Situational awareness

[Toruk_Makto]

you are both incorrect

Win Probability goes up one 3rd and 1 with 2:25 and 2 TOs
vs
1st and 10 with 2:45 and 3 TOs

they were not going to get another 1st down pounding EE into the line so you punt with 2:00 minutes left
they have a much better chance of getting a 3rd and 1 and then it would be 1st and 10 with 1 TO and 2:20 left

worst case they fumbled and punted with 2:20 left and 1 TO which is almost identical to TM's scenario

So the play we are discussing is them giving away a first down they should have had... And you then turn around and suggest them getting another 1st down is somehow impossible.

OK buddy.

 

[Nightman]

So the play we are discussing is them giving away a first down they should have had... And you then turn around and suggest them getting another 1st down is somehow impossible.

OK buddy.

moving those goalposts after the defeat is your MO

they only got close to a first down because Dak made a great play out of nothing.....1st down EE ran into a brick wall, which is what he would have done if they gave Dak the spot......we weren't getting ANOTHER first down starting at 1st and 10.......we were really likely to get one a 3rd and 1

 

[TheHerd]

Romo may have got rid of the ball quicker, and has that uncanny pocket awareness to avoid those plays most of the time. But also Tony would not have been able to run for those first downs either. Dak had 3 and almost that 4th time.
So there is good and bad in both situations on both QB's. But Dak will learn. Hopefully pocket awareness can be learned and not just all a natural deal. time will tell on that one.

Dak needs to improve this, but he seems very own to review and learn from his mistakes.

I hate to turn every thread into a Romo vs. Dak debate, but for comparison Romo's highest season fumble total is 5, and 22 for his entire career. Dak is exceptional at avoiding picks. And we all have to remember he's in good first year.

 

[Nightman]

Your scenario
1-10 254 Zeke gets nothing TO #1 MINN
2-10 250 Dak gets 10yds OB
1-10 245 Zeke gets nothing TO #2 MINN
2-10 240 Zeke gets 2 yds TO #3 MINN
3-8 235 Zeke gets 2 yds
4-6 200 Punt
MINN Ball
1-10 150 (this is almost exaclty what happened- off by 2 short plays....MINN got the ball with 209 left)

My scenario
1-10 254 Zeke gets nothing TO #1 MINN
2-10 250 Dak gets 9yds TO #2 MINN
3-1 225 Zeke gets 2 yds TO #3 MINN
1-10 220 Zeke gets nothing
2-10 200 Zeke gets 2 yds
3-8 115 Zeke gets 2yds
4-6 30 Punt
MINN Ball
1-10 20secs left

It is worth going for the 1st in bounds every time....your way saved 19 seconds

 

[T-RO]

I'm more concerned with him holding the ball too long in the pocket. He has to understand that you don't have 7 seconds to throw the ball. I know our offensive line is great, but he has to be more decisive about getting the ball out. It is really hard to criticize him on this because he is a rookie, but he certainly isn't playing like one!

He has 7 seconds...when he has 7 seconds. This criticism doesn't make sense the same as it didn't make sense with Romo.

There are a ton of huge plays that never get made, third down conversions that never happen if these two warriors prematurely throw the ball away.

Go back and watch the many huge plays that happen late in the play with both of them...

 

[Toruk_Makto]

moving those goalposts after the defeat is your MO

they only got close to a first down because Dak made a great play out of nothing.....1st down EE ran into a brick wall, which is what he would have done if they gave Dak the spot......we weren't getting ANOTHER first down starting at 1st and 10.......we were really likely to get one a 3rd and 1

Best offense in football. Running back who averaged over 4 yards a carry. Somehow your argument hinges on their inability to get a first down.

Nevermind that you're somehow arguing that 3rd and 1 is better than getting the first down because then you can gain a first down but it'll be hard to get first downs only running for 4 yards a pop or something.

 

[Fletch]

Dak needs to run through the sticks and convert that third down, it ends the game....staying in bounds is irrelevant when you don't convert...I don't remember seeing s defender ready to lay him out...regardless...he needs to get past the sticks...must say I was quite disappointed in that play...

Are you ******* kidding me with that ****? He was doing his best to do what you just claimed he should've done. He was sooo close. That was his goal. That was a mistake that even vets would make -- judging the distance of the slide past the marker. That was a helluva play by Dak. Foolish of you to think he didn't know the scenario and was just trying to get down by sliding.

We're 11-1 and you are calling out a rookie playing lights out. Mmmkay.

 

[Nightman]

Best offense in football. Running back who averaged over 4 yards a carry. Somehow your argument hinges on their inability to get a first down.

Nevermind that you're somehow arguing that 3rd and 1 is better than getting the first down because then you can gain a first down but it'll be hard to get first downs only running for 4 yards a pop or something.

Is it easier to get a first on 3rd and 1 or 1st and 10? There is only one right answer

 

[TheHerd]

the rule is too vague imo....when did he start the slide?.....when he decelerates, when the shin hits, when the back knee hits, when the butt hits??????

I though he got it a by yard in real time.......in slo mo you could argue he was 3 yards short or got it by 2 yards

This is one of tinfoil hat reasons. If you've ever seen the NFL rule book, it's insanely vague. Seems intentional and allows for refs to have an out. Either that or the people writing the rulebook are idiots, which is hard to believe in a multi billion dollar business.

 

[Seven]

love the sig man..clints the man

Thanks, my man.

 

[Oh_Canada]

I'm fine with that run and the slide. Yes it would've been nice to get the first down, but he stayed in bounds, avoided a hit, and set up a 3rd and 1. Can't ask for much more than that. If not for the bad snap/fumble, we most likely convert that.

Boy, people will find anything to complain about.

 

[pavalley]

Are you ******* kidding me with that ****? He was doing his best to do what you just claimed he should've done. He was sooo close. That was his goal. That was a mistake that even vets would make -- judging the distance of the slide past the marker. That was a helluva play by Dak. Foolish of you to think he didn't know the scenario and was just trying to get down by sliding.

We're 11-1 and you are calling out a rookie playing lights out. Mmmkay.

take a pill, simply surprised that he didn't ball out to get the first...he is playing way beyond expectations and his awareness is exceptional...Im simply saying that its not his norm, I would expect him to pound the sticks and not leave it to another play or an interp by the refs......

 

[pavalley]

Thanks, my man.

my father made me a fan many years ago with high plains drifter, never gets old watchin that one.....waaaaah waaaah waaaaah

 

[DFWJC]

If I had to pick a single play where Dak seemed to have great situational awareness, it was probably the one the OP is using as the opposite.

• Running is not a preference for him, yet knowing how huge the play was, he took off around end and accelerated more than I'm used to seeing.
• Then knowing we wanted to run the clock, he stays in bounds. (The coaches were elated with this move).
• Then, knowing the coaches don't want him running unless he sides, he slid...thinking he had the first down easily (and he did by the old rules)

I guess one thing I CAN agree with the OP on is that Dak down wrong in thinking he had the 1st down because he slid past the marker before being touched.
That had nothing to do with not fully understanding the situation.

 

[pavalley]

Thanks, my man.

did you ever see on you tube the video of the actual small group creating that signature, horse whip, whistle and such...its very cool...check it out if you haven't !

 

[Fletch]

Alright. Should've toned it down. But what I saw out of that play was Dak doing everything he could to get the first. It was just a miniscual miscalculation on when to begin his slide. I thought he had it. It was reviewed because he was that close. That is a play I don't see Tony, at this stage in his career, making. Dak was on the cusp of doing so. The effort and understanding by Dak was all there.

 

[pavalley]

If I had to pick a single play where Dak seemed to have great situational awareness, it was probably the one the OP is using as the opposite.

• Running is not a preference for him, yet knowing how huge the play was, he took off around end and accelerated more than I'm used to seeing.
• Then knowing we wanted to run the clock, he stays in bounds. (The coaches were elated with this move).
• Then, knowing the coaches don't want him running unless he sides, he slid...thinking he had the first down easily (and he did by the old rules)

I guess one thing I CAN agree with the OP on is that Dak down wrong in thinking he had the 1st down because he slid past the marker before being touched.
That had nothing to do with not fully understanding the situation.

Not sure the old rules matter, no need to make an excuse....Most miss my point, im not being critical, the play simply seemed unlike him to not know exactly the spot he needed...converting first downs wins games, plain and simple...continuous execution of said will get you closer to winning more often than not...feel free to now post all the crazy exceptions...

 

[pavalley]

Alright. Should've toned it down. But what I saw out of that play was Dak doing everything he could to get the first. It was just a miniscual miscalculation on when to begin his slide. I thought he had it. It was reviewed because he was that close. That is a play I don't see Tony, at this stage in his career, making. Dak was on the cusp of doing so. The effort and understanding by Dak was all there.

completely agree....Most miss my point, im not being critical, the play simply seemed unlike him to not know exactly the spot he needed...converting first downs wins games, plain and simple...continuous execution of said will get you closer to winning more often than not...

 

[aikemirv]

I am not sure how you can be FINE with the run and the slide. You have to make sure you get the first down there and end the game - period end of story. That play is just as bad as Twill not going out of bounds IMO. Bonehead play given the circumstance. Almost cost us the game. when it was an easy pickup.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I have no issue with it. Initially I thought he'd gained the first down.

The technical way the rules work he didn't but I wasn't worried because he gave us 3rd and a short 1.

The actual mistake was on the 3rd and 1 play by fumbling the snap.

But that doesn't matter either, at this point, because they won.