We dont use Owens the right way

[Doomsday101]

Ok... you are talking about final scores. I am talking about attacking and TAKING the win when opp is there.

Titans and Cowboys were 10-10 at the half
Texans and Cowboys - we were losing 6-3 at the half
Carolina and Cowboys - we were losing 14-10 at the half

Tell me you understand my point instead of your spin?

I understand that we beat these team by a large margin and I understand that halftime scores mean nothing see they play 4 qrts in football not 2 we ended up putting these teams away pretty early in the 2nd half so don't sit there and tell me about almost loses that is joke. In the end Dallas is using TO based on the offense we run and Dallas should not change that for 1 person at the expense of other very good players. See I don't think TO is all that I think he is doing a good job but he sure as hell is not the second coming of Irvin

 

[khiladi]

We do that all the time. We do it with Glenn too. Even Crayton.

I do not see it with any of them... Our quick passes are usually across the field to the sideline... We throw a lot to our receivers in the flat... We added another dimension of this by bringing Glenn in motion and running a quick pass to him as he ran to the outside...

Crayton runs a lot of intermediate routes, not a lot of slants...

I see TO making the majority of his grabs at the side-line... he catches a lot of first down passes... Many of the passes thrown his way behind 10 yards are at the sidelines as well... the passes where he is suppose to break open are usually passes in the flat... it is more difficult to break a tackle when you have only one side to operate, with the other being out of bounds...

We also run him down the field a lot. And yes, sometimes it is to clear out space for other options. But he also gets thrown to when he is wide open a lot in that situation, like the bomb he dropped against Washington and the one he caught against Tampa

.

I am not disputing that... I stated he gets thrown to deep one or two times a game... many times he gets thrown to deep, he is blanketed by the corner and a receiver as well... the game plan is adjusted accordingly for this... yet, we don't change it up... we keep running him deep...

This isn't a WCO team, we are a downfield offense off play action, so you are not going to see it every other play. But we have been doing this at least a couple of times a game with TO, especially since Romo took over, until yesterday.

I never said we should use him like a WCO team.. the problem is we are using him like we were using Keyshawn... as a possession receiver...

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I understand that we beat these team by a large margin and I understand that halftime scores mean nothing see they play 4 qrts in football not 2 we ended up putting these teams away pretty early in the 2nd half so don't sit there and tell me about almost loses that is joke. In the end Dallas is using TO based on the offense we run and Dallas should not change that for 1 person at the expense of other very good players. See I don't think TO is all that I think he is doing a good job but he sure as hell is not the second coming of Irvin

not true. we didnt put Carolina away until the 4th qtr and that was after a few dodged bullets earlier in game ( key drop etc )....

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

See I don't think TO is all that I think he is doing a good job but he sure as hell is not the second coming of Irvin

Now I understand you. Completely.

 

[Doomsday101]

not true. we didnt put Carolina away until the 4th qtr and that was after a few dodged bullets earlier in game ( key drop etc )....

You are correct on the Carolina game, thanks for the correction.

 

[Doomsday101]

Now I understand you. Completely.

I doubt that. Owen has 35 catches in the 1st half of games and has 37 catches in the second half. Dallas offense is putting up points and rankes as one of the top teams in the NFL in points scored. I'm sorry that is not good enough for you and your concern is more about TO getting the ball at the expense of other quality players on this team.

 

[wileedog]

I do not see it with any of them... Our quick passes are usually across the field to the sideline... We throw a lot to our receivers in the flat... We added another dimension of this by bringing Glenn in motion and running a quick pass to him as he ran to the outside...

Crayton runs a lot of intermediate routes, not a lot of slants...

I see TO making the majority of his grabs at the side-line... he catches a lot of first down passes... Many of the passes thrown his way behind 10 yards are at the sidelines as well... the passes where he is suppose to break open are usually passes in the falt...

I just flat out disagree. We run this play a lot to TO, as well as a lot of WR screens. I think we did it 3 or 4 times the last Giant game.
.

I am not disputing that... I stated he gets thrown to deep one or two times a game... many times he gets thrown to deep, he is blanketed by the corner and a receiver as well... the game plan is adjusted accordingly for this... yet, we don't change it up... we keep running him deep...

He's a deep threat. Like I said, we run a lot of the short slants and screens to him design for him to make plays after the catch. What better thing to do when the db start creeping up on him to stop those then to run him long a couple of times? Its generally worked too.

TO is a deep threat and should be utilized as such a couple of times a game, period. Its what helps free up those slants and screens.

I never said we should use him like a WCO team.. the problem is we are using him like we were using Keyshawn... as a possession receiver...

That's pretty funny. Probably 60-70% of the routes Keyshawn ran here were slants.

First you complain that we are running him deep too much, then we are using him like a possession reciever - i.e. short slants. I don't remember too many Keyshawn fly routes.

Do you even keep track of what your complaining about?

 

[Rampage]

T.O. is a little baby! i hope he's not here next year

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I doubt that. Owen has 35 catches in the 1st half of games and has 37 catches in the second half. Dallas offense is putting up points and rankes as one of the top teams in the NFL in points scored. I'm sorry that is not good enough for you and your concern is more about TO getting the ball at the expense of other quality players on this team.

You are pointing out stats... meaningless..... aske Marino and company... I am talking about playmaking and high percentage plays. We lack that.

NO imagination on our part.

T.O. is a little baby! i hope he's not here next year

Stay focused. THIS YEAR is not over.

 

[Chuck 54]

I'm all for anything that works, but you aren't supposed to have to create ways to get the ball to your superstar WR who's making over 10 million dollars when he's facing man to man coverage from a questionable CB with a broken thumb !

Maybe we expect him to actually run hard and beat the little cb on his routes.

 

[locked&loaded]

Here's a novel idea



How about TO working to get open? His ego is so fragile that if he doesn't get the ball every down he goes in to a shell. Terry Glenn worked his butt off and got the ball thrown to him.

he is open. even if its tight coverage you have to give him a chance. he can use his strength and body size.

 

[khiladi]

He's on pace for about 200 passes thrown his way, too. Wow. His bomb year in Philly, in 04, he was only thrown at 127 times.

edit - not 200, i screwed up. About 160

He played 14 games in 2004... you have two more games, he would be at 150+... he would be right at the mark of 160.... he also has 72 catches this year, as opposed to 77 with Philly in those 14 games... so he is on pace to match the number of receptions... this means, he is catching just as much thrown his way...

the real difference is he had 5 more touchdowns with Philly than he has now.... he also had more yards, 230 with one more game played than now...

he has 3 more first downs this year as opposed to last year, after 3 games.. he is sustaining more drives in Dallas than he was with his signature year in Philly...

like I said, POSSESSION receiver...

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

he is open. even if its tight coverage you have to give him a chance. he can use his strength and body size.

He told Drew... "just give me a chance... put the ball in the air and I will fight for it"... Drew did and TO caught it for a TD... then he locked back onto Glenn.

 

[vta]

You are pointing out stats... meaningless..... aske Marino and company... I am talking about playmaking and high percentage plays. We lack that.

Then there you have it. TO's the problem, not the scheme. If the stats show he's getting the ball, then your point is moot and the stats are not meaningless.

He's getting ball thrown his way, when he's not dropping them, he's doing the best he can,which obivously isn't good enough even for you. Is it up to Romo to make Owens a playmaker? Witten? Parcell's? Who if not Owens?

You can't blame anyone but him for lack of production... which really isn't the case. He's productive, just not explosive.

 

[khiladi]

I just flat out disagree. We run this play a lot to TO, as well as a lot of WR screens. I think we did it 3 or 4 times the last Giant game..

What I said is that the majority of our passing plays are to the sidelines.. They are attacking the SIDELINES, where there is not much room to break open tackles, because you have only ONE SIDE to work....

This does not mean I don't think TO should go deep... I am complaining about him being a diversionary tactic on deep routes... He is being forced out of a play for no reason, and many of the passes thrown his way are actually forced... the TD pass he caught yesterday was a clear example of this forced issue...

He's a deep threat. Like I said, we run a lot of the short slants and screens to him design for him to make plays after the catch. What better thing to do when the db start creeping up on him to stop those then to run him long a couple of times? Its generally worked too.

He is a deep threat as well as a threat to run free in the open field... He played in a WCO prior to coming in Dallas, meaning he was used on a number of quick passes over the middle...

when your running a WR screen, the only chance you have to break a tackle is ONE WAY... The CB just has to force you to the outside... Running a slant over the middle, you have open space... The WR screen has not been that effective for us... It also is incredibly dangerous considering the amount of time the ball takes to get their... if the CB gets a read on it, that is an easy TD... even if the CB breaks a little bit late, he's already going after the receiver... the time the ball takes to get there is still significant...

TO is a deep threat and should be utilized as such a couple of times a game, period. Its what helps free up those slants and screens.

Who denied that he should be used as a deep threat?

That's pretty funny. Probably 60-70% of the routes Keyshawn ran here were slants.

First you complain that we are running him deep too much, then we are using him like a possession reciever - i.e. short slants. I don't remember too many Keyshawn fly routes.

I said we are using him like Keyshawn in that we are using him as a possession receiver... You can catch a first down in a number of ways... the majority of TOs first downs are passes to the SIDELINES...

KeySLOW running a slant BTW is not TO running a slant...

What I complained about is that he is being used as a diversionary tactic on long plays... he is being run out of plays because he is going deep way too much...

 

[superpunk]

Breaking news.....

TO has just been traded to a team that can use him to the fullest.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Then there you have it. TO's the problem, not the scheme. If the stats show he's getting the ball, then your point is moot and the stats are not meaningless.

He's getting ball thrown his way, when he's not dropping them, he's doing the best he can,which obivously isn't good enough even for you. Is it up to Romo to make Owens a playmaker? Witten? Parcell's? Who if not Owens?

You can't blame anyone but him for lack of production... which really isn't the case. He's productive, just not explosive.

Not quite.

The scheme is exactly what I talking about. Couple that with the fact that teams gameplan EXTRA to ensure that not only does America's Team NOT beat them... they gameplan to ensure that TO has limited success. You cannot deny that. Westbrook spoke about it. I am sure other teams take a similar approach.

In a game of matchups. TO needs the best matchups. Whether its against certain defenders or "types" of plays... Haley has to go

 

[Kaika]

"I don't feel wanted , so sometimes when I'm out there I just go thru the motions"

Enough said for me.

 

[khiladi]

"I don't feel wanted , so sometimes when I'm out there I just go thru the motions"

Enough said for me.

Of course we can spin this however we want... it could just mean that when he is running a deep play just to act as a decoy, his heart isn't into it, because he knows he can do more...

and people are fooling themselves when they think that most receivers don't feel the same way...

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Of course we can spin this however we want... it could just mean that when he is running a deep play just to act as a decoy, his heart isn't into it, because he knows he can do more...

and people are fooling themselves when they think that most receivers don't feel the same way...

No... dont you know that EVERYONE, EVERY DAY gives 100%.... duh....(sarcasm)

The Anti-TO'ers just love this stuff... anything but TO....