Neighborhood watch captain kills black teen - doesn't get arrested

[casmith07]

i really hope rockford posts tomorrow.

What for?

 

[iceberg]

What for?

he's very familiar w/florida law and the area. i respect his input.

 

[casmith07]

he's very familiar w/florida law and the area. i respect his input.

So am I.

"The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated without any design to effect death . . . is murder in the third degree and constitutes a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084." Title XLVI, Sec. 782.04 Crimes, Homicide (2011).

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

I doubt he gets charged with murder because I can't see definitive way of proving he set out with the intention of killing Trayvon.

If he is charged with manslaughter however, I think it likely means that they aren't buying his story of being attacked.

If they aren't buying that story, then I think something more than manslaughter should be given.

If you are at the point where Zimmerman confronted Trayvon and instigated the altercation, I don't think manslaughter is enough. I don't know what would be above it without being murder but starting a conflict in which you are getting your *** whipped and end up shooting someone should be more than just manslaughter.

The FBI are trying to break down the 911 tapes of who screamed. If they are able to confirm who it is that very well could decide whether they charge him with Manslaughter or Murder.

Will Zimmerman's voice on the 911 calls be enough to confirm who's voice it is or will they need a recording of Trayvon's voice as well.

 

[iceberg]

So am I.

"The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated without any design to effect death . . . is murder in the third degree and constitutes a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084." Title XLVI, Sec. 782.04 Crimes, Homicide (2011).

not here to fight.

understand.

 

[casmith07]

The FBI are trying to break down the 911 tapes of who screamed. If they are able to confirm who it is that very well could decide whether they charge him with Manslaughter or Murder.

Will Zimmerman's voice on the 911 calls be enough to confirm who's voice it is or will they need a recording of Trayvon's voice as well.

I disagree. I think it could determine what degree of murder they charge him with, and what sort of sentence they would seek.

not here to fight.

understand.

Oh I know. I've been doing quite a bit of research in the spare time I've had with regard to this case, most of it centered around trying to dissolve a lot of misconceptions out there about the law (primarily the "stand your ground" stuff that people keep going on and on about).

I don't want to get into another diatribe (I had to school some guy on facebook earlier, lol) but in short, the self-defense claims are pretty suspect, at best, and the "stand your ground" statute does not apply in this case.

[strike]If you would like details with cites and quotes from the statute I'd be happy to provide it, if it'll add anything to the discussion here for everyone.[/strike]

I'm actually working on a "self-defense guide for dummies" so to speak, and I'll likely post it here when I'm done...it'll basically include the laws in question, and then various generic scenarios similar to what is alleged to have happened in Florida. What I plan to do is use the most circulated fact pattern as the baseline, and then provide two on either side of that spectrum, and then follow it up with analysis for any other fact patterns that people wish to provide as questions.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

This story has received little to no attention from the American media:

Couple met and married within a month and stayed together for 65 years... only to be parted after home invader beat wife to death

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...romance-meeting-blind-date.html#ixzz1qMMjqwVR​

I'm pretty sure it would if the police decided not to charge him.

I really don't see why people keep bringing up all these other random cases, no one is going to defend the actions of the accused, unlike in this thread, and if you can't see that the reason this story has legs is because Zimmerman wasn't charged, then you truly don't want to understand.

If I looked hard enough I could find white on black crime that the national media doesn't report, white on asian, asian on white, hispanic on black or what ever I want. However it's rare you'll have a dead body of any color and someone standing over them with a smoking gun and not get charged.

 

[casmith07]

I'm pretty sure it would if the police decided not to charge him.

I really don't see why people keep bringing up all these other random cases, no one is going to defend the actions of the accused, unlike in this thread, and if you can't see that the reason this story has legs is because Zimmerman wasn't charged, then you truly don't want to understand.

If I looked hard enough I could find white on black crime that the national media doesn't report, white on asian, asian on white, hispanic on black or what ever I want. However it's rare you'll have a dead body of any color and someone standing over them with a smoking gun and not get charged.

Pretty much the crux of the issue.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

I disagree. I think it could determine what degree of murder they charge him with, and what sort of sentence they would seek.



Oh I know. I've been doing quite a bit of research in the spare time I've had with regard to this case, most of it centered around trying to dissolve a lot of misconceptions out there about the law (primarily the "stand your ground" stuff that people keep going on and on about).

I don't want to get into another diatribe (I had to school some guy on facebook earlier, lol) but in short, the self-defense claims are pretty suspect, at best, and the "stand your ground" statute does not apply in this case.

[strike]If you would like details with cites and quotes from the statute I'd be happy to provide it, if it'll add anything to the discussion here for everyone.[/strike]

I'm actually working on a "self-defense guide for dummies" so to speak, and I'll likely post it here when I'm done...it'll basically include the laws in question, and then various generic scenarios similar to what is alleged to have happened in Florida. What I plan to do is use the most circulated fact pattern as the baseline, and then provide two on either side of that spectrum, and then follow it up with analysis for any other fact patterns that people wish to provide as questions.

All Self Defense claims go out the window if that is Trayvon screaming. You can't claim Self Defense when someone is begging for their life.

If that's Trayvon then it will also mean that if Trayvon attacked Zimmerman it was out of fear for his life. Some made the point that "Stand Your Ground" would apply to Trayvon more than Zimmerman

 

[casmith07]

All Self Defense claims go out the window if that is Trayvon screaming. You can't claim Self Defense when someone is begging for their life.

If that's Trayvon then it will also mean that if Trayvon attacked Zimmerman it was out of fear for his life. Some made the point that "Stand Your Ground" would apply to Trayvon more than Zimmerman

Technically, self-defense goes out of the window in all instances unless Trayvon pulled a pistol on Zimmerman. You're only authorized to defend yourself with equal or lesser force, unless you're in your home or car when someone is attempting to commit a felony or unlawfully/forcibly enter your home/car.

And you're right, "stand your ground" would apply to Trayvon and would absolve him of any assault/battery charges stemming from a fight, had he been alive to testify. Thing is, with no weapon, and no means on his person likely to cause death or grievous bodily harm (you can't exactly kill someone with Skittles and Nestea), Zimmerman unlawfully escalated the permission to "meet force with force" by shooting him.

He should have been charged. This is what happens when the authorities don't even know what law they're supposed to be enforcing.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Technically, self-defense goes out of the window in all instances unless Trayvon pulled a pistol on Zimmerman. You're only authorized to defend yourself with equal or lesser force, unless you're in your home or car when someone is attempting to commit a felony or unlawfully/forcibly enter your home/car.

And you're right, "stand your ground" would apply to Trayvon and would absolve him of any assault/battery charges stemming from a fight, had he been alive to testify. Thing is, with no weapon, and no means on his person likely to cause death or grievous bodily harm (you can't exactly kill someone with Skittles and Nestea), Zimmerman unlawfully escalated the permission to "meet force with force" by shooting him.

He should have been charged. This is what happens when the authorities don't even know what law they're supposed to be enforcing.

Some think that Zimmerman had a reason to fear for his life. Because I guess they think that Trayvon was viciously beating Zimmerman and would have kept going until Zimmerman was dead.

I'm assuming that this is Zimmerman's defense and his only defense because Trayvon was unarmed. So Zimmerman;s lawyer will try to convince the jury that Trayvon's fists could have been deadly weapons.

Does Zimmerman have any medical records to prove his injuries or would it just end up as hear say in court?

I agree that a gun against fists is not equal force. Zimmerman was that overpowered that he couldn't have punched back or pushed Trayvon off of him?

 

[Hoofbite]

I'm pretty sure it would if the police decided not to charge him.

I really don't see why people keep bringing up all these other random cases, no one is going to defend the actions of the accused, unlike in this thread, and if you can't see that the reason this story has legs is because Zimmerman wasn't charged, then you truly don't want to understand.

If I looked hard enough I could find white on black crime that the national media doesn't report, white on asian, asian on white, hispanic on black or what ever I want. However it's rare you'll have a dead body of any color and someone standing over them with a smoking gun and not get charged.

Thank you.

The "why no attention here" crowd really should consider the situation at hand.

Furthermore, they should realize that Martin is not getting media coverage because the media selectively decides what to publicize or not but rather the media plays the crowd and reports what draws interest.

The fact that social media took over in this case and generated additional interest beyond what the story generated itself should not used as some sort of charge against the media.

 

[Hoofbite]

I was initially skeptical of the mothers motives in trademarking certain things but like WG said, I think it's because people are using it for profit.

I ran across this at break.com just now.

I think ultimately the mother will gain from having those trademarks but I think the primary concern right now is preventing other people from profiting off her dead child.

http://i5.***BLOCKED***/albums/y188/thehoofbite/bbdd54cd-0bc1-4625-98bb-ed051fff2f76_thumb.jpg

http://i5.***BLOCKED***/albums/y188/thehoofbite/ScreenShot2012-03-27at110611PM.jpg

http://i5.***BLOCKED***/albums/y188/thehoofbite/ScreenShot2012-03-27at110559PM.jpg

http://i5.***BLOCKED***/albums/y188/thehoofbite/ScreenShot2012-03-27at110546PM.jpg

 

[03EBZ06]

Zimmerman was that overpowered that he couldn't have punched back or pushed Trayvon off of him?

A 13 year old eyewitness who was walking the dog at the time of physical altercation between GZ and TM stated he saw two men on the ground but they were separated.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

The one thing I will say that really stinks about this whole thing is that most people have already drawn their line in the sand and it will no longer matter what the evidence suggests really happened. Anything short of a video and this will always be a lump in someone's throat.

That is truly sad.

 

[TheCount]

The one thing I will say that really stinks about this whole thing is that most people have already drawn their line in the sand and it will no longer matter what the evidence suggests really happened. Anything short of a video and this will always be a lump in someone's throat.

That is truly sad.

That's pretty much the case with anything people have strong opinions on, isn't it? I'm willing to accept that Zimmerman really was scared to death when he shot Trayvon, but that doesn't change the fact that he was the catalyst for the entire incident and thus still guilty of a crime, even if it's manslaughter, reckless endangerment or whatever else.

If he gets off, then I'd also expect Trayvon's family to file a wrongful death suit.

Zimmerman's friend said Zimmerman at first believed the whole thing would "blow over", like it was all so very inconvenient. I think he'll be dealing with the repercussions of his actions for a very long time. Trayvon won't have that opportunity as he's already paid the ultimate price for his response, whether it was overboard or not.

I really don't see why people keep bringing up all these other random cases, no one is going to defend the actions of the accused, unlike in this thread, and if you can't see that the reason this story has legs is because Zimmerman wasn't charged, then you truly don't want to understand.

I don't believe that for a second, you know exactly why they keep bringing up random cases.

 

[Smith22]

The truth will come out eventually. In my opinion, the screaming voice will help seal the deal. If that is Zimmerman screaming, and his injuries are proven true (broken nose and wounds to the back of his head), then it is plausible that he feared for his life.

If the voice is that of Trayvon, then it sounds like he was murdered. I'm also curious to find out how far the crime scene was from the vehicle. At one point, it is clear that Zimmerman exited his vehicle and is tracking him on foot, then is told by the dispatcher to not pursue him, and the call ends. Question is, did he retreat back to the vehicle or did he continue on foot.

I also wonder why the dispatcher did not stay on the phone. Police were on the way, and with the situation that Zimmerman described, why would 911 end the call?

 

[casmith07]

Some think that Zimmerman had a reason to fear for his life. Because I guess they think that Trayvon was viciously beating Zimmerman and would have kept going until Zimmerman was dead.

I'm assuming that this is Zimmerman's defense and his only defense because Trayvon was unarmed. So Zimmerman;s lawyer will try to convince the jury that Trayvon's fists could have been deadly weapons.

Does Zimmerman have any medical records to prove his injuries or would it just end up as hear say in court?

I agree that a gun against fists is not equal force. Zimmerman was that overpowered that he couldn't have punched back or pushed Trayvon off of him?

Well, the law also happens to agree that fists vs. pistol is not equal force.

You also still, in public, have the duty to retreat. Zimmerman had a truck - why did he get out of his truck?

 

[Doomsday101]

According to a report from ABC News’s Matt Gutman, the lead homicide investigator in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin recommended that George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter on the night of February 26. Multiple ABC News sources claim that investigator Chris Serino was “instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney’s office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn’t enough evidence to lead to a conviction.”

Gutman adds that “police brought Zimmerman into the station for questioning for a few hours on the night of the shooting, said Zimmerman’s attorney, despite his request for medical attention first. Ultimately they had to accept Zimmerman’s claim of self defense. He was never charged with a crime.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/investig...-zimmerman-the-night-of-shooting-sources-say/

 

[Doomsday101]

SANFORD, Fla – An elderly Florida couple have been forced to move into a hotel after their home address was wrongly tweeted as belonging to the man who shot teen Trayvon Martin.

The tweets were traced back to a man in California and the address was also reportedly retweeted by director Spike Lee to his almost 250,000 followers.

The couple, aged 70 and 72, have been harassed with hate mail, been hassled by media and had scared neighbors questioning them since the tweet, their son Chip Humble told the Orlando Sentinel.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/2...ms-killer-trayvon-miller-lives/#ixzz1qPwwFYF4