Lawrence - Not So Much

[RustyBourneHorse]

Yeah but LSU made him look like crap last year too. Once is a coincidence.. twice is a trend. Yes Lawrence lit up an unprepared Bama is freshman year.. but I really think that was just more about Saban not getting through to his guys just how good Clemson was.. We often forget that half the guys on an NCAA team are teenagers.. or just quit being teenagers within the last few months.. Besides.. the "better talent" thing is an interesting conundrum. If Lawrence goes to JAX he's going to be surrounded by bottom 5 talent.. It's going to a far cry from what he has experienced in college.

Not to mention that the Jaguars are about as good as developing QBs as the Washington Commanders/WFT.

 

[RonnieT24]

I was simply replying to your comment about his college exploits lifting a program.
I completely agree that he has improved considerably since entering the NFL.
However that proves how delusional people who thought he was a top 10 QB in his first two seasons were. He was riding the dominant skills around him.
Can he win games in the NFL? Absolutely.
Can he be the consistent difference maker when its a dogfight and he has to make the difference passing the ball? He hasn't thus far.
Unfortunately, even at his current level a lot of us still haven't seen a guy who can put the ball where it needs to be when you are playing really good defenses and you HAVE to beat the coverage with pinpoint throws to well covered receivers if the team is going to win. When you can't stop a drive with throws in the ground, over the head or behind the receiver.
This is 4+ seasons for him so this isn't some hot take. If I had faith he could take that next step, I would be all for re-signing him. Its the doubt that makes me reluctant to tie the franchise to him for the next X years.
Nothing against the person or competitor, just not sure he has that next level in him.

I admit had some of those same doubts until I watched him drag this team back from down 20+ points multiple this year.. with only a token running game and an offensive line in serious flux. The number of pinpoint throws he made with pass rushers all around him, in his face, at times hanging off him showed me something new that I had not seen in him previously. Coming back to take the lead against Seattle started it. Then coming back from down 20 to beat the Falcons further illustrated it. By about the middle of the 4th quarter of the Cleveland game I was sold. He wasn't the limited game manager we had seen him be most of his career in Dallas anymore.. He was a guy who could sling it with the best of them and STILL have the added element of a 240 pound dude with good mobility who was also strong enough to shake off pass rushers. I know the narrative by some was that those teams were "playing soft" but after Dak carved them up for two or three TDs in a matter of a 5-6 minutes nobody can convince me that they KEPT playing soft. Especially when I watched the pass rush overpowering our UDFA tackles. If folks want to focus on what happened last year fine.. but if we look at what is in front of us the worst thing we can say regarding Dak is we have a top 10 QB just hitting his prime. If the Joneses don't agree then fine.. Let him walk.. then watch him go lead some contender with a decent defense to a title.. Snyder would send his private plane to get him out of Dallas.. Kraft probably would as well.

 

[Jason 82 Witten]

The Heisman Trophy means nothing, since 1990 only a handful of players have made an impact in the NFL winning the Heisman

 

[tyke1doe]

With all the talk earlier in the season that the Cowboys should tank to possibly get a crack at Lawrence and all the talk about Lawrence going to be the next great QB, yet with so many people trying to make all their proclamations about Lawrence you would think he would have been an automatic lock for and gotten college football biggest award, the Heisman Trophy. But he didn't. As always, I'll wait and see what a player does in the NFL before making any proclamations.

Elway didn't win it.
Peyton didn't win it.
Luck didn't win it.
Mahomes didn't win it.
LT didn't win it.

You get the point.

 

[Sydla]

Ok.
Dude.

I am surprised you are this naive. You seem to typically be in tune with what's being said.

 

[tyke1doe]

What also amazes me is that everyone here who was pounding the table to do anything and everything to trade up to get TL was because Dak isn’t a winner.
What is TL’s championship record?
These people don’t make sense.

What is Brady's, Elway's, Peyton's, Luck's, Mahome's, Brees', Wilson's, Rodgers' championship record?

Championship wins isn't a criterion for success in the NFL. Even so, Lawrence won one and played in two.

 

[gjkoeppen]

So anyone who hasnt won a heisman shouldnt be the top pick. Got it.

Any other reasons you dont like lawrence?

At no time have I said or implied that any player that hasn't won the Heisman shouldn't be the first pick. You're just another person that has tried to change what I actually said into something else. All I've done is point out that there have been players coming out of college in the past that the sporting world have raved about that turned out to be a bust. So as usual I wait until I see what ANY player does in the NFL before I make any proclamations. You see unlike all those that want to rave about any player coming out of college, I understand that these players who get drafted spend their college careers playing the majority of it against players who do not ever play in the NFL, so it's easier to look good than actually playing against actual NFL players. This is why I wait until I see what they do in the NFL before proclaiming anything.
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[G2]

I am surprised you are this naive. You seem to typically be in tune with what's being said.

I bet you are.

 

[McKDaddy]

I admit had some of those same doubts until I watched him drag this team back from down 20+ points multiple this year.. with only a token running game and an offensive line in serious flux. The number of pinpoint throws he made with pass rushers all around him, in his face, at times hanging off him showed me something new that I had not seen in him previously. Coming back to take the lead against Seattle started it. Then coming back from down 20 to beat the Falcons further illustrated it. By about the middle of the 4th quarter of the Cleveland game I was sold. He wasn't the limited game manager we had seen him be most of his career in Dallas anymore.. He was a guy who could sling it with the best of them and STILL have the added element of a 240 pound dude with good mobility who was also strong enough to shake off pass rushers. I know the narrative by some was that those teams were "playing soft" but after Dak carved them up for two or three TDs in a matter of a 5-6 minutes nobody can convince me that they KEPT playing soft. Especially when I watched the pass rush overpowering our UDFA tackles. If folks want to focus on what happened last year fine.. but if we look at what is in front of us the worst thing we can say regarding Dak is we have a top 10 QB just hitting his prime. If the Joneses don't agree then fine.. Let him walk.. then watch him go lead some contender with a decent defense to a title.. Snyder would send his private plane to get him out of Dallas.. Kraft probably would as well.

If we re-sign him, I hope you are right!!

 

[gjkoeppen]

Elway didn't win it.
Peyton didn't win it.
Luck didn't win it.
Mahomes didn't win it.
LT didn't win it.

You get the point.

You obviously have reading comprehension problem. Nowhere did I say or imply any player that didn't win the Heisman was any good. What I did say paraphrasing was with the sporting world piling on all the raving about Lawrence that one would think he then was an automatic complete lock to win the Heisman but he didn't. Next time read all the words and try reading slower so you understand.
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[CouchCoach]

The Heisman Trophy means nothing, since 1990 only a handful of players have made an impact in the NFL winning the Heisman

Many see that as the "Most Likely to Succeed in the NFL" award and it's not close to that. There is no connection between the two but one man, Crazy Al, loved him some Heisman winners.

 

[RonnieT24]

Many see that as the "Most Likely to Succeed in the NFL" award and it's not close to that. There is no connection between the two but one man, Crazy Al, loved him some Heisman winners.

The Heisman trophy has never had anything to do with predicting success in the pros. Especially once they started basically handing it to the best QB in any given season. Back when it went to the best football player it was closer to reality but even then there were guys who won who were just great college players who were never going to do much in the pros. Hell Archie Griffin won two and nobody was surprised he was a JAG in the pros. Cappelletti(sp?)? Please.. Starting in about '75 they started to get it right.. Dorsett followed by Campbell followed by Sims followed by White followed by Rodgers followed by Allen followed by Herschel followed by Rozier.. of course the thing all those guys have in common is they were running backs.. and back then a dominant college RB was at least going to be a GOOD NFL RB at worst. Still that was a pretty good run which was broken up by Flutie? I think? We know QB is the toughest position of all to project from college to pro but I think it's getting easier as the two games are being played more and more alike each year.

 

[tyke1doe]

You obviously have reading comprehension problem. Nowhere did I say or imply any player that didn't win the Heisman was any good. What I did say paraphrasing was with the sporting world piling on all the raving about Lawrence that one would think he then was an automatic complete lock to win the Heisman but he didn't. Next time read all the words and try reading slower so you understand.
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Nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. I read what you wrote. I'll repeat it again. Here is what you wrote:

With all the talk earlier in the season that the Cowboys should tank to possibly get a crack at Lawrence and all the talk about Lawrence going to be the next great QB, yet with so many people trying to make all their proclamations about Lawrence you would think he would have been an automatic lock for and gotten college football biggest award, the Heisman Trophy. But he didn't. As always, I'll wait and see what a player does in the NFL before making any proclamations.

You tied his supposed greatest to him not winning the Heisman Trophy. It is the ONLY criterion you cite.

So my response:

Elway didn't win it.
Peyton didn't win it.
Luck didn't win it.
Mahomes didn't win it.
LT didn't win it.

Is the PERFECT response.

 

[ShaneFalco]

What is Brady's, Elway's, Peyton's, Luck's, Mahome's, Brees', Wilson's, Rodgers' championship record?

Championship wins isn't a criterion for success in the NFL. Even so, Lawrence won one and played in two.

You can add Montana, Kelly, Marino. The list goes on of QBs that not a single person here would pass on with a 1st pick but didn’t win it all in college. Elway never even went to a Bowl game. His best chance was shattered by, “The band is on the field!!!!!” And yet he picked up a team of scrubs on his back not once, not twice but three times and marched them to the SB in the 80’s. I don’t think there’s ever been a player who’s done that and I’m sure there’s never been one who did it three times. And that was when you could murder the QB no questions asked.

 

[Philmonroe]

What is Brady's, Elway's, Peyton's, Luck's, Mahome's, Brees', Wilson's, Rodgers' championship record?

Championship wins isn't a criterion for success in the NFL. Even so, Lawrence won one and played in two.

The poster you're responding to is another extreme Dak fan. You have to take the logic some use with a mountain of salt.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. I read what you wrote. I'll repeat it again. Here is what you wrote:



You tied his supposed greatest to him not winning the Heisman Trophy. It is the ONLY criterion you cite.

So my response:

Elway didn't win it.
Peyton didn't win it.
Luck didn't win it.
Mahomes didn't win it.
LT didn't win it.

Is the PERFECT response.

No again you proved you have comprehension problem. Nowhere did I say or imply anything about his abilities. What I said was if (and I'll word really really simple so you can get it) the sporting world has raved and piled on so much praise for Lawrence, one (again meaning the average Joe) would think Lawrence had a automatic complete total lock to win the Heisman, but he didn't win it. Now where in that did I personally speaking for myself say or imply anything about his playing abilities? All I did was speak about what the sporting world did and how the Heisman voting turned out. Now if you still don't get it, go back to like the 3rd grade and take a reading class again.
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[CalPolyTechnique]

You obviously have reading comprehension problem. Nowhere did I say or imply any player that didn't win the Heisman was any good. What I did say paraphrasing was with the sporting world piling on all the raving about Lawrence that one would think he then was an automatic complete lock to win the Heisman but he didn't. Next time read all the words and try reading slower so you understand.
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Which is a moronic oversimplification on your end.

 

[DFWJC]

Dak took a garbage program to a number 1 rating in college.

TL couldnt beat anyone with a great roster, and a legend of a college coach.

All I am pointing out. Is that football is a TEAM sport no matter who the QB is.

TL and Clemson blew out Alabama for the national title two years ago and beat Ohio State and Fields last year.

Don't be silly

 

[DFWJC]

As I've said several times no, I've never said winning the Heisman guarantees any success in the NFL. All I've said is the Heisman is the biggest award in college football and Lawrence didn't get it. I also said that with all the talk and proclamations people were making about him that one would think he had a total lock on winning it yet he didn't.
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fwiw
Not the Heisman is any indicator of pro prospect quality, but most say he would've won it if he didn't have to miss his biggest game of the regular season due to Covid precautions

 

[DFWJC]

All of these QB's are risks including Lawrence but that "best prospect since Peyton Manning" sticks to him so he will go 1st. He also has been in the forefront on issues including let's play football and an owner loves that.

Every team takes their chances just as WAS did with Haskins and then decided to move on. AZ did that with Rosen and then MIA did the same thing. The fans expect their team to go for that guy when they don't have him except the Packers fans and they expect them to do that when they do have him.

CIN, MIA and LAC had no choice last draft. JAX, maybe NYJ, ATL, CAR, WAS have no choice, they have to take the risk, it is expected and if it doesn't work, do it all over again.

Every owner, GM, HC knows what the fans know, they have to have that guy and they are not ready until they do have him. And they don't care what the team has to do, the Skins fans weren't complaining when Snyder gave up the draft for Griffin.

I've heard "best prospect since Luck"
Never heard the since manning comment. Maybe here, but not in general