I'm sick of all the whining about running up scores

[khiladi]

The real issue is not running up the score, but the one-sided reff'ing the Patriots are getting away with, including Mr. Push Off Randy Moss and the always holding OL and knee-swiping of the Patriots... Things like running up the score divert away from the real advantage the Pats get...

 

[khiladi]

To add, Bill Parcells was asked last week on his segment with Mike Ditka on ESPN what he thought about the Patriots running up the score and he said he had no problem with it. To buttress his point further, he referenced the Houston/Tennessee Game of that same week. Down 32-7 entering the 4th Quarter, the Texans would score 29 points in the 4th Quarter in an eventual loss in OT.
- Mike G.

Of course Jesus also walked on water... things happen, but they don't happen often... While Parcells can reference one game out of a thousand where a team went on a comeback tear, I can mention the 999 games it didn't...

 

[Chocolate Lab]

CL, you're a great poster, and you should grasp this distinction. It's ok for coaches to have different tolerance levels for the different risks involved. Parcells concerned himself with injury risks. He also liked to play percentages--especially when he had the lead. That's perfectly legitimate.

BB has a different team and a different philosophy. He's apparently more tolerant of injury risk. He may really believe that no lead is safe. He might also believe that what he establishes attitudinally by not letting up builds a stronger team in the long run. All of these are legitmate reasons to not stop trying to score that have nothing to do with class or respect for the other team.

First, thanks. But that distinction you mention, the one between the way Parcells and Belichick handle things, isn't about winning or preparing the team. Belichick may it is, but he's lying. He's not seriously worried about losing a lead when he's up by 40 in the fourth quarter. If and when he says so, that's just lip service. No, this goes back to his anger about being busted over Spygate, or something else other than preparing his team.

A lot of people in these threads are confusing two issues that have nothing to do with each other. You can win with class, and you can lose with class. You can also win without class and lose without class. Belichick certainly has the right to win without class, but other people also have the right to point out what a jerk he is.

 

[Idgit]

First, thanks. But that distinction you mention, the one between the way Parcells and Belichick handle things, isn't about winning or preparing the team. Belichick may it is, but he's lying. He's not seriously worried about losing a lead when he's up by 40 in the fourth quarter. If and when he says so, that's just lip service. No, this goes back to his anger about being busted over Spygate, or something else other than preparing his team.

A lot of people in these threads are confusing two issues that have nothing to do with each other. You can win with class, and you can lose with class. You can also win without class and lose without class. Belichick certainly has the right to win without class, but other people also have the right to point out what a jerk he is.

Let's stipulate for the sake of argument that BB is doing this b/c he knows what the blowback will be in the media and he wants to create and us-v.-them mentality in the locker room b/c he thinks that's what he's going to need to get his team past a very good Colts team in the AFC. Is it classless, then, if it's a calculated decision to make his team better? Or is it good coaching? Or both? If it's still classless, isn't it also his obligation to his team to do it anyway?

 

[Skin]

First, thanks. But that distinction you mention, the one between the way Parcells and Belichick handle things, isn't about winning or preparing the team. Belichick may it is, but he's lying. He's not seriously worried about losing a lead when he's up by 40 in the fourth quarter. If and when he says so, that's just lip service. No, this goes back to his anger about being busted over Spygate, or something else other than preparing his team.

A lot of people in these threads are confusing two issues that have nothing to do with each other. You can win with class, and you can lose with class. You can also win without class and lose without class. Belichick certainly has the right to win without class, but other people also have the right to point out what a jerk he is.

You're 100 percent correct. BB and his team are trying to deliver a message to the league. There is no way he is afraid of losing a lead or game when they are up by substantial margins. Their mission is to take no prisoners and destroy the opposition. If that's how they want to play, bully for them. My only hope is that it is returned in kind if a team gets the chance.

 

[WV Cowboy]

I really don't care one way or the other what BB does.

I have coached for 16 seasons, and have been on both ends of blowouts.

If you have ever coached, you would realize that it is patronizing and shows the losing team NO respect at all for the winning team to give up, or let up.

I wouldn't keep Brady & Moss in as long as BB did, and I wouldn't have been passing with as big a lead as they had, but it is not BB job to keep the score close.

It may look bad for BB to do what he did, but to me it looks WAAAYYYY worse to whine about it.

The only people that should feel bad about it is the Patriot Front Office and the Patriots fans. If they don't feel bad about it then nobody should.

For fans of other teams to complain about it looks like they are whining, and are good losers.

p.s. For all of the whiners, how upset were you when the Cowboys blew out the Bills 52-17 ??

Be honest!

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Maybe so, but I can't accept that assumption. He already has an us-against-the-world mentality ingrained into that team. They take collective offense at the most innocuous things as it is. We've seen several examples this year and in years past of them manufacturing slights against them when everyone else on Earth knows there isn't one there. T.O.'s popcorn comment is just one of many.

If this is a super-duper new coaching theory Belichick has discovered, I wonder why no one else has come up with it before now? Maybe we should be discussing why Parcells and many other coaches haven't run up the score whenever possible... Has everyone just been being stupid all these decades?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I figured out Belicheat's real motive in all this, he's using his team as leverage, leverage to gain another 1st round pick, before the game he'll send an opposing coach a memo stating that he'll take it easy on him if his team will trade them their 1st in this year's draft, basically he's holding the league hostage until someone gives in to his wishes

hey, I'm a Cowboy fan, I enjoy conspiracy theories

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Maybe so, but I can't accept that assumption. He already has an us-against-the-world mentality ingrained into that team. They take collective offense at the most innocuous things as it is. We've seen several examples this year and in years past of them manufacturing slights against them when everyone else on Earth knows there isn't one there. T.O.'s popcorn comment is just one of many.

If this is a super-duper new coaching theory Belichick has discovered, I wonder why no one else has come up with it before now? Maybe we should be discussing why Parcells and many other coaches haven't run up the score whenever possible... Has everyone just been being stupid all these decades?

As should every team.

Some coaches do, some choose not to.

If the Cowboys were able to do it, would you be complaining?

 

[InmanRoshi]

Belichick's motivation is to not be the 15-1 1998 Vikings. The dominating team that gets it into their heads that they're so much better than everyone else that they can just turn it on and off whenever they want, and it ends up biting them in the rear in the playoffs when facing an opponent that manages to keep it close until the end. So he makes them play every practice, every snap and every game like it's all on the line. If Belichick's only goal was to score as many points as possible to embarass the opponent, he could have hung 80 on the Commanders quite easily. The Patriots were not airing it down the field. Look at the numbers. They last scored with 8:30 left in the 4th quarter. Their leading recievers were their slot WR who just catches short and intermediate routes and their 3rd down back. Kev Faulk had more completions than Moss and Stallworth combined. They were just slowly and methodically driving the ball down the field with runs and little dink and dunks, and the Commanders couldn't do anything to stop it. Friggin Heath Evans and Kyle Eckels had 8 carries.

Really, what the Patriots are doing is unprecedented. There have been dominant teams before in the NFL that pull away late in games after the defense has worn down, but I can't think of many teams that put away teams mid way into the 3rd quarter every single week. Yeah, other teams have a blow out every now and again, but not every single week. Is Belichick supposed to let his team get acclimated to only playing 3/4 a game for two entire months? What happens when they face the Colts and it goes 60 minutes? Buster Douglas beat Mike Tyson in his prime because Tyson had never been in a fight that lasted to the 5th round. Belichick's only obligation belongs to doing whatever is best for his players that bust their butts for him and his employer who writes his checks. Not for making the Commanders feel warm fuzzies about themselves because they only got beat 38-3 instead of 52-7, and again I happen to think that it's more insulting and humiliating to be so condescendingly patronized when the other team stops fighting by the 4th quarter. That tells me they don't even think of you as a peer. They're just toying with you like ike the nerdy littler brother getting wedgies and purple nurples.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

As should every team.

Some coaches do, some choose not to.

If the Cowboys were able to do it, would you be complaining?

Yep. Sure would be.

 

[superpunk]

but I can't think of many teams that put away teams mid way into the 3rd quarter every single week.

You must have missed their game against Dallas.

But yeah, the rest of their games have been outrageous. I don't know that they even beat Indy this weekend, because I think Indy is a better squad top to bottom - but if they do to Indy what they've done to everyone else, my jaw will drop and they can cancel the rest of the season.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I can't tell you how pissed off I was when the Rangers ran the score up to 30-3 on the Orioles! :yousuck: :angryno::laugh2:

 

[Established1971]

It's stupid. I'm sick of people whining about the Patriots scoring with their backups or running the ball on 4th and 1 with a big lead.

Get real. When did the NFL become a freakin' Sunday School Picnic or a Pansy League where you give a damn about the other team's feelings?

This is professional athletics! When the Red Sox are up by 10 runs in the final inning, does anyone expect the batter to simply stand there and take all the pitches? Why are we okay with batters still trying to hit the ball or pitchers still trying to strike someone out in a blowout in baseball? Why are we okay with NBA teams still playing defense and still dunking the basketball when the game is a blowout? Yet in the NFL these days we think the team with the lead should just start taking a freakin' knee.

Personally, I agree with the fans in England who were booing the G-men today for kneeling down the last few plays. I'd love to see the victory formation outlawed and teams required to actually run a play every play till the game is over.

NE puts in their backups...should the coach tell his second and third string guys to NOT try to score? Please...these are professional athletes...they are trained to try and score. So it's 4th down...the choice was kick a fg and run up the score or run a play and give the Skins a chance to be men and stop you...or do you think they should have taken a knee and just handed the ball back to the Skins who were still playing their starters and trying to score?

These are professional athletes. It's up to the losing team to freakin' play the game and stop someone. The Commanders never ran up the white flag and quit, putting in scrubbs and running every play to kill the clock and go home, so why should the Patriots do it? Just to let the score be a little closer and save a grown man playing a professional sport feel better about his putrid performance?

Sorry...I don't have a problem with kicking a FG, like Dallas did a few years back with a big lead, in order to let a guy set a record, and I don't have a problem with the winning team handing the ball to a running back with a huge lead on 4th and one instead of kicking a FG or kneeling down so the other team can try to score some points. Maybe I'd have a problem with it if the winning team was up by 52 points and ran play action on 4th and 1 to throw a td pass and laugh it up on the sidelines, but even then I'd get over it quickly because the other professional team is supposed to do a job too.

Maybe Joe Gibbs ran off the field more out of embarrassment for the team he's responsible for and their pathetic effort than because NE hurt his feelings...I hope that's true, because if it was because he got his feelings hurt, then I have even less respect for him. Grow some stones and put together a better game plan or face the music.

I'm an old man, but I really don't get this whole "running up the score" and "classless" crap, no matter who the two teams are. Philly once faked the kneeldown in the final seconds of a game in order to throw a TD pass against us so Buddy Ryan could rub it in Tom Landry's face...a fake kneel down after a real kneel down...now that's a little classless...but the defense still could have made a freakin' play.

Running the ball on 4th and 1 is not unsportsmanlike. This is not little league and we're not talking about 7 year old boys.

Youre wrong Wayne Motley. There are legitmate reasons to complain about what the Pats are doing. It is not "stupid" to make such an observation. We are "real." To not want to see this does not mean we want football to be a picnic or a pansy league. Jesus how many cliches and pseudo-macho sayings can you invoke here Wayne? And while I am on the subject, you know what is "stupid" and what "I am sick of"? The expression "whining." Why do less articulate people such as yourself insist on calling any expressed opinion they dont agree with "whining"? This is the dumbest and most tired message board cliche there is. Why isnt what you are saying here not whining? Whining is something you can only indentify by hearing a person's voice. You can't whine in print. This is not your classiest post Wayne, with all due respect.

 

[dogberry]

How would Buddy Ryan deal with the pats? I guess he would do more than whine.

 

[Doomsday101]

Then these teams need to start running the ball and stop taking timeouts if getting the score ran up on them is a problem. Run the ball and the clock and get off the field but to expect that the Pats stop playing and just let the other team run their offense is not going to happen nor should it. In this past game the Pats did pull Brady, the RB's and Moss with over 8 min left and the Pat backups scored but then why not let the backup run the offense?

 

[Chuck 54]

Well done. It's simple, it's just showing respect. You say, hey! We killed you, and now I shall take the foot off the gas and allow you to give your back ups some playing time, or allow you to show your team some things, but my work is done here. Now we will insert our backups, and try and get them some game time experience.

That's the whole point, Clove....the losers want the winners to put in the scrubs and run the ball into 9 man fronts on every play and punt the ball back or kneel down on 4th and 1, but the losers want that to happen while they continue to play their first unit so they can score and get something done.

I know it's a world of difference between high school and college or professional football, but I coached on a high school team in VA for a head coach who was once coach of the year in Michigan high schools and is in the Michigan High School football hall of fame, and Old Dutch always said he would pull his starters when the team he was beating pulled theirs...he believed it was up to them to run up the white flag and the second he saw them substituting, he substituted and never threw another pass. But he said "i'll be damned if I'm going to put in the scrubs and let the other teams first unit run up and down the field on them...if he doesn't want a butt whippen, then he should give up...then I will."

You don't have to agree with it, but again, this is professional athletics, and I see no reason why one team needs to "respect" another team. When a team gets down inside your 10 and starts kneeling down to give you the ball back rather than score on your defense, to me that's much more embarrassing...put 11 guys on the line and stop the freakin' running play or QB sneak...if the other team passes, then you can complain.

 

[Rackat]

http://i2.***BLOCKED***/albums/y37/Rackat/funnies/cute-kitten.jpg

 

[Chuck 54]

Maybe so, but I can't accept that assumption. He already has an us-against-the-world mentality ingrained into that team. They take collective offense at the most innocuous things as it is. We've seen several examples this year and in years past of them manufacturing slights against them when everyone else on Earth knows there isn't one there. T.O.'s popcorn comment is just one of many.

If this is a super-duper new coaching theory Belichick has discovered, I wonder why no one else has come up with it before now? Maybe we should be discussing why Parcells and many other coaches haven't run up the score whenever possible... Has everyone just been being stupid all these decades?

You won't agree with this, but I don't think Parcells had the nerve to run up the score...it sure as hell wasn't because he was a humanitarian who cared what the players on the other team felt like...heck, he seldom cared what his own players felt about things. Parcells was a paranoid guy who was always afraid of losing because of something he did, imo. And....he seldom had a chance to run up any scores in quite a few years.

 

[WV Cowboy]

And while I am on the subject, you know what is "stupid" and what "I am sick of"? The expression "whining." Why do less articulate people such as yourself insist on calling any expressed opinion they dont agree with "whining"? This is the dumbest and most tired message board cliche there is. Why isnt what you are saying here not whining? Whining is something you can only indentify by hearing a person's voice. You can't whine in print.

When you are crying about the other team trying to score on you when you are in competition against each other, .. that is whining whether it is in person, in print, on a billboard, pulled behind an airplane, or printed on a blimp.

If two teams agree to compete for 60 minutes, then that is what they should do.