If Bosa, Elliot and Ramsey are all there

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Wait... if we are judging a CB by his INTs and his INTs alone, I think we have to do that for both players don't we? Sacks are the only stat that now matters for DEs.

So DE plays ~600 plays in a college season and only at most 2 dozen count? Prima facia that is asinine.

Would you rather the guy with 70 pressures and 5 sacks or 35 pressures and 10 sacks?

Bosa was also blocked on over 90% of those pressures. Watching him play it was obvious how much effort OCs put into stopping him.

 

[BigStar]

In what ways is he a clone of Ellis?

Off the top of my head UNC didn't move Ellis around. He never had the hand skills. He never had the plethora of pass rush moves that he could seamlessly flow from one to the other with. I don't recall Ellis physically mauling OT in college either.

No I think you just compare how Greg Ellis made you feel disappointed and expect the same feeling from Bosa.

Maybe a mix of both to be fair. I don't see the seamless pass rush moves but do see the strength he could cause to disrupt; his 40 time was about Chris Long's range so his ceiling isn't great (it seems). But @ 4 and the erb stuff while already having Gregory does make me shy of him. I wish I could find out after November if we should go with Bosa if you get my drift

 

[endersdragon]

So DE plays ~600 plays in a college season and only at most 2 dozen count? Prima facia that is asinine.

Would you rather the guy with 70 pressures and 5 sacks or 35 pressures and 10 sacks?

Bosa was also blocked on over 90% of those pressures. Watching him play it was obvious how much effort OCs put into stopping him.

Hey I am not the one who said that we can only judge a player based on one stat... but if we can only judge CBs on their INT total we can only judge DEs on their sack total. I agree with you, we should look at the whole player... no matter who the player is.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Hey I am not the one who said that we can only judge a player based on one stat... but if we can only judge CBs on their INT total we can only judge DEs on their sack total. I agree with you, we should look at the whole player... no matter who the player is.

I never said judge by INT scores. That is the same reductio ad absurdum applied to Ramsey. I prefer Ramsey over Bosa FWIW.

 

[endersdragon]

I never said judge by INT scores. That is the same reductio ad absurdum applied to Ramsey. I prefer Ramsey over Bosa FWIW.

Okay then, pay attention to the surroundings of my post next time lol... or at least argue just as much to the people who say "3 INTs 3 INTs 3 INTs!"

 

[the_h0wey]

who gets picked? Looking more likely with QBs going 1 and 2, and good possibility of Tunsil at 3. If we get an offer to move down a few picks that would ideal. But if a trade isn't on the table, who gets picked.

I say Bosa....but I'd prefer the other two.

If they all are there we draft Ramsey.

 

[ghst187]

Lately the biggest problem with a lot of the CBs we have picked is that they can't ****ing tackle. Look at Mo. Also Revis Island never saw all that many picks (I don't think he was ever at the top of the league in INTs), are you saying he wasn't elite. Lastly, we can work on a guys hands more than we can work on a guys athleticism, give me the athlete with one workable problem any day.

Revis isn't considered elite because of his tackling.

Obviously Ramsey is a great athlete and good DB. The problem with him is that we just drafted a slightly lesser version of a ridic athlete that is a S/CB (in that order).
We can pretty safely say Ramsey will be an outstanding S, but we have no idea if he can play CB well. And honestly, I still have to bring up the INT factor. I would expect a top 5 draft pick at S to have more than 3 career INTs. IMO, if we want a great, shutdown CB that we know can play CB, why not trade down for Hargreaves?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Okay then, pay attention to the surroundings of my post next time lol... or at least argue just as much to the people who say "3 INTs 3 INTs 3 INTs!"

Who says I don't?

People are at a loss now that QB is not there and Jack's knee is so much cottage cheese.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Revis isn't considered elite because of his tackling.

Obviously Ramsey is a great athlete and good DB. The problem with him is that we just drafted a slightly lesser version of a ridic athlete that is a S/CB (in that order).
We can pretty safely say Ramsey will be an outstanding S, but we have no idea if he can play CB well. And honestly, I still have to bring up the INT factor. I would expect a top 5 draft pick at S to have more than 3 career INTs. IMO, if we want a great, shutdown CB that we know can play CB, why not trade down for Hargreaves?

The S pairing with Jones is the weakest part of the secondary. Ramsey can play every position just like they asked Jones to do last year. I don't know why they would change the program. I would hope we see him and Jones both all over the field.

I think Carr still has value for this team in putting out a competent defense. I expect we will draft two corners before we jettison him.

Hargreaves is a good corner but his size worries me. He is not nearly as dynamic and I want to see him compete with the Julio Jones and Dez Bryants of the world for jump balls and possession routes. His upside is limited compared to Ramsey.

 

[dcowboysfan76]

I think the bigger question is, "which of the 3 is more prone to be a bust?" From there, we can open a new thread.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Maybe a mix of both to be fair. I don't see the seamless pass rush moves but do see the strength he could cause to disrupt; his 40 time was about Chris Long's range so his ceiling isn't great (it seems). But @ 4 and the erb stuff while already having Gregory does make me shy of him. I wish I could find out after November if we should go with Bosa if you get my drift

Bosa sheds blocks like nobody else in this draft. Only one who is close is that NT from Alabama. If the pocket breaks down and blockers lose leverage it's over because Bosa sheds and makes the play. Same with cut backs from runners.

He is also one of the best finishers. He can take down big QB like Roethlisberger and Newton if he gets his mitts on them. I love the idea of him pummeling Eli Manning. Between the garbage sacks in how he cleans things up and him winning some battles in his own right I think people are grossly underestimating his sack potential.

40 time is meaningless for DL except downfield pursuit. Agility, explosion, and strength are the name of the game inline. His 3 cone, BJ, shuttle, and BP, if you take his pro-day 28, are all 90th percentile. All are much better than Long. They compare with Mack and Watt.

 

[CrownCowboy]

Jalen Ramsey picked off three, count em, three balls in three years in college.

I'm sure that whoever Ramsey plays for that he'd probably be the best player in their secondary for a good eight years plus, which is great. But what this team needs is an instant impact player that will be a game changer.

If I draft a corner or a saftey at the 4 spot I want someone who is a lockdown defender that picks the football off. If a player can't create turnovers in college, he ain't gonna learn once he arrives in the NFL.

I know Elliot has been mentioned and analyzed a million times on this forum, but with his dynamic skillset behind this offensive line, he's the most impactful player we can get and is indeed a gamechanger.

With that being said, I agree with most here. We are not going to draft him and will indeed probably go with Ramsey. It would be hard to argue with the pick. Ramsey is a very good football player. But the bottomline is the man is not as big of a playmaker as people think in my opinion.

 

[RJ_MacReady]

Ramsey.

 

[Bullflop]

Ramsey.

 

[BigStar]

Bosa sheds blocks like nobody else in this draft. Only one who is close is that NT from Alabama. If the pocket breaks down and blockers lose leverage it's over because Bosa sheds and makes the play. Same with cut backs from runners.

He is also one of the best finishers. He can take down big QB like Roethlisberger and Newton if he gets his mitts on them. I love the idea of him pummeling Eli Manning. Between the garbage sacks in how he cleans things up and him winning some battles in his own right I think people are grossly underestimating his sack potential.

40 time is meaningless for DL except downfield pursuit. Agility, explosion, and strength are the name of the game inline. His 3 cone, BJ, shuttle, and BP, if you take his pro-day 28, are all 90th percentile. All are much better than Long. They compare with Mack and Watt.

You make a good case for his can't (seems you've seen a helluva lot more on Bosa than I have) and won't argue that. I'll acknowledge 40 times aren't all that pivotal for DL but more REs (esp someone with Bosa's sounding game). I really just want to know after November whether it would be wise to "chance it" bc of his off the field stuff @ that high (4). All the progress could be for nothing, etc. and back to stone ages (policy wise) if it goes the wrong way, etc.

 

[casmith07]

Draft the best impact player at the impact position... Elliot

...which is Ramsey.

 

[cowboys2233]

...which is Ramsey.

Why? Is he really that much better than a guy like Hargreaves? Sure, he's got good straight line speed but I'm not sure what this love affair with Ramsey is all about.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why? Is he really that much better than a guy like Hargreaves? Sure, he's got good straight line speed but I'm not sure what this love affair with Ramsey is all about.

Zeke isn't that much better than Dixon and Henry. Hargreaves is not nearly as dynamic.

 

[Hardline]

The best defensive player the Cowboys could draft just so happens to play offense

Ezekiel Elliott.

 

[DCowboyz]

I'd honestly go Zeke but the Cowboys will draft Ramsey. Isn't he #1 in our draft board?