Is Garrett getting a pass for lack of discipline?

[Little Jr]

This was covered in the other thread, but 58 of those games are from R. McClain (14), Gregory (30), Brent (10), and Hardy (4, before he ever came to DAL).

Which of those are discipline problems? McClain had substance issues and didn't want to be here. Should not have been on the team, but his presence had nothing to do with the team culture. Gregory has medical/emotional issues and was a known risk when drafted. Brent, we know what happened there and it wasn't a discipline thing.

So, no, we don't have a discipline problem. We have a culture where we give a lot of second chances to troubled players and they end up suspended. But then, we already knew that.

Are they counting Gregory for the 16 this coming year? Is that where you're getting your 30 from? And where are you getting your 14 from McClain from?

 

[EST_1986]

My question is how does this compare to other teams?

My question is can we get a picture showing the team logos with the number of suspension underneath and in order from largest to smallest so this whole topic is easy to understand

 

[BotchedLobotomy]

If someone could post legitimate proof that the Red Clapper Butt Slapper was against drafting/signing these players, that would be great.

 

[Bullflop]

Any lack of discipline involving the C'boys starts with the owner/GM, then the staff, then filters down throughout the team. As such, it's the whole team's responsibility to make their disciplinary problems and correctional solutions workable. Placing the blame on one man reeks of an agenda.

 

[Doomsday101]

There are a ton of players under 25 that are grown men physically, but not me ntally. (imo)

That is true but by law they are adults. HC, parents and all other authority figures only can do so much an adult is expected to function on their own.

 

[Doomsday101]

Please stop making excuses
Don't the other teams and HCs have to wurk under the same rules?
Then why are our players being suspended at twice the rate of the next team?
Falls squarely on the FO the HC and team culture

I guess this us what Garrett means by RKGs

I am not making an excuse they are adults period they pretty much do what they want to do. Acting as if a HC has control over any player away from the field is a joke. Teams and the league can hand down punishment for bad behavior but you will not stop a player or any person of legal age for doing as they choose. I don't make excuses for any player you smoke weed and get busted that is on the player no one else. I sure as hell do not cry and say how unfair it is or how it is the leagues fault it rest squarely on the player himself. Using HC or league as some scape goat is pathetic.

I will say because the Cowboys have drafted players and brought in FA with questionable backgrounds that rest on them for giving an opportunity to a troubled player like a Randy Gregory or McClain to name a couple but no HC or team can control the actions of a player when he is away from the team.

 

[DFWJC]

My question is how does this compare to other teams?

I see that our man Catch hit happy hour early yesterday.
Been there brother.

 

[Doomsday101]

Any lack of discipline involving the C'boys starts with the owner/GM, then the staff, then filters down throughout the team. As such, it's the whole team's responsibility to make their disciplinary problems and correctional solutions workable. Placing the blame on one man reeks of an agenda.

Cowboys could start by not drafting players with problems to begin with. I saw few here upset with drafting Gregory but with that came a good chance he was going to mess up, hell he could not make it to the combines without failing a test. Cowboys draft him he gets popped well Cowboys were at fault for taking him but they nor any other team is going to control the behavior of a player

 

[JoeKing]

This is a BS stat to put on Jason Garrett. Jerry bears the responsibility for Hardy's and Gregory's lost games due to suspension. IIRC, Jason wanted no part of them.

 

[hairic]

How are they getting a hundred games? I don't feel like doing the math but the number doesn't make sense.

Looks incorrect based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suspensions_in_the_National_Football_League

The Greg Hardy and Scandrick reduced suspension should make it less than 100 games.

Substance(s):
4 - Shaquelle Evans
16 - Randy Gregory
16 - Rolando McClain
10 - Randy Gregory
10 - Rolando McClain
4 - DeMarcus Lawrence
4 - Randy Gregory
4 - RJ Dill
4 - Rolando McClain
4 - Jakar Hamilton
4 (2) - Orlando Scandrick

Not substance(s):
10 (4) - Greg Hardy
10 - Josh Brent

Hardy's and Scandrick's reductions adds up to 92 games. McClain's further suspensions were incurred after Dallas was planning on releasing him, so that should be -16 more.

Dallas was clean with substance/PED suspensions from 1999 until 2014. Something might have happened in 2013 to lower their standards. Maybe a historically bad defense.

 

[PhillyCowboysFan]

Yes I give Garrett a pass as he doesn't control all the aspects of the team makeup and or the control over human beings themselves.

Does Belichick get a pass for cheating in which he has TOTAL control over?

 

[Bullflop]

Cowboys could start by not drafting players with problems to begin with. I saw few here upset with drafting Gregory but with that came a good chance he was going to mess up, hell he could not make it to the combines without failing a test. Cowboys draft him he gets popped well Cowboys were at fault for taking him but they nor any other team is going to control the behavior of a player

Agreed -- there's no doubt but what procuring players without red flags like Gregory would go a long way toward resolving some of this team's suspension problems. Of course, there will still be others having these problems that come as far more of a surprise. That's when the entire team (FO, staff and players) must do all in their power to stem so many games being unattended by our players on suspension. Suspensions are killers.

 

[Zordon]

If someone could post legitimate proof that the Red Clapper Butt Slapper was against drafting/signing these players, that would be great.

I'm still waiting for someone to post evidence too brother.

Yes I give Garrett a pass as he doesn't control all the aspects of the team makeup and or the control over human beings themselves.

Does Belichick get a pass for cheating in which he has TOTAL control over?

Of course not. Hence him getting the biggest fine in the history of the NFL - $500K

 

[DFWJC]

Looks incorrect based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suspensions_in_the_National_Football_League

The Greg Hardy and Scandrick reduced suspension should make it less than 100 games.

Substance(s):
4 - Shaquelle Evans
16 - Randy Gregory
16 - Rolando McClain
10 - Randy Gregory
10 - Rolando McClain
4 - DeMarcus Lawrence
4 - Randy Gregory
4 - RJ Dill
4 - Rolando McClain
4 - Jakar Hamilton
4 (2) - Orlando Scandrick

Not substance(s):
10 (4) - Greg Hardy
10 - Josh Brent

Hardy's and Scandrick's reductions adds up to 92 games. McClain's further suspensions were incurred after Dallas was planning on releasing him, so that should be -16 more.

Dallas was clean with substance/PED suspensions from 1999 until 2014. Something might have happened in 2013 to lower their standards. Maybe a historically bad defense.

That is amazing that it's almost completely on the defensive side.
Your theory makes sense.
Atrocious defenses in in 2012 and 2013 (the type where teams would normally only have 2-4 wins with...btw).
Then followed by Dallas taking risks on that side of the ball with players who have had (or are likely to have) suspensions.
Nice work

 

[Doomsday101]

Agreed -- there's no doubt but what procuring players without red flags like Gregory would go a long way toward resolving some of this team's suspension problems. Of course, there will still be others having these problems that come as far more of a surprise. That's when the entire team (FO, staff and players) must do all in their power to stem so many games being unattended by our players on suspension.

My issue is with the players not the HC or the owner (outside of drafting these players) Like it of not they are adults they live a life outside of the organization and just like any other adult you can't keep tabs on them 24/7 they have to be able to go out and function as a responsible adult, if they can't that is on them just as it is on all of us who are of legal age to do so.

Cowboys do provide help to players but it still takes the player to be willing to take the help. Myself I would have cut Gregory after he failed his drug test and stated it at that time yet all I got was some here coming down on me for saying it and instead of blaming Gregory no it was the NFL fault. LOL

Behavior of any person rest on the shoulder of that person it is not Jason or Jerry fault that some players can't live a life without being stupid or a thug, solution cut their sorry ars but then the same people who are busting on Jason would have a cow over cutting a player as they always do

 

[PhillyCowboysFan]

Of course not. Hence him getting the biggest fine in the history of the NFL - $500K

Really? Like that hurt his pockets. To millionaires that's pennies and trust me Kraft probably had a hand in absorbing that hit. Looking at it that way, why not spent $500k on a SB trophy. That sounds cheap to me.

I almost wished it was like the NCAA and had their victories vacated.

 

[Bullflop]

My issue is with the players not the HC or the owner (outside of drafting these players) Like it of not they are adults they live a life outside of the organization and just like any other adult you can't keep tabs on them 24/7 they have to be able to go out and function as a responsible adult, if they can't that is on them just as it is on all of us who are of legal age to do so.

Cowboys do provide help to players but it still takes the player to be willing to take the help. Myself I would have cut Gregory after he failed his drug test and stated it at that time yet all I got was some here coming down on me for saying it and instead of blaming Gregory no it was the NFL fault. LOL

Behavior of any person rest on the shoulder of that person it is not Jason or Jerry fault that some players can't live a life without being stupid or a thug, solution cut their sorry ars but then the same people who are busting on Jason would have a cow over cutting a player as they always do

Very true, although it's up to those in charge to enforce the type of discipline that encourages respect of the rules to abide by what the league demands of its players. Jerry has always been an enabler of those who circumvent the rules by allowing lax standards to prevail. In that respect, I'm extremely wary of that condition being allowed to continue unabated. It takes everyone from the owner/GM on down to everyone below to promote a healthy culture to exist. I'm just hoping some necessary changes to slow this tide of suspensions are forthcoming in the future.

 

[Doomsday101]

Very true, although it's up to those in charge to enforce the type of discipline that encourages respect of the rules to abide by what the league demands of its players. Jerry has always been an enabler of those who circumvent the rules by allowing lax standards to prevail. In that respect, I'm extremely wary of that condition being allowed to continue unabated. It takes everyone from the owner/GM on down to everyone below to promote a healthy culture to exist. I'm just hoping some necessary changes to change this tide of suspensions are forthcoming in the future.

If a kids parents can't do it what makes you think a HC can? I do think the Cowboys should start cutting these guys and avoid drafting players with major question marks. You draft a problem player it should not come as a shock when they screw up. I don't blame any HC for PacMan Jones behavior they knew what they were getting when they took him, you are not going to change a person the person must be willing to change themselves.

 

[Bullflop]

If a kids parents can't do it what makes you think a HC can? I do think the Cowboys should start cutting these guys and avoid drafting players with major question marks. You draft a problem player it should not come as a shock when they screw up. I don't blame any HC for PacMan Jones behavior they knew what they were getting when they took him, you are not going to change a person the person must be willing to change themselves.

What makes you single out the HC? I just finished elaborating upon all of those necessary to affect change. Yes, they should start cutting those who get suspended -- at least those who do it more than once or twice. I also agreed with you that they shouldn't draft those who "screw up." Nevertheless, discipline is a primary prerequisite to enable a healthy culture to exist. Are you saying you're against that? If so, that contention is purely absurd.

 

[Zordon]

These are grown men
They bare blame for their actions off the field

Fair enough, I see a lot of people making this valid argument in this thread.

My guess is if this was happening under the punching bag known as Wade Phillips, then more of that blame would have been shifted to him.

Not a single excuse, actually. There's no denying those guys are on the roster. You asked whether or not it indicated a discipline issue, not whether we had guys with a lot of suspensions on the roster. There are no 'special rules.' I just expect you to know the difference between an undisciplined player and a reclamation project. Jerry likes his reclamation projects. He's said it publicly, and made a big deal about investing in it. It shouldn't be a surprise to anybody that there are a lot of suspended games on the roster as a result.

That said, I'm not against giving these guys chances. The only thing I'm against is spending draft picks on troubled players or giving them big contracts we can't get out of easily. As long as we avoid both, if we dedicated one roster spot/year to one of Jerry's kids, I'm ok with that. You get a year like we got out of R. McClain in 2014, and it's generally worth it.

As for your final comment, that's a good point. If we're tops in the league in Garrett's whole tenure (basically since 2011), excluding Jerry's misfits, I'd say you have a point.

I think what bothered me about your post was how you grouped Ro/Brent in there are unique cases that shouldn't be counted. Ro was NOT forced on Garrett and Brent was out drinking with teammates and made a foolish/undisciplined decision that led to his suspension. I mean label each case whatever you want, at the end of the day it's the games missed that matters. We can't ignore the trend going on right now on defense. If we're going to continue this philosophy of reclamation projects, then we have to develop a better structure to keep these guys out of trouble. Whatever we have now btw Garrett-Jerry-Calvin Hill-etc. is not working. It's Garrett's responsibility to fix it, not play dumb when he's asked about it...which is what he did in his PC yesterday several times.

This stat means nothing to me. Could not care less. I care about 13-3. I care about no SB wins in 22 years. I even care about the domestic violence portion of the suspensions. But drug use and PEDs? Do. Not. Care.

That's what I care about too....which is why I care about player availability.