Speculation: FSU and Clemson to big 12?

[DFWJC]

That would be ESPN. There is a reason, IMO, the gap is closing. The NCAA and ESPN need 5 leagues.

Crickets.

The ACC was going nowhere.
Go Heels

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Crickets.

The ACC was going nowhere.
Go Heels

Before you break your own arm patting yourself on the back, remember that this is only a discussion and nothing has been agreed upon. I do think ESPN and the NCAA are behind this, for the most part, but that doesn't mean ND will join the ACC. At best, it probably means ND will use the ACC if they have no better offer but probably will not join. At worst, and I believe this to be more likely, ND is using the ACC, like they have in the past. They are doing the same to the Big 10 and the Big 12 so it's not as if you are in poor company. I think that all of this might end up being another ND whitewash job but we will see. It is possible that ND could consider joining but unlikely IMO.

 

[MC KAos]

i think ND figured the pac 12 and big 10 have their bowl, now the sec and big 12 will have theirs, so they might as well have their own bowl with the best leftover league. i REALLY hope the big12/SEC bowl ends up being the cotton!

 

[jterrell]

Crickets.

The ACC was going nowhere.
Go Heels

You really are reading this wrong.

ND just agreed to be the de facto 6th conference and basically replace the Big East. So you get the OB with ND provided it wins 8 or more games versus the ACC champ.... /golfclap

You think that excites tv execs more than SEC champ versus Big 12 Champ?

Stop kidding yourself. The OB is a low payout bowl now and the Rose/Champs Bowls are the ONLY two truly high payout bowls.

The rich get richer.

FSU is STILL looking at the Big 12 because after a 12m difference between basic league membership plus t3 rights they'd also make TWICE as much money off of bowl affiliation.

What the ACC needs is ND in the league in full. That allows tv renegotiation and addresses a BAD tv contract. One ESPN has shown no desire to re-write. ESPN is NOT the ACC's friend here dude. They are the reason they are getting kicked int he teeth. That and Swofford's ******** nepotistic tier 3 deal.

Again actual people with brains have run these numbers and in the last 12 years the results are 4 OB match ups for ND versus ACC teams with 2 or fewer losses. ONLY 4 times in 12 years. So the OB is selling a bowl that will happen only if the ACC and ND isn't TOO GOOD or TOO BAD and history has shown it occurs only 33% of the time.

ND has bled the Big East dry and is now doing the same to others. IT definitely left the Big 12 limping after their year long DeLoss leg humping. But the ACC is the one it can leech off of fully now. Get BIG guaranteed OB money for playing games what would have been 5 of the past 17 years. That's ACC money they are just flat stealing ... WITHOUT JOINING.

Well played ND, well played indeed.

 

[jterrell]

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV

The OB will generate the least amount of $ and the least amount of buzz.
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53m The Dude of WV The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV

The Sugar would rather have the SEC #2 or #3 than the ACC #1. The Fiesta would rather have the B12 #2 or #3 than ACC or ND.
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54m The Dude of WV The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV

I don't understand why the ACC resigning with the OB, when other bowls passed on both them & ND, means the ACC is "saved".
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55m The Dude of WV The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV

If you look at what the other "former" BCS bowls have done you see that the ACC & ND were not really wanted.
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56m The Dude of WV The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV

@dennisdoddcbs Why do you think the Rose & B12-SEC bowls do not wanting to be in regular playoff rotation? To keep others from their $?
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2h Dennis Dodd Dennis Dodd ‏@dennisdoddcbs

Fact ND is hooking up with OB confirms lack of open spots in playoff. Even ND's history/tradition can't save it a spot http://trib.in/PH3aVF
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2h Dennis Dodd Dennis Dodd ‏@dennisdoddcbs

The possibility of ND being 9-3, 8-4 is more enticing to OB than Big East champ in ANY year.
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2h Dennis Dodd Dennis Dodd ‏@dennisdoddcbs

Fiesta rep was made with freedom of arranging best possible matchup (Miami-PSU, 1987), why lock into ND?
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2h Dennis Dodd Dennis Dodd ‏@dennisdoddcbs

Sugar wants SEC, SEC, SEC, no reason to lock into ND? To me, ND's football is finally catching up to it.
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3h Lou Ciaccia Lou Ciaccia ‏@louciaccia

RT @IngramSmith @MHver3 Will playing ND yearly and reaping a larger cut of the Orange Bowl monies be enough to sate FSU?
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1h Ingram Smith Ingram Smith ‏@IngramSmith

@dennisdoddcbs decent chance ND plays their way out of O Bowl. 4 loses or more little interest, 1 loss (or less) likely in 4 team p-off
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1h Ingram Smith Ingram Smith ‏@IngramSmith

@dennisdoddcbs right. ACC somewhat needs a goldilocks ND where they are good enough to have game matter, but not good enough for 4 team Poff

 

[MC KAos]

well this is how relevant ND is now a days....

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[DFWJC]

Before you break your own arm patting yourself on the back, remember that this is only a discussion and nothing has been agreed upon. I do think ESPN and the NCAA are behind this, for the most part, but that doesn't mean ND will join the ACC. At best, it probably means ND will use the ACC if they have no better offer but probably will not join. At worst, and I believe this to be more likely, ND is using the ACC, like they have in the past. They are doing the same to the Big 10 and the Big 12 so it's not as if you are in poor company. I think that all of this might end up being another ND whitewash job but we will see. It is possible that ND could consider joining but unlikely IMO.

Too late, the arm is in a sling.

No, seriously, I am not at all implying that ND will join the ACC, nor have I ever implied that. ND is not really of interest to me.
I've just maintained that the ACC will remain fully in the mix and would not see FSU and Clemson decide to leave the ACC this summer.
When all factors are included and the focus is not narrow, it's clear to me that it is a very, very good conference. Just look at the institutions from top to bottom--it is impressive on many levels. It's just has not been as good as some on the football field over the last 7-8 years.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Too late, the arm is in a sling.

No, seriously, I am not at all implying that ND will join the ACC, nor have I ever implied that. ND is not really of interest to me.
I've just maintained that the ACC will remain fully in the mix and would not see FSU and Clemson decide to leave the ACC this summer.
When all factors are included and the focus is not narrow, it's clear to me that it is a very, very good conference. Just look at the institutions from top to bottom--it is impressive on many levels. It's just has not been as good as some on the football field over the last 7-8 years.

:laugh2:

OK. Fair enough.

I do believe that the FSU/Clemson issue is far from done with regards to jumping to the Big 12. Not saying that it will happen but I do believe that this issue has not gone away.

 

[MC KAos]

i think if the big 12 wanted them, they both would have left the ACC, but ultimately the big 12 didnt have everyone on board with the move, or expansion in the first place.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

i think if the big 12 wanted them, they both would have left the ACC, but ultimately the big 12 didnt have everyone on board with the move, or expansion in the first place.

Great point. I think that the Big 12 is holding out for ND. Now, this could be a good thing or a bad thing. It could be good because this could be the kicker that makes the Big 12 move forward with expansion plans for FSU/Clemson or whomever or, it could be that they view this as another step in negotiations for ND. I don't know the answer to this. I mean, at this point, ND is really only talking to ACC. It's hard to base anything on just discussions and no actual actions or agreements.

 

[jterrell]

Great point. I think that the Big 12 is holding out for ND. Now, this could be a good thing or a bad thing. It could be good because this could be the kicker that makes the Big 12 move forward with expansion plans for FSU/Clemson or whomever or, it could be that they view this as another step in negotiations for ND. I don't know the answer to this. I mean, at this point, ND is really only talking to ACC. It's hard to base anything on just discussions and no actual actions or agreements.

Big 12 will have another team by 2014.
They want it to be ND but if that looks unlikely they'd gladly take FSU.

What they really want is an 11.5 team set up. No championship game. ND is the half and FSU is team 11. But both FSU and ND are balking at that for now. FSU would want guarantees and up front buyout money. Doable but a harder sell to teams like Iowa State who would lose annual games with Texas and also likely never face ND.

Apparently Tech, WVA, TCU, KST are all for immediate FSU expansion. Maryland or Louisville would be the 12th team. Clemson has talked their way out of consideration for now. UT/OU want no part of Louisville or Maryland or Champ Game. Iowa State and Kansas wants no part of a big 12 split where they miss games versus UT/OU regularly. Makes their own financial situation worse.

So it's all a work in progress as everyone angles for whats best for them but all in all there is zero doubt there will be expansion.

 

[jterrell]

Bowlsby leaked today that the SEC expects the Big 12 to be at 12 teams and have a Champ Game by the time of the Champs Bowl. It is expected that the winner of the Big12 CG and winner of the SEC CG meet in this new bowl game. If Big 12 didn't expand the deal would be re-examined or forfeit. Bowlsby leaked this to get movement amongst his own ADs as to which teams to take.

Apparently they were at 5 votes for Clemson. Didn't have a majority. A couple people prefer Louisville but others just didn't want to lose yearly games with UT. If they could figure out scheduling Iowa State and Kansas would hop aboard. Fallback may be Louisville as there is political pressure from McConnell on Oklahoma teams.

various other rumors from twitter:

GT may well be set for B1G. Penn St may be out as they are poised to lose football for a period of time. B1G also approached UVA apparently. UVA, Ga Tech put them in a nice spot. ATL is a great tv market and both schools are good academically and athletically without scaring the midwest powers.

ND could still do B1G, ACC or Big12. OR as usual play games with all the heavy hitter conferences but remain solo. Both Doss of Texas and Swoff. of ACC think ND is heading their way. We'll all see I guess.

If Big 12 went 12 tomorrow it would be FSU/Louisville. They have the votes for FSU but have been waiting on ND. The waiting game has ticked off Clemson. And lots of mended fences would need to occur. Miami would jump into Big 12 but their constant NCAA trouble and small private school status makes them a no go for now.

Va Tech and UNC to the SEC still makes the most sense. New TV markets and great overall institutions.

Virginia and GaTech to B1G.

Leaves Big 12 staring at Clemson again. NC State, Louisville, FSU all strongly in play. Cincy, Miami, BYU, GaTech all outliers who could be brought it if numbers were needed.

FSU: Most believe they'll still be in by 2014. Bottom line is money is too good to refuse and while they don't hate the ACC they really prefer not to be a basketball conference because it isn't a money maker for them like it is for Duke, UNC, Pitt, Syracuse.

 

[DFWJC]

Clock is ticking :laugh1:

FSU or Clemson has to agree this summer (before this season stars, of course)or A.C.C. banner for jt.

You seem so sure that the ACC is going to be completely gutted, as you just mentioned about half it's members leaving.
Crazy, bro, crazy

 

[jobberone]

My rumor sources have FSU wanting out of the ACC badly. I mean badly. They will jump at decent offer with SEC first then B12 second. SEC ain't happening so.....

Clemson also wants out of the ACC although not quite as badly. They still want out in a major way and their first choice is the SEC although same as applies to FSU. That ain't happening. I don't hear all this mending fences stuff. Clemson goes or stays via the Board not the AD, coach, or President. They do not matter at all although they get respectful listening from the Board. There are still two older members on the Board who are some trouble for the younger turks but they can't stop it. It doesn't appear it will happen per rumor but I think it will if ND gets out of the way.

 

[DFWJC]

My rumor sources have FSU wanting out of the ACC badly. I mean badly. They will jump at decent offer with SEC first then B12 second. SEC ain't happening so.....

Clemson also wants out of the ACC although not quite as badly. They still want out in a major way and their first choice is the SEC although same as applies to FSU. That ain't happening. I don't hear all this mending fences stuff. Clemson goes or stays via the Board not the AD, coach, or President. They do not matter at all although they get respectful listening from the Board. There are still two older members on the Board who are some trouble for the younger turks but they can't stop it. It doesn't appear it will happen per rumor but I think it will if ND gets out of the way.

As I've been saying all along....My "rumor sources" say otherwise.
There is a loud contingent that does feel the way you say but they are a vocal minority vastly outnumbered.
Squeeky wheel thing.

SEC? yes
Big 12? hell no

FSU should have taken the SEC offer years ago. It would have been a decent fit. Florida didn't want them in right before FSU went to the ACC long ago, but they were completely overruled. Bowden actually wanted the ACC over the SEC b/c he saw a chance to dominate. The FSU president wanted the ACC b/c is was vastly superior in other areas...especially academics.

I guess it did get them them 2 national titles--they may not have gotten them if they were in the SEC.
But now I think you are correct in that they would prefer the SEC.
Big 12...that is a whole differtn story an many levels.

Clemson is harder to read. I'm not sure SEC is an option at all for them. The SEC would before representation from a new (and fairly large) state in North Carolina or maybe Virginia, though they are in no need or rush at all to expand.
Clemson in the Big 12 would seem really odd, but never say never I guess.

 

[jobberone]

As I've been saying all along....My "rumor sources" say otherwise.
There is a loud contingent that does feel the way you say but they are a vocal minority vastly outnumbered.
Squeeky wheel thing.

SEC? yes
Big 12? hell no

FSU should have taken the SEC offer years ago. It would have been a decent fit. Florida didn't want them in right before FSU went to the ACC long ago, but they were completely overruled. Bowden actually wanted the ACC over the SEC b/c he saw a chance to dominate. The FSU president wanted the ACC b/c is was vastly superior in other areas...especially academics.

I guess it did get them them 2 national titles--they may not have gotten them if they were in the SEC.
But now I think you are correct in that they would prefer the SEC.
Big 12...that is a whole differtn story an many levels.

Clemson is harder to read. I'm not sure SEC is an option at all for them. The SEC would before representation from a new (and fairly large) state in North Carolina or maybe Virginia, though they are in no need or rush at all to expand.
Clemson in the Big 12 would seem really odd, but never say never I guess.

Neither one is getting in the SEC. Clemson esp because FL, SC, and GA have agreed to exclude them and will vote together. They don't need it right now as there isn't a push to go after either or both.

I don't know much about the B12 side of things just a little of what's going on over here. Most think it's dead but I still think there could be movement depending on ND.

 

[jterrell]

Neither one is getting in the SEC. Clemson esp because FL, SC, and GA have agreed to exclude them and will vote together. They don't need it right now as there isn't a push to go after either or both.

I don't know much about the B12 side of things just a little of what's going on over here. Most think it's dead but I still think there could be movement depending on ND.

Every major columnist or reporter I follow on twitter including plenty from Clemson and FSU believe expansion is happening for those schools. Clemson talks B10, Big 12 and SEC but they are talking leaving the ACC non-stop.

Swofford was the first major AD in history to attend a school's BOT meeting. Why did he do that? I mean was he just there for fun or did Clemson have a lot of questions for him? Sources leaked right away that he promised ND. If he had to promise ND to calm down Clemson what does that tell folks?

FSU is going to take the largest pile of money. They have no real choice. They are being bled to death right now. They can not compete with the facilities and faculties at SEC schools which is who they battle for recruits.


The only hold up is ND. After that is all about the Big 12 shuffling and the politics of appeasing everyone's scheduling desires as best possible.

This is all very simple. Big money takes little money. Every time.

The ACC is the new Big East.

 

[jterrell]

btw, latest bomb to drop is uva may well be headed to big 10 to replace psu.

psu will get severe penalties tomorrow and apparently uva, nd, rutgers all approached by Big 10. uva seen as most likely to go.

my own conjecture: if that happens va tech almost assuredly goes somewhere forcing sec to take them or lose them to big 12.

 

[jterrell]

http://dudeofwv.blogspot.com/2012/07/big-12-set-to-expand-in-2014.html

Big 12 Set to Expand in 2014

Anonymous sources at WVU and the Big 12 conference have confirmed that the Big 12 plans to expand from 10 to 12 institutions to coincide with the playoff system going into effect in 2014.

Big 12 officials notified several potential candidates via backchannels who had expressed interest earlier in the summer. Those notified include FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Maryland and Miami form the ACC and Louisville from the Big East.

According to sources the Big 12 was able to overcome internal resistance to expansion because the lack of a conference championship game was beginning to bog down the finalization of the agreement between the Big 12 and SEC to meet in a new "Champions Bowl" starting after the 2014 season.

Several Big 12 members had opposed expansion because of questions about divisional alignment, increased travel costs, and scheduling.

Others opposed expansion because they perceived they would have an easier path to the playoffs without having to play in a conference championship game.

The SEC saw it the same way. The lack of a Big 12 conference championship game became a sticking point in the contract because the SEC understood it gave the Big 12 an unfair competitive advantage.

Whatever objections Big 12 members had to expansion were dropped once it was clear a conference championship game was unavoidable.

While there have been no official talks between Florida State University and the Big 12, both have expressed strong mutual interest and it is understood that FSU now has an open invitation to become the 11th member of the Big 12 conference.

Florida State's decision to leave the ACC for the Big 12 will be based on a thorough review of the financial projections provided by the Big 12 detailing estimated revenues from the TV contract, estimates of earnings from a conference championship game, estimates of revenues from the Champions Bowl, and their own internal assessment as to their earnings potential in the Big 12 versus the ACC.

 

[DFWJC]

btw, latest bomb to drop is uva may well be headed to big 10 to replace psu.

psu will get severe penalties tomorrow and apparently uva, nd, rutgers all approached by Big 10. uva seen as most likely to go.
.

UVa would only be interested in going to a conference that has good sports and academics (like the ACC), so the Big 10 makes plenty of sense.