JFK Assassination...Your Honest Thoughts

[Hoofbite]

Working the rifle in 8.4 seconds impossible?

[youtube]qevLWsg6EyA[/youtube]

Didn't have much time to re-sight and aim, did he? Nice for what it is, graphic example of what must have happened, if the Oswald theory is correct.

You know what's funny about the footage.

Jesse Ventura couldn't even work the bolt.

This guy had zero trouble working the bolt.

 

[Hoofbite]

Why do people argue over what Jackie was doing?

Getting out of the way, getting a piece of skull.........does it matter?

 

[Sarge]

No conspiracy.

:signmast:

 

[jimmy40]

What would you say is more rational behavior in that situation:

getting the hell outta there?

or

reaching across the trunk for a peice of his skull....trying to put him back together? She testified that she was holding his skull together on the way to Parkland.

if the secret service agent doesn't stop her she is bouncing down the road behind the limo.

 

[jimmy40]

Why do people argue over what Jackie was doing?

Getting out of the way, getting a piece of skull.........does it matter?

because common sense is a big deal to some of us

 

[Rogah]

That's why I paraphrased them for you earlier. You don't belive me? I don't really care. I did the research.

To answer your question, no I don't believe you. The funny thing about paraphrasing is that you can interpret/distort the comments to mean pretty much anything you want.

Your unwillingness/inability to provide any actual quotes shows your argument completely lacks a foundation.

 

[Hoofbite]

because common sense is a big deal to some of us

Common sense tells me not to argue with people I think are lacking it.

 

[hutch1254]

One thing I found amusing was the "Driver theory" where there were people who believed the driver, William Greer, who was secret service and a driver for years, turned and shot JFK with a .45. In the Zapruder film you can clearly see him turn around to look behind him. Sitting next to him is Roy Kellerman. Apparently the hair grease in Roy's hair gives off a shiny look coincidentally at the same height as Greer's arm as Greer turns to look behind him. People see the shine and the turn and assumed it was a nickel plated .45, but here's the good part.

Take a look at the film. When Greer turns to look back...HIS HANDS ARE STILL ON OR AT THE STEERING WHEEL.

Still, there are people who believe it was the driver. LOL.

 

[CowboyDan]

To answer your question, no I don't believe you. The funny thing about paraphrasing is that you can interpret/distort the comments to mean pretty much anything you want.

Your unwillingness/inability to provide any actual quotes shows your argument completely lacks a foundation.

Don't call me a liar because you're lazy......

Mrs. Kennedy......

Mr. Rankin.
Did he turn toward you?
Mrs. Kennedy.
No; I was looking this way, to the left, and I heard these terrible noises. You know. And my husband never made any sound. So I turned to the right. And all I remember is seeing my husband, he had this sort of quizzical look on his face, and his hand was up, it must have been his left hand. And just as I turned and looked at him, I could see a piece of his skull and I remember it was flesh colored. I remember thinking he just looked as if he had a slight headache. And I just remember seeing that. No blood or anything.
And then he sort of did this [indicating], put his hand to his forehead and fell in my lap.
And then I just remember falling on him and saying, "Oh, no, no, no," I mean, "Oh, my God, they have shot my husband." And "I love you, Jack," I remember I was shouting. And just being down in the car with his head in my lap. And it just seemed an eternity.
You know, then, there were pictures later on of me climbing out the back. But I don't remember that at all.
Mr. Rankin.
Do you remember Mr. Hill coming to try to help on the car?
Mrs. Kennedy.
I don't remember anything. I was just down like that. And finally I remember a voice behind me, or something, and then I remember the people in the front seat, or somebody, finally knew something was wrong, and a voice yelling, which must have been Mr. Hill, "Get to the hospital,"or maybe it was Mr. Kellerman [the Secret Service Agent], in the front seat. But someone yelling. I was just down and holding him. [Reference to wounds deleted.] -From Jackie's Warren Commission testimony

And here's the scoop on the deleted references to his wounds by the Warren Commission.....
Court Reporter's Tape Shows
Additional Description Withheld
Dallas, TX -- August 5, 2001 -- JFK Lancer, an historical research firm reports that the Court Reporter's tape shows Jacqueline Kennedy's testimony before the Warren Commission had additional descriptions which were withheld.
Mrs. Kennedy testified in a short private session held at her home in Washington, D.C., with Chief Justice Earl Warren, Commission General Council J. Lee Rankin, Attorney General Robert Kennedy, and a court reporter in attendance. Testimony of witnesses before the Warren Commission was made public in the fall of 1964. Jacqueline Kennedy's testimony was also released containing her description of her husbands wounds which read :

"And just as I turned and looked at him, I could see a piece of his skull and I remember it was flesh colored. I remember thinking he just looked as if he had a slight headache. And I just remember seeing that. No blood or anything."
But a second section in which she described the wounds she saw carried only the notation: (Reference to Wounds Deleted).
Although very few Americans actually read those transcripts, historians and researchers who did read them were outraged, and waged a legal battle to have the omitted testimony released. In the early 1970s, a court decision required the United States Government to disclose to the public the contents of the still classified section of Mrs. Kennedy's 1964 Warren Commission testimony. Her previously withheld statement read:

" I was trying to hold his hair on. From the front there was nothing --- I suppose there must have been. But from the back you could see, you know, you were trying to hold his hair on, and his skull on."
Releasing this previously withheld section gave researchers what was assumed to be Mrs. Kennedy's complete description of the President's head wounds. Researchers took for granted that the hand-typed transcript page released by the National Archives from the official records of the Warren Commission ended the matter.
However, new analysis reveals that the original court tape actually reads:

"... I could see a piece of his skull sort of wedge-shaped, like that, and I remember that it was flesh colored with little ridges at the top."


Mrs. Connally.....

WHEN SHE TALKS ABOUT events beyond horror, Nellie Connally skirts the hardest details.
“The interior of the car was covered in bloody little bits of matter, like buckshot,” she says. “It was all over my clothes, all over everything. And that was the shot that took the President’s head.”
She quotes Jacqueline Kennedy’s words to emphasise how unimaginably awful it was in that Lincoln limousine in Dallas on Friday, November 22, 1963. “Jackie said ‘They’ve killed my husband. I have his brains in my hand’. I didn’t know what it was. But I knew that whatever it was, it was lethal, because there was so much of it all over us.” -From The Times November 20, 2003 By Roland Watson

By GLEN JOHNSON
Associated Press Writer
BOSTON (AP) -- Even in her grief, Jacqueline Kennedy had the
strength to recount her husband's assassination in vivid detail and
the presence of mind to convey her hopes for his memorials.
"His last expression was so neat," Mrs. Kennedy told
journalist Theodore H. White in comments released for the first
time Friday. "He had his hand out, I could see a piece of his
skull coming off ... and I can see this perfectly clean piece
detaching itself from his head.
"Then he slumped in my lap," she said. "His blood and brains
were in my lap.
"I kept saying: `Jack, Jack, Jack' and someone was yelling:
`He's dead, he's dead.' All the ride to the hospital I kept bending
over him saying: `Jack, Jack, can you hear me, I love you Jack.' I
kept holding the top of his head down, trying to keep the brains
in," she said on Nov. 29, 1963, a week after the president's
assassination. -From CAMELOT REVISITED Copyright 1995 The Associated Press

Agent Clint Hill's testimony.....

[SIZE=-1]Mr. SPECTER. You say that it appeared that she was reaching as if something was coming over to the rear portion of the car, back in the area where you were coming to?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Mr. HILL. Yes, sir.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Mr. SPECTER. Was there anything back there that you observed, that she might have been reaching for?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Mr. HILL. I thought I saw something come off the back, too, but I cannot say that there was. I do know that the next day we found the portion of the President's head.[/SIZE]​

Again, take it for what it's worth, but my paraphrasing doesn't change anything they said.

 

[CowboyDan]

Two things that I find incredibly interesting in the above testimony is that Jackie, the first person to have an upclose view at the wounds, stated the following....
" I was trying to hold his hair on. From the front there was nothing --- I suppose there must have been. But from the back you could see, you know, you were trying to hold his hair on, and his skull on."

This contradicts the thinking that there was a clean wound in the back of his head, and supports the statements made by the first doctors to work on JFK at Parkland, and their claims of a large wound in the top/back of his head, which many believe is the exit wound.

The other thing I find interesting is that both Jackie and Agent Hill only heard 2 shots.
Mrs. Connally has a different take entirely.....
"Mrs Connally disputes the Warren Commission’s finding that Oswald’s first bullet missed and his second passed through Kennedy before hitting her husband. She remembers the first hitting the President and seeing his hands fly up to his neck."

 

[blindzebra]

Two things that I find incredibly interesting in the above testimony is that Jackie, the first person to have an upclose view at the wounds, stated the following....
" I was trying to hold his hair on. From the front there was nothing --- I suppose there must have been. But from the back you could see, you know, you were trying to hold his hair on, and his skull on."

This contradicts the thinking that there was a clean wound in the back of his head, and supports the statements made by the first doctors to work on JFK at Parkland, and their claims of a large wound in the top/back of his head, which many believe is the exit wound.

The other thing I find interesting is that both Jackie and Agent Hill only heard 2 shots.
Mrs. Connally has a different take entirely.....
"Mrs Connally disputes the Warren Commission’s finding that Oswald’s first bullet missed and his second passed through Kennedy before hitting her husband. She remembers the first hitting the President and seeing his hands fly up to his neck."

Are you kidding me?

Look at the freaking x-ray. His skull was shattered so of course there is damage to his entire skull but in no way shape or form does that statement say that he had a big exit wound in the back of his head.

The lengths that some will go to avoid the facts is beyond me.

And once again. The Parkland hospital staff are on record saying they never studied the wounds they were too busy trying to save him and that on looking at the autopsy photos they confirmed that what they saw matched the photos...in other words the top, right side of his head just above his ear got blasted out and he had a 6.5 mm entry wound on the back of his head.

That is right folks there is a beveled wound of entry the size of the ammo Oswald used on the back of his head.

 

[CowboyDan]

That is right folks there is a beveled wound of entry the size of the ammo Oswald used on the back of his head.

"...between 1992 and 1998, the Assassinations Records Review Board asked three independent forensic specialists to review the photographs and X-rays and all three were in unanimous agreement that the skull X-rays show no entry hole of any kind at any point on the back of the head. (Doug Horne, Inside the ARRB, pgs. 584-586) And, in fact, both of Hume's colleagues at the autopsy had already admitted as much.

In 1978, Dr. J. Thornton Boswell admitted to the HSCA pathology panel that what they had actually discovered after reflecting the scalp was not a through-and-through hole but a semicircular, beveled notch on the margin of the large defect, (7HSCA246, 260) a fact confirmed by Dr. Pierre Finck in his appearance before the Warren Commission when he explained that a “portion of [a] crater” had been used to identify the point of entrance. (2H379) So the conclusion that a bullet had entered the back of the head at this point was based on an inference and not on observation as Humes had claimed. And the alleged beveling of this notch was not the "foolproof" indicator he claimed it was. When a through-and-through hole is present, beveling is usually a valid indicator. But even then, as Dr. Donald Thomas writes in his brilliant book, Hear No Evil:


“There are important exceptions...even through-and-through perforations, are not infrequently beveled on the impact side...collateral information (evidence from the scalp wound, bone chips, fracture patterns, angle of trajectory, bullet fragments) must all be taken into consideration rather than reliance on external beveling alone...a common exception to the beveling rule are tangential entrance wounds, which may be beveled on either or both sides. The fact is, however, when dealing with fragments or margins of bone, and not through-and-through holes, all bets are off. [emphasis mine] This is because the laminate nature of the cranial bone lends itself to chipping that can easily be confused with beveling.” (pgs. 272-273)


One cannot help thinking that Dr. Humes was fully cognizant of the problems with relying solely on beveling which is why he lied and said that he had found a through-and-through hole. The fact is, as observers of the autopsy have confirmed, the autopsy doctors were confused by the evidence in front of them and, in reaching their conclusions, relied on reports coming in from Dallas that a lone assassin had fired on the President from above and behind."

I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying you might not be right.

 

[blindzebra]

Yes or no time.

Is there a large wound above the right ear going toward the top of his head and forehead?

Is the angle from the Grassy Knoll or anywhere else in Dealey plaza consistent with that wound?

Is there any evidence of damage to the left side of his head?

Is the fact that there is beveling at the back of the head and a large defect on that path proof that there was a back to front shot?

Is there any evidence of a front to back head wound?

 

[Rogah]

Don't call me a liar because you're lazy......

Excuse me, but it does not fall upon me to research and support the claims you are making. If you make a claim, you have to be the one to support it.

As for the actual testimony you posted, I don't see a single thing that supports the claim you made. You're unsuccessfully trying to pull one of the oldest tricks in the internet book: Make a bogus argument and then give a ridiculous amount of data which you claim supports your argument when it in fact does no such thing.

It's your right to wallow in ignorance, but my participation in this Mrs. Kennedy sidebar is at an end. I leave you to have the last word you so desperately desire...

 

[Hostile]

You know what's funny about the footage.

Jesse Ventura couldn't even work the bolt.

This guy had zero trouble working the bolt.

Yeah, I was amused at Jesse's "attempts."

The sadistic side of me wants to e-mail that video to him so he can see how ridiculous he comes out looking.

 

[The30YardSlant]

It was Castro IMO, he finally got tired of JFK and the CIA trying to kill him and finally got the go ahead from his buddies in Russia. Oswald was just the mentally ill hitman with nothing to lose and an agenda a mile long.

Oswald was a communist. He lived in Russia at one time and interacted with the KGB. He received a visa from the Cuban embassy a month before the assasination despite being previusly denied and being a textbook red flag. Several former KGB agents have come forth over the years saying it was a joint plot between Russia and Cuba. Jack Ruby was associated with the Russian and Cuban mafias.

Just too much smoke for there not to be something to it. LBJ went to his grave believing the Cubans were involved.

 

[arglebargle]

It could just as easily have been the anti-Castro Cubans, angry at the Bay of Bigs debacle. Project 40 had been doing this sort of thing for years. Anti-Castroites had the mafia connections too.

Some of the Oswald backstory is really puzzling: How does this guy desert from the Marines in the middle of the Cold War, live in Russia for years, marry a general's daughter, and then come back to the US, and is never arrested, picked up and debriefed,....nothing.

On the other hand, if the there's a secret briefing that every president gets about how Castro aced JFK, then it makes the Cuban Embargo make some sort of sense.

 

[The30YardSlant]

It could just as easily have been the anti-Castro Cubans, angry at the Bay of Bigs debacle. Project 40 had been doing this sort of thing for years. Anti-Castroites had the mafia connections too.

Some of the Oswald backstory is really puzzling: How does this guy desert from the Marines in the middle of the Cold War, live in Russia for years, marry a general's daughter, and then come back to the US, and is never arrested, picked up and debriefed,....nothing.

On the other hand, if the there's a secret briefing that every president gets about how Castro aced JFK, then it makes the Cuban Embargo make some sort of sense.

Most people believe Oswalt had serious mental problems beyond the obvious ones associated with people capable of killing in cold blood. Nothing he ever did made any sense. The government at the time was so preoccupied with Cuba and Russia that I doubt one AWOL marine was a pressing issue, though.

Supposedly LBJ was so sure that it was Castro that he had to be talked out of invading Cuba and nuking Russia on multiple occasions. I think we'd all be shocked if it ever came out just how close we came to world war three over the JFK assasination. One other piece of interesting info most never talk about is the fact that the the Soviet Army was reportedly mobilized on November 21, 1963 and remained so for six weeks afterwards. They knew something.

 

[LatinMind]

I think it was the Government, CIA and Military figures who wanted a war in Vietnam. Didnt want to let other nations view the US as weak esp after the bay of pigs disaster.

Think even LBJ had some knowledge of what was going to happen.

 

[blindzebra]

This is exactly why people think there was a conspiracy.

Oswald was not AWOL he got a honorable discharge.

There was a debriefing when he returned and there had an active FBI file on him at the time of the assassination and the agent on his case was named Hosty.


Oswald was a troubled and abused kid that hated authority. He was bright but a poor student. He was a text book narcissist that could not understand why others did not see his greatness.

He started studying Marxism in the marines and learned Russian. He tried to defect to the USSR but they did not want him. The KGB file on him said he was nuts and no way was he a spy. They were going to force him to leave so he attempted suicide and they allowed him to stay.

He got a job in a plant and met Marina. They married and she got pregnant. Disillusioned with the USSR he returned to the US. He was both verbally and physically abusive to his wife. He got worse and eventually he stayed in Oak Cliff alone and worked at the TSBD and the night before the assassination visited Marina at the Paine's where Marina was staying. He left all his money and his wedding ring on the dresser when he left for work. He left with a brown paper item he got from the Paine's garage.