventually. But agendas are pretty powerful.

I just know for Dallas to achieve the goal of a championship we need to be good on both sides of the ball. There are no cake walks in post season, you face teams who are very capable of putting the ball in the endzone and a teams weakness always shows up in post season. For Dallas defense has been a killer, I think recent defense have shown a lot of fight in them but just can't come up with big stops when you need it the most. If people want to blame HC, GM or DC fine they are all part of the puzzle but players own part of that as well.

I tend not to look for 1 scape goat thinking if you replace him all is better, that is seldom the case. You win and lose as a team

 

[visionary]

I just know for Dallas to achieve the goal of a championship we need to be good on both sides of the ball. There are no cake walks in post season, you face teams who are very capable of putting the ball in the endzone and a teams weakness always shows up in post season. For Dallas defense has been a killer, I think recent defense have shown a lot of fight in them but just can't come up with big stops when you need it the most. If people want to blame HC, GM or DC fine they are all part of the puzzle but players own part of that as well.

I tend not to look for 1 scape goat thinking if you replace him all is better, that is seldom the case. You win and lose as a team

Look at the list in my post

All of those QB/HC had better defences in all the years they made the post season and had success?

There are HCs who were hired at the same time or after Garrett that had worse QBs and have already had more post season success than Garrett

The 2 responsible people are jerry and Garrett

Posters like @Idgit have a long history of being jerry and Garrett apologists and speaking out of both sides of the mouth to excuse every ineptitude by both jerry and Garrett

Look at the actual evidence

 

[Doomsday101]

Look at the list in my post

All of those QB/HC had better defences in all the years they made the post season and had success?

There are HCs who were hired at the same time or after Garrett that had worse QBs and have already had more post season success than Garrett

The 2 responsible people are jerry and Garrett

Posters like @Idgit have a long history of being jerry and Garrett apologists and speaking out of both sides of the mouth to excuse every ineptitude by both jerry and Garrett

Look at the actual evidence

The QB\HC you listed yes all had much better defense. Dallas has shown they can play good offense but come post season you need defense. I'm not excusing anyone but acting as if it is all about offense? BS come post season weak defense will kill you. Even the 90's Cowboys the defense was often overlooked by many but it was that defense that make big impacts in each of the SB wins.

I don't put Jason in the top tier at this point with HC but I do know taking a team with so many question marks and a rookie QB and accomplishing all they did last season was no easy task and a poor HC would not have put together a season as the Cowboys had.

I don't expect to change peoples minds on Garrett, that is his job to change peoples minds and can only accomplish that by winning.
Not many sang the praise of Belichick in his 1st 6 season as a HC, being fired and having to wait 5 years before he got his next chance. Now you will find few who do not think he is one of the top HC in the NFL. It is all about winning and as I said that falls to Jason to silence the critics not me

 

[Idgit]

I just know for Dallas to achieve the goal of a championship we need to be good on both sides of the ball. There are no cake walks in post season, you face teams who are very capable of putting the ball in the endzone and a teams weakness always shows up in post season. For Dallas defense has been a killer, I think recent defense have shown a lot of fight in them but just can't come up with big stops when you need it the most. If people want to blame HC, GM or DC fine they are all part of the puzzle but players own part of that as well.

I tend not to look for 1 scape goat thinking if you replace him all is better, that is seldom the case. You win and lose as a team

The defensive talent has been bad for years. It's slightly better now, and we have a decent coordinator, but we still lack talent.

I hate that we're talking scape goats and blame here. It's unnecessary. This was a bad team in 2010. 1-7 bad. It had a very good QB, but needed an OL and defensive overhaul. It had little available salary cap space, which was a problem that was magnified by the new CBA and the Austin penalty. A brand new HC who didn't come with a staff assembled. The team went .500 for a period despite all that, retooled the OL, improved the offense, and has very gradually turned the worst defense in the league into a mediocre top-15 unit that still lacks talent in key positions. In the process, the team went from 8-8 performance to ~12-4 performances. Progress has not been up-and-down, it's been consistent. We had a setback in 2015, but everybody with a lick of sense knows why that was. The staff is highly regarded. The HC wins NFL COTY, and we have posters like @visionary trying to pretend that I'm the one making excuses.

There's nothing to excuse. This team was 13-3 last year, and has the cap and personnel to improve. Yes, the coach is good. Yes, the staff is good and the team is capable of contending. No, not every team that's good wins a championship. Understanding that doesn't even rise to the level of common sense. It's ought to be completely obvious from the jump.

 

[Doomsday101]

The defensive talent has been bad for years. It's slightly better now, and we have a decent coordinator, but we still lack talent.

I hate that we're talking scape goats and blame here. It's unnecessary. This was a bad team in 2010. 1-7 bad. It had a very good QB, but needed an OL and defensive overhaul. It had little available salary cap space, which was a problem that was magnified by the new CBA and the Austin penalty. A brand new HC who didn't come with a staff assembled. The team went .500 for a period despite all that, retooled the OL, improved the offense, and has very gradually turned the worst defense in the league into a mediocre top-15 unit that still lacks talent in key positions. In the process, the team went from 8-8 performance to ~12-4 performances. Progress has not been up-and-down, it's been consistent. We had a setback in 2015, but everybody with a lick of sense knows why that was. The staff is highly regarded. The HC wins NFL COTY, and we have posters like @visionary trying to pretend that I'm the one making excuses.

There's nothing to excuse. This team was 13-3 last year, and has the cap and personnel to improve. Yes, the coach is good. Yes, the staff is good and the team is capable of contending. No, not every team that's good wins a championship. Understanding that doesn't even rise to the level of common sense. It's ought to be completely obvious from the jump.

I agree. I also know that in the end it comes down to winning championships and that falls to the HC. This team has had to make major overhauls since Garrett took over and unfortunately things are not gone as quickly as I or others would like but when I look at what they are trying to do as they continue to build this franchise I like what they are doing.

Cowboy fans are desperate for a championship I get that and I want the same. I'm not looking for a quick fix I want to see this team build and maintain a top team for a period of time.

I think this is a very important season coming up for the Cowboys, I think they must show they are a top contender and not a 1 year wonder then back to the bottom.
I'm not much into the SB or bust mindset I want a team who year in and year out is in the thick of the race with the chance to make it to the SB and win SB's.

 

[Idgit]

Look at the list in my post

All of those QB/HC had better defences in all the years they made the post season and had success?

There are HCs who were hired at the same time or after Garrett that had worse QBs and have already had more post season success than Garrett

The 2 responsible people are jerry and Garrett

Posters like @Idgit have a long history of being jerry and Garrett apologists and speaking out of both sides of the mouth to excuse every ineptitude by both jerry and Garrett

Look at the actual evidence

First of all, nobody ever suggested Garrett/Romo is the best combination of HC/QB in the league, that was your assumption. Second of all, it's not up to me to do your research for you. If you think you have examples of comparable QBs to Tony Romo getting consistently into the postseason and advancing with worse defenses, I'm happy to take a look at them. I'll be happy to acknowledge there are instances of better coaching out there in the league in recent history.

But you won't do that. You'll disappear like you always do when confronted because that's what you do after each drive-by.

 

[Idgit]

I agree. I also know that in the end it comes down to winning championships and that falls to the HC. This team has had to make major overhauls since Garrett took over and unfortunately things are not gone as quickly as I or others would like but when I look at what they are trying to do as they continue to build this franchise I like what they are doing.

Cowboy fans are desperate for a championship I get that and I want the same. I'm not looking for a quick fix I want to see this team build and maintain a top team for a period of time.

I think this is a very important season coming up for the Cowboys, I think they must show they are a top contender and not a 1 year wonder then back to the bottom.
I'm not much into the SB or bust mindset I want a team who year in and year out is in the thick of the race with the chance to make it to the SB and win SB's.

I agree that it's a big season upcoming. It might well be that Garrett ends up being a coach like Schottenheimer who is capable of getting into the postseason, but never wins anything. If that happens, he'll get fired fairly quickly, and rightfully so. That's how the league works.

And yeah, it took longer than it should have to retool. There was aa holding pattern there for three seasons that was frustrating. Longer than I wanted, and longer than I expected. So it goes. It doesn't change the fact that the team did consistently improve during that time. The question in the thread, though, was 'is Garrett a good coach.' Not "do we have the best coach in the league."

 

[Doomsday101]

First of all, nobody ever suggested Garrett/Romo is the best combination of HC/QB in the league, that was your assumption. Second of all, it's not up to me to do your research for you. If you think you have examples of comparable QBs to Tony Romo getting consistently into the postseason and advancing with worse defenses, I'm happy to take a look at them. I'll be happy to acknowledge there are instances of better coaching out there in the league in recent history.

But you won't do that. You'll disappear like you always do when confronted because that's what you do after each drive-by.

Even Carroll gets some what of a pass. Who in their right mind throws the ball down on the goal line getting picked off in the last min of a game when you have the best running attack that season yet Carroll and the seahawks did that vs the Pats in the SB a game that the seahawks should have won had it not been for a stupid call by Carroll and a poor throw by Wilson

 

[Idgit]

Even Carroll gets some what of a pass. Who in their right mind throws the ball down on the goal line getting picked off in the last min of a game when you have the best running attack that season yet Carroll and the seahawks did that vs the Pats in the SB a game that the seahawks should have won had it not been for a stupid call by Carroll and a poor throw by Wilson

Good point. I said at the time that was probably the worst call in league history, because it specifically lost a Superbowl. He's still a very good coach, though.

It's a competitive league. Lots of good coaches, lots of good QBs. You just have to play the odds and try to build a deep roster and stay in position to cash in when things break right.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I agree. I also know that in the end it comes down to winning championships and that falls to the HC. This team has had to make major overhauls since Garrett took over and unfortunately things are not gone as quickly as I or others would like but when I look at what they are trying to do as they continue to build this franchise I like what they are doing.

Cowboy fans are desperate for a championship I get that and I want the same. I'm not looking for a quick fix I want to see this team build and maintain a top team for a period of time.

I think this is a very important season coming up for the Cowboys, I think they must show they are a top contender and not a 1 year wonder then back to the bottom.
I'm not much into the SB or bust mindset I want a team who year in and year out is in the thick of the race with the chance to make it to the SB and win SB's.

The fact of the matter is that if this team didnt strike gold with Prescott it could be real quickly back to 8-8 with Romo either being injured, retired, or on his last leg. Prescott is the real reason this team is contending and has a bright future going forward. We can thank McClay and the Joneses for that.

 

[Trouty]

The last three seasons have sold me on Coach Garrett. I despised him prior to 2014. All he has done since is develop players, develop a stronger relationship with excellent coordinators, hire a great DB coach, and begin to mold our next franchise QB.

I'm eating some fine crow about this man. I have full faith in him going forward.

And I absolutely adore the way he stonewalls the media. If it weren't for JJ, the media would get very little out of Frisco.

 

[CATCH17]

The thing is.. Garrett is going nowhere. He is the safest coach maybe in all of sports right now.

I just can't imagine how many seasons we would have to just be completely abysmal in until Jerry and Stephen got rid of him.


So even though I would like to have a coach that makes more of a difference on Sunday's it's just not worth having to lose like we would have to lose for Jerry to actually get rid of the guy.



We just have to hope that his basic / fundamental approach is enough to win the Superbowl when all the other teams are throwing the kitchen sink at us in the playoffs.

 

[Idgit]

The thing is.. Garrett is going nowhere. He is the safest coach maybe in all of sports right now.

I just can't imagine how many seasons we would have to just be completely abysmal in until Jerry and Stephen got rid of him.

So even though I would like to have a coach that makes more of a difference on Sunday's it's just not worth having to lose like we would have to lose for Jerry to actually get rid of the guy.

I obviously like Garrett more than you do overall, but you're exactly right about the position he's in with the organization right now and what would happen if we were to let him go. For me, even the guys in the league who are obvious upgrades to Garrett overall, many of them I can't imagine working well with Jerry and I pretty much write them off.