Straight talk about Greg Ellis

[ABQCOWBOY]

Ahh again with the merry-go-round.

This is like arguing with a woman.

Basic logic goes like this:

1. I do not care how you "feel". Not in a rude or callous way but in a way that says it has no meaning for me because I can't define it.
2. Greg Ellis can be compared to his peers in draft selection and position not your "feelings". Unless you are debating yourself use a scale we can all read.
3. Grown men should use logic not their "feelings" to arrive at a conclusion.

Nothing any of the anti-Ellis contingent has said means anything except the one oft-repeated comment from superpunk that Ellis has sucked at the end of seasons. At least that's an attempt to draw on a football actuality. The rest of it is hogwash.

To sum up the anti-Ellis argument:
He sucks and should be cut because 8 sacks per season isn't enough. We should have drafted a guy who dominates games in the 8th spot even if that player wasn't in that draft class because well I expect that player to dominate regardless. I wanted him to be a star and get 12 sacks a season, he didn't so he sucks. The scheme can be blamed for every other player's lack of sacks but Greg Ellis is immune because he should have gotten 12 sacks regardless of scheme. The 8th pick in the draft should be able to get 12 sacks a season and beat double teams and win Super Bowls. He was also a team captain with Quincy here and let him use drugs. Its all his fault Quincy is suspended from the Arena League 2. One person stood up and argued against Parcells without any jersey throwing, but Ellis, only did so in whines. The manly thing to do is complain about him after he is gone. Ellis cries too much so I am going to re-double his efforts with twice as many cries for him to be cut even though it is likely he will provide the most production per dollar of any Cowboys Player. We should pay Witten, Roy Williams, Terence Newman all 200 mil bonuses but tossing Greg Ellis 3 million is a waste of cash. We were a highly ranked defense with Ellis and a poorly ranked one without but thats because all the guys forgot how to play football at the end of the year.

Damned frustrating, is it not?

 

[jterrell]

Hey!!! I'm on your side.

How about saying, "arguing with a child."

My apologies

But it reminded me of arguing with my wife. I make a logical and valid point and she cries and hands me a pillow for the couch... lol.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Ahh again with the merry-go-round.

This is like arguing with a woman.

Basic logic goes like this:

1. I do not care how you "feel". Not in a rude or callous way but in a way that says it has no meaning for me because I can't define it.
2. Greg Ellis can be compared to his peers in draft selection and position not your "feelings". Unless you are debating yourself use a scale we can all read.
3. Grown men should use logic not their "feelings" to arrive at a conclusion.

Nothing any of the anti-Ellis contingent has said means anything except the one oft-repeated comment from superpunk that Ellis has sucked at the end of seasons. At least that's an attempt to draw on a football actuality. The rest of it is hogwash.

To sum up the anti-Ellis argument:
He sucks and should be cut because 8 sacks per season isn't enough. We should have drafted a guy who dominates games in the 8th spot even if that player wasn't in that draft class because well I expect that player to dominate regardless. I wanted him to be a star and get 12 sacks a season, he didn't so he sucks. The scheme can be blamed for every other player's lack of sacks but Greg Ellis is immune because he should have gotten 12 sacks regardless of scheme. The 8th pick in the draft should be able to get 12 sacks a season and beat double teams and win Super Bowls. He was also a team captain with Quincy here and let him use drugs. Its all his fault Quincy is suspended from the Arena League 2. One person stood up and argued against Parcells without any jersey throwing, but Ellis, only did so in whines. The manly thing to do is complain about him after he is gone. Ellis cries too much so I am going to re-double his efforts with twice as many cries for him to be cut even though it is likely he will provide the most production per dollar of any Cowboys Player. We should pay Witten, Roy Williams, Terence Newman all 200 mil bonuses but tossing Greg Ellis 3 million is a waste of cash. We were a highly ranked defense with Ellis and a poorly ranked one without but thats because all the guys forgot how to play football at the end of the year.

The simplistic "Ellis is good because . . . because he has led the team in sacks. He shows up" yada-yada-bada-bada.

If you do not agree. Cool.
Tell you what. Let's see how it plays out. See how long it takes for Wade to tell Ellis to sit and like it. See how long before St. Ellis starts whining. See how long the pout lasts.

Then we shall know.

Satan has you, all right. You are probably an Eagles fan!

GET OFF THE CROSS YOU ELLIS WORSHIPPERS.
WE NEED THE WOOD!

Chump dont want no help, chump dont get noo help.

 

[YosemiteSam]

My apologies

But it reminded me of arguing with my wife. I make a logical and valid point and she cries and hands me a pillow for the couch... lol.

I never get the couch when arguing with my wife. I don't care, I just go to the room and lay down no matter where she is or if she wants me there. Of course I do officially get the "butt end of the deal", but I actually don't mind that so much.

 

[DLCassidy]

I have never been satisfied with Roy or Ellis. Some people have low expectations, I guess.

Jterrel: you still don't get it. A top 10 pick SHOULD dominate at least some games and be a game changer. That is what those picks SHOULD do. the fact that many fail to do so means NOTHING. Your argument means NOTHING.
If you have low expectations of a #8 pick that is your problem.

What a dumb post. Why is it Greg Ellis' or any other players fault if YOUR view of what a top ten pick should do is unrealistic? It makes no sense. It's like a guy who once a month hits a five iron on the screws and it goes 190 yards. But the rest of the time it's more like 170. But what club does he hit every time he's 190 yards out? And why is he steaming when he's 20 yards short most of the time? Same logic.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

What a dumb post. Why is it Greg Ellis' or any other players fault if YOUR view of what a top ten pick should do is unrealistic? It makes no sense. It's like a guy who once a month hits a five iron on the screws and it goes 190 yards. But the rest of the time it's more like 170. But what club does he hit every time he's 190 yards out? And why is he steaming when he's 20 yards short most of the time? Same logic.

A retort from Farmers Branch, home of the brave land of the keen.

No one said Ellis was at fault.
But, AGAIN, there is an expectation that a top 10 pick will produce big time (not only show up to play, dude.)
Quit using your putter when you should be using an iron. You'll make more sense that way.
By the way, your post is not dumb (though you carelessly threw that out against another poster) Just golfesque lame.
I will ask the Zone head honchos to install a Golf Zone just for you Hoppy.

 

[lockster]

Say what you want, but Ellis has been a very solid player for us. Unfortunately, the achilles injury and the broken leg hurt him a couple of times, but 8 sacks is a good total in my opinion with the amount of playing time he had and the way our defense was run. These aren't lawrence taylor numbers, but Taylor couldn't stuff the run as well as Ellis. Also, leadership is as much or more about doing what you should do rather than just talking a good game.
Remember, there are those that talk, and those that do!!! Ellis is a doer. Talk is cheap. I don't like his whining either, but he is a player! This guy has been a great player for us, so I don't think we should be bad mouthing him like some of our cowboy players have been bad mouthing Parcells. Think what it means to all the other players when they see him working his butt off in the weight room and studying film like he should, and having to come back from his second major surgery. He has had to do that twice now. No easy feat!! Both of those injuries could have left him a cripple if he hadn't been commited to coming back. I have total respect for that aspect of him.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

But, AGAIN, there is an expectation that a top 10 pick will produce big time (not only show up to play, dude.)

So, what constitutes really playing and just showing up to play?

 

[Jarv]

The simplistic "Ellis is good because . . . because he has led the team in sacks. He shows up" yada-yada-bada-bada.

If you do not agree. Cool.
Tell you what. Let's see how it plays out. See how long it takes for Wade to tell Ellis to sit and like it. See how long before St. Ellis starts whining. See how long the pout lasts.

Then we shall know.

Satan has you, all right. You are probably an Eagles fan!

GET OFF THE CROSS YOU ELLIS WORSHIPPERS.
WE NEED THE WOOD!

Chump dont want no help, chump dont get noo help.

A little early to start drinking, eh hoser.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

A little early to start drinking, eh hoser.

But aside from banalities or attempts at humidor, i fail to see you advancing the notion that Ellis is great and we need some over-the-hill guy who is disgruntled, insecure and sniping at the way things are run at the Ranch.

But, as always, your response is valued.

 

[Ben_n_austin]

Ellis was still a better overall pass rusher than Ware when he went down. I don't know if it would have remained that way, but it was the truth.

Agreed. He's a staple, and we need him more than people think.

 

[Ben_n_austin]

Exactly. This "not living up to pick x" talk is completely absurd.

Ellis was drafted almost a decade ago and he's now on a very cheap contract. Where he was drafted means less than zero at this point.

Funny, when Anthony Henry gets burned I don't see people saying, "Oh well, that's okay, he was only a fourth round pick."

Exactly--and by this logic, we should pay Romo about 500K a year.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Exactly--and by this logic, we should pay Romo about 500K a year.

Let's not compare GE to Romo's situation. Or to Ware's. Or, for that matter, to Spencer's.

There is a huge age/talent divide there.

So let's not.

 

[Jarv]

But aside from banalities or attempts at humidor, i fail to see you advancing the notion that Ellis is great and we need some over-the-hill guy who is disgruntled, insecure and sniping at the way things are run at the Ranch.

But, as always, your response is valued.

Say what ?? I don't even smoke cigars.

Well, you know what they say about opinions and a certain part of the anatomy...Greg is better than you opinion of him. Or something like that.

 

[jobberone]

Ellis is very important for this team. But if I were the owner why would I want to pay him more? People on both sides are trying to get theirs. Ellis will have to prove he's very valuable now and in the future to get more. If his agent/attorneys are paying attention properly.

 

[DLCassidy]

A retort from Farmers Branch, home of the brave land of the keen.

No one said Ellis was at fault.
But, AGAIN, there is an expectation that a top 10 pick will produce big time (not only show up to play, dude.)
Quit using your putter when you should be using an iron. You'll make more sense that way.
By the way, your post is not dumb (though you carelessly threw that out against another poster) Just golfesque lame.
I will ask the Zone head honchos to install a Golf Zone just for you Hoppy.

But that is a false expectation based on actual results of the draft, that's the point.

 

[Billy Bullocks]

Sorry- he has never lived up to being the #8 pick. A top 10 Pick should have at least a few pro bowls on his resume. ellis has never been close. A top 10 pick should be one of the league leaders- Ellis has never been close. A top 10 pick should be a real game changer- Ellis has never been close. He has been good and solid and no more. Longevity is not everything- Vinny anyone?

I agree with that assesment. EXCEPT, many top 10 players turn into Top 10 busts, whereas you can't say that from Ellis. Ellis was a reliable starter on this team since he was drafted. I also trully believe that the leg injury he had early in his career might have stopped him from reaching his full potential.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Agreed. He's a staple, and we need him more than people think.

Ellis was, Ellis was. That is the frustrating thing about Ellis.

He's not getting any younger or cheaper and youth goes crying for playing time.

Hope Wade starts his rebuilding job soon.

Harumph!

 

[ScipioCowboy]

It's all about what Ellis has done for this team. Not what happened somewhere else for someone else.

I don't think anyone is justifying or excusing Ellis' behavior based on "what happened somewhere else for someone else." By discussing other defensive ends picked in the top 10, certain posters are merely trying to provide a baseline against which Ellis' achievement can be measured, and baselines are a valid part of any logical analysis.

In my opinion, Ellis was never going to be a dominant pass rusher; it's simply not his game. He's more Tony Tolbert than Charles Haley, but that fact shouldn't diminish Ellis' contributions.

Furthermore, we should remember that Ellis is one of only two established pass rushers on the roster; therefore, trading him seems a little foolhardy.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

I don't think anyone is justifying or excusing Ellis' behavior based on "what happened somewhere else for someone else." By discussing other defensive ends picked in the top 10, certain posters are merely trying to provide a baseline against which Ellis' achievement can be measured, and baselines are a valid part of any logical analysis.

In my opinion, Ellis was never going to be a dominant pass rusher; it's simply not his game. He's more Tony Tolbert than Charles Haley, but that fact shouldn't diminish Ellis' contributions.

Furthermore, we should remember that Ellis is one of only two established pass rushers on the roster; therefore, trading him seems a little foolhardy.

Agreed. he was never a dominant player.
And while i don't necessarily agree getting rid of him is the only recourse, I do think we need to give younger players their chance and playing time. And you know as well as I do that this will not go down well with Ellis.
If he's truly a leader, he will not pout.
But we shall see....