What Is Wrong in Dallas WON'T get fixed

[boyzjunkie]

Anyone know the NFL team with the highest payroll?
Oakland.

Anyone know the team with the second highest payroll?

Right.

 

[Rampage]

Anyone know the NFL team with the highest payroll?
Oakland.

Anyone know the team with the second highest payroll?

Right.

who is it?

 

[rcaldw]

I don't like everything about Jerry Jones, but I do like some things.



Seriously, you are still bringing that up? WP, Newman and Campo have all said it was nothing. Things like that happen on NFL sidelines, ... and frankly I'm glad that they do happen, and I'm glad that they are viewed as "no big deal."



I have heard it said the Jones hears the coaches saying things like, "Ogletree needs some touches" and "Felix needs more carries" and then he goes in an interview saing he wants to see these things. That makes more sense as to what really happens than to think he tells coaches what to do or who to play.



First it was not a shutout, and secondly if you win the game when you have a 7 point performance, how can you chastise the owner for the offensive woes without praising him for the defensive dominance? We did win a game when only scoring 7 pts, you can't do that without a dominant defense.



Just stick to doing that.

(Sit down and make a list of 5 things that you think Jones has done well, and then hang your hat on those.)

Take the good with the bad and the wins with the losses, you can't control anything else anyways.

First off WV, I do appreciate the spirit in which you disagree with me. At least you aren't calling me an idiot and telling me to find another team. Appreciated.

I do, however, disagree with you. I'll follow your order:

first - I would suggest you DON'T have players pushing coaches on the sideline regularly. In fact, I dare you to give me 3 instances you can remember in the last TEN YEARS. Ok, give me 2. In fact, I'm not saying it can't be done, but outside of this one I'm going to bet you have a hard time remembering another. As much as they want to downplay this, it ISN'T a regular occurrence in the NFL. I've seen players yell at coaches, but I have a hard time remembering physical contact like that.

second - I can't say what Jones hears and then repeats. Maybe it is as you suspect it is. But here is something to bear in mind. At halftime of the Cowboys - Commanders game it was JIMMY JOHNSON mocking the fact that Felix got the ball in the first half, and the whole halftime crew noted that it was a shot at Jerry Jones. When fans notice Jerry doing it, WE ARE NOT ALONE. The former head coach of the Dallas Cowboys noticed it too, and apparently didn't approve of it either.

third - you are correct that we were not shutout the game before, it just FELT like it. I forgot about the late score in that one. You are correct. So I'll amend my statement to "when a 7 point performance is followed by another 7 point performance."

finally - everyone handles the things they can't change differently. I know it may seem, given this thread, that I am MISERABLE as a Cowboys fan with my personal perspective of the way Jones has chosen to run his team. I'm not. Just frustrated with what I view to be a pattern that emerges again and again because of his massive ego. I watched Sunday, posted this thread, and then hit the mental reset button. Come Thursday I'll watch us beat Oakland, be happy about it, and then settle in to see what happens in December.

I HOPE FOR GOOD THINGS THIS SEASON. (Playoff Success that represents REAL PROGRESS for this football team) If it happens, I still won't be convinced that "Jerry's way" (weak head coach, divided authority without a clear head on the coaching staff, and an owner who is the "sun" around which all things orbit) is the way to go. BUT I WILL GIVE JERRY HIS CREDIT IF THAT HAPPENS. Because he will have proven that it can be done, no matter how aggravating it is to people like me. In other words, I don't think I'm wrong (or I wouldn't hold the opinion), but I would be glad to be because I'm a Cowboys fan.

 

[rcaldw]

This team is about Jerry's ego, of course he want desperately to win, but not at the risk of him not getting the biggest part of the credit or the biggest piece of the limelight. That simple.

This is the one reason why every time I want to type, "I'm glad Jerry wants to win", I just can't do it. Because, while I do believe Jerry wants to win, I also believe that unless he is absolutely forced, by losing, to go a different direction, the only way he wants to win is with HIM involved up to his chin in football matters.

To me, if your CHIEF interest is in winning, then you get the absolutely most qualified person for each position in your organization. Jerry doesn't make decisions that way. Either that or he actually dares to imagine that HE is the most qualified person for just about everything under the sun.

Do you really believe that if Jerry lost all of his money and no longer owned the Cowboys that even 1 NFL team would hire him as their GM?

I don't. But even if YOU would answer that question yes, I have another question. Do you think he would represent the very best GM available? I think we can all answer that no. So why is he the GM for the Cowboys? Because he ENJOYS IT.

Nothing wrong with that. He has the right, he bought the team. But don't tell me that his #1 goal is winning, then. It isn't. His #1 goal is winning with him at the center of the winning.

 

[DeaconBlues]

Of course Jerry is the root of the whole problem. Anyone who denies it is just being a blind Cowboy homer.

I love Jerry at times, and I know he wants to win and his heart is in the right place but he needs to take a page out of George Steinbrenner's book and take a couple of years away like Steinbrenner was forced to do in the early
90's and let a true, professional football GM retool his organization and get the right coaching staff in place and then he can come back and enjoy a championship team as Steinbrenner did in '95.

Using GS is the worst example you could make. Even when he hired a professional GM, he was constantly and publicly denouncing the team when it was not performing up to expectations, and always making suggestions. Every personnel decision went through him.

You might as well as cite the 02 -03 Superbowl Raiders as an example of a stable and well ran organization.

 

[DeaconBlues]

This is the one reason why every time I want to type, "I'm glad Jerry wants to win", I just can't do it. Because, while I do believe Jerry wants to win, I also believe that unless he is absolutely forced, by losing, to go a different direction, the only way he wants to win is with HIM involved up to his chin in football matters.

To me, if your CHIEF interest is in winning, then you get the absolutely most qualified person for each position in your organization. Jerry doesn't make decisions that way. Either that or he actually dares to imagine that HE is the most qualified person for just about everything under the sun.

Do you really believe that if Jerry lost all of his money and no longer owned the Cowboys that even 1 NFL team would hire him as their GM?

I don't. But even if YOU would answer that question yes, I have another question. Do you think he would represent the very best GM available? I think we can all answer that no. So why is he the GM for the Cowboys? Because he ENJOYS IT.

Nothing wrong with that. He has the right, he bought the team. But don't tell me that his #1 goal is winning, then. It isn't. His #1 goal is winning with him at the center of the winning.

Rubbish. You are arguing the same point that you make against Jones. You don't care if the Cowboys win, as long as they win in the manner you agree with. Its the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[rcaldw]

Rubbish. You are arguing the same point that you make against Jones. You don't care if the Cowboys win, as long as they win in the manner you agree with. Its the pot calling the kettle black.

Ridiculous. I'm making the point that Jerry's way (everything down to the socks and jocks), doesn't, as a pattern, work.

If you can give me a bunch of examples of it producing Super Bowl winners go ahead. For every example you can give me (basically the Raiders), I can give you just about everything else.

 

[DeaconBlues]

Ridiculous. I'm making the point that Jerry's way (everything down to the socks and jocks), doesn't, as a pattern, work.

If you can give me a bunch of examples of it producing Super Bowl winners go ahead. For every example you can give me (basically the Raiders), I can give you just about everything else.

"As a pattern???" Nice escape hatch. So basically, unless the majority of the teams win in "Jerry's pattern," you win. Doesn't matter if it has happened before, it hasn't happened enough.

Based on your logic, defense never wins Super Bowls (Baltimore).

Underdogs never win (NY Jets, NY Giants).

Leading rushers in the NFL never win (Emmitt Smith).

 

[rcaldw]

"As a pattern???" Nice escape hatch. So basically, unless the majority of the teams win in "Jerry's pattern," you win. Doesn't matter if it has happened before, it hasn't happened enough.

Based on your logic, defense never wins Super Bowls (Baltimore).

Underdogs never win (NY Jets, NY Giants).

Leading rushers in the NFL never win (Emmitt Smith).

I think you jumped a lane on that one. You are talking about statistical anomalies in the course of football, versus a philosophy about how to run a football team.

And the philosophy Jerry likes can only really be seen in one other guy, Al Davis. (And little Danny Snyder is a lot like it too..... he has done real well also)

The last time the Raiders won the Super Bowl was 1984 - 26 years ago. I would argue (and so have many others) that Davis has gotten worse in the last few years.

That team, with the motto "commitment to excellence" and "just win baby" is now the laughingstock of the NFL, only surpassed by the Browns and Lions of the world.

If you can win a Super Bowl every once in a while doing it the "maverick" way, but the year in and year out excellence of other organizations that have real GM's and real coaches can be demonstrated, which philosophy do you want to buy into?

 

[Ratmatt]

I am a big fan of the Cowboys.
I am a big fan of Jerry Jones.

Jerry Jones is the best owner in the NFL. Jerry is an excellent GM/player acquisition specialist. We have had excellent drafts the last couple of years. Good FA pickups.

If Jerry Jones bothers you so much, there are 31 other teams out there who would love to have you as a fan.

Like the Southwest commercial: you are free to fly to some other team.

I have to disagree with you there.Jerry isn't an excellent GM/player acquisition specialist.Let's take Jerry the GM.There isn't another team in the NFL that would hire Jerry as there GM/player personnel guy if he was available.As an owner,he is damm good at marketing this team,and at making money.There is no one better.That unfortunately isn't all an owner is about.4 out of the last 5 head coaches he has hired couldn't get a head coaching job in the NFL when he hired them.Also,a smart owner would have fired the GM along time ago.I believe Jerry wants to win,and has a strong passion to win,but I don't believe he will do anything to win.The smart move would be to hire a good football guy to run that side of it,and reap the benefits as an owner.His ego will never allow that.The worse thing that ever happened was that Parcells didn't have more success here.Now when people complain about hiring a football guy,Jerry can say,I did it that way with Parcells,and we didn't win a playoff game.

 

[Ratmatt]

And prior to that Wade purportedly suggested to Garrett to also use Ogletree on the bubble screens. Jerry I am sure reminds his coaches to use personnel and may even put his 2 cents in but Wade and or Garrett play who they want to play.

Please note that Ogletree wasn't in against the Commanders did Jerry or Wade tell Jason not to use Ogletree this week. I heard Jerry himself state that he would like to see more of Felix but that may not mean he is ordering his coaches to do so.

I think the coaches used Barber, Jones and to a lesser degree Choice because the Skins are susceptible to the run. In fact the Skins were expecting it. So did Zorn listen to Jerry? I think Jason Garrett is his own coach but will embrace suggestions when they make sense.

Let Wade or Garrett bench Roy Williams for awhile and see how fast Jerry gets him back into the starting lineup.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This is nice. People making stuff up and presenting it as fact as if they really have any clue as to what NFL FO people think and then the age old, 'the only consistent thing since we won a SB has been Jerry Jones' argument.

Its not even remotely the only consistent thing and correlation does not equal causation even then.

Jerry Jones is an easy target for people that have little to no imagination and even less access to be in a position to know.

I have one question though. Has the whole 'Jerry did nothing it was all Jimmy' stupidity enter the thread? I cannot bring myself to read the whole thing.

Oh and a final note: what GM doesn't meddle?

 

[Fletch]

Sorry, guys, and I'm sure many will vent their spleen here, but I've watched enough of it to be convinced.

We will all continue to cheer for our team, hope for the best, etc., but what is wrong with this team will not get fixed for a long time.

What is wrong is Jerry Jones, and he isn't going anywhere.

The play that captured it for me was the controversy over Campbell stepping out of bounds before the throw. The camera zooms in on the official, he has come over to the sideline to explain what is going on to the coaches.

There is Wade, there is Campo, and there is some other assistant that I don't recognize. All 3 standing in front of the official. Who is the official giving the explanation to and getting an earful from? The assistant standing behind Phillips.

This team has no real head coach. This team has no real leadership from its coaching staff.

You have Jerry taking a page from Bud Adams and Commander boy telling his offensive coordinator who needs to get the ball more. Felix.

Until Jerry Jones steps aside the Cowboys are what the Cowboys will be.

Organized around the wrong guy.... Jerry

How many times are we going to hear how Jerry is the sole reason why we won't do anything? I think this reasoning has run it's course.

So if we get beat by a better team, or a team that plays a little better than Dallas, you can continue to say, "I told you so?"

You got one thing right, I will continue to cheer for the Cowboys and hope we go all the way. Regardless of who is owner or GM, or the mascot, or... well, you get my drift.

Note: Sometimes the players have to be held accountable too.

 

[rcaldw]

This is nice. People making stuff up and presenting it as fact as if they really have any clue as to what NFL FO people think and then the age old, 'the only consistent thing since we won a SB has been Jerry Jones' argument.

Its not even remotely the only consistent thing and correlation does not equal causation even then.

Jerry Jones is an easy target for people that have little to no imagination and even less access to be in a position to know.

I have one question though. Has the whole 'Jerry did nothing it was all Jimmy' stupidity enter the thread? I cannot bring myself to read the whole thing.

Oh and a final note: what GM doesn't meddle?

Jerry is not a real GM, plain and simple. There is no one in the NFL who would hire him just as a personnel guy. Other than himself, of course.

 

[rcaldw]

How many times are we going to hear how Jerry is the sole reason why we won't do anything? I think this reasoning has run it's course.

So if we get beat by a better team, or a team that plays a little better than Dallas, you can continue to say, "I told you so?"

You got one thing right, I will continue to cheer for the Cowboys and hope we go all the way. Regardless of who is owner or GM, or the mascot, or... well, you get my drift.

Note: Sometimes the players have to be held accountable too.

Just because something has been said alot doesn't mean that it's wrong. I grant you that it might get old hearing about it, but in my view it is still right. If Jerry Jones was committed to hiring the best personnel guy out there he would have to fire himself. That is the truth. If he was committed to hiring the best head coach available he would have to fire Wade. That is the truth. So why do he and Wade have the jobs they do? Because Jerry is committed to running his team in the way that gives him the most enjoyment. Nothing wrong with that, he bought the team, just don't tell me that his #1 goal is winning. His #1 goal is winning in a way that makes it fun for him and gives him the attention he wants. In the mean time we are still on a 14 year search for a playoff win. Is that a fact?

 

[WV Cowboy]

There are so many things that go into winning the Super Bowl. 100 things have to fall in line, 100 things have to go your way.

Jerry could be doing a lot of things right and still not win the Super Bowl.

He could be doing a lot of things wrong and that be the reason he doesn't win.

Who knows?

The Rooney's did not win a Super Bowl from 1980 until 2007. - 27 yrs

Green Bay went from 1968 until 1997. - 29 yrs

San Fran has won once since 1990.

If you are a fan, which we all are, you are already on the train, .. you have to just wait and see where it is going.

We were thrilled in the early 90's, ... we were on top.
Since then not so much.

All we can do is wait and see.

:starspin

 

[rcaldw]

There are so many things that go into winning the Super Bowl. 100 things have to fall in line, 100 things have to go your way.

Jerry could be doing a lot of things right and still not win the Super Bowl.

He could be doing a lot of things wrong and that be the reason he doesn't win.

Who knows?

The Rooney's did not win a Super Bowl from 1980 until 2007. - 27 yrs

Green Bay went from 1968 until 1997. - 29 yrs

San Fran has won once since 1990.

If you are a fan, which we all are, you are already on the train, .. you have to just wait and see where it is going.

We were thrilled in the early 90's, ... we were on top.
Since then not so much.

All we can do is wait and see.

:starspin

You are correct sir. I'm looking forward to tomorrow.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Where was this thread when our O was scoring 30 points a game? Nice timing, rcaldw.

Just kidding!

I'd love to know how much Jerry really does behind the scenes. I still think most of the ideas he talks about in public, like Ogletree playing more, come from the coaches and not vice-versa. He wants the credit but I don't think he really comes up with these things on his own. Same as in the draft.

But I do agree that his #1 priority is getting attention and credit. Too many media people have talked about it for it not to be true. And while he does want to win, I'm starting to think the real reason he does is because he makes more money that way.

 

[Doomsday101]

Where was this thread when our O was scoring 30 points a game? Nice timing, rcaldw.

Just kidding!

I'd love to know how much Jerry really does behind the scenes. I still think most of the ideas he talks about in public, like Ogletree playing more, come from the coaches and not vice-versa. He wants the credit but I don't think he really comes up with these things on his own. Same as in the draft.

But I do agree that his #1 priority is getting attention and credit. Too many media people have talked about it for it not to be true. And while he does want to win, I'm starting to think the real reason he does is because he makes more money that way.

I agree. I think much of what Jerry talks about is things that the staff talks to Jerry about. As for the reason to win I don't doubt winning helps put money in your pocket for any team out there but I think it is more than money I think Jerry is a completive person

 

[WV Cowboy]

You are correct sir. I'm looking forward to tomorrow.

I am looking forward to tomorrow as well, .. but I am also looking forward to a "rare" football weekend overall.

Thurs - Cowboys on Thanksgiving (nuff said)

Fri - WVU plays Pitt in the "Backyard Brawl" - throw out the records, this one is always a dogfight.

Sat - Our local high school, my alma mater, of which I have been the PA announcer for 16 or so seasons, plays in the semi-finals of the AAA state playoffs, against the defending State Champions, ... #3 -vs- #2

I can't wait !! 3 huge games in 3 days,(actually 3 games in 48 hours) ... and my 3 favorite teams. High school, college, pro.