Where the Jones' regime has failed the most

[LonnieElam]

culture of entitlement and softness is what in the end dooms every season

This.

 

[Robbieac]

You seem intent on your binary viewpoint. I could take or leave him but you call me a fan because I don't hate him.

I don't have interest in oversimplifications, scapegoats, or copium in general.

A. I wasn’t speaking to you.

B. Even if I was speaking to you (I wasn’t), when did I say that you hate him?

C. The point remains. There is a segment here that thinks 28 years of garbage is only “recent futility”.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

A. I wasn’t speaking to you.

B. Even if I was speaking to you (I wasn’t), when did I say that you hate him?

A. This is a public forum. There are services on this board that allow private conversations.

B. You are spouting the "Jerry lover" narrative for someone that does not see things as you. It fits.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

A. I wasn’t speaking to you.

B. Even if I was speaking to you (I wasn’t), when did I say that you hate him?

C. The point remains. There is a segment here that thinks 28 years of garbage is only “recent futility”.

C. or she could have been talking about the recent futility of this team core the past 4 years and pretty much no one thinks your strawman.

 

[Buzzbait]

Good GMs sometimes make pre-emptive moves to set themselves up to get an impact player at a critical position. Jerry and Steven aren't good at this. We've needed a foundational 1T run stuffing talent for years
but never seem in position to get one.

You'd think they would've figured that out by now but they haven't.

 

[john van brocklin]

It’s pretty simple really. The winning owners of the last 28 Super Bowls all hired someone else to be their GM. That’s not a coincidence. Being the owner and GM hasn’t worked in getting a championship since the mid-90s. It’s not a secret or complicated. That’s the problem with the Jones.

Truth!
Fact!
100%

Beating our heads against the wall,
Waiting for things to change.

 

[Bobhaze]

There’s been a few owners way back in the day that ran the show -Art Modell (Jim Brown) and a few decades ago - Al Davis (Marcus Allen)...plus Daniel Synder and Jerry Richardson in this century.
(Both forced out of "The Club" for their malfeasance.)
Kraft has stuck his nose in the football side a few times, and the Panthers owner Tepper + his wife have butted in on their GM's duties since acquiring the franchise.
Might be a couple of more that are trying to emulate the Joneses.

No owner is trying to emulate the Jones as an owner/GM. The closest is Mike Brown of the bengals, but he has basically hired a defacto GM lately.

Well if we going backwards in time and what’s good for a team….yeah, Al Davis was the owner GM of the raiders. But that was 2-3 decades ago. The owners like Snyder and Richardson were not the GM…they just meddled. Kraft started out meddling then wised up and let other football people take charge.

The owner/GM model doesn't work in the cap era. Period. I believe it’s mostly because owners must have a different perspective than a GM. The owner is focused on profit, popularity, keeping and gaining value. The GM is focused one thing only: winning a championship.

This is exactly why the Jones model can’t work any more in the cap era. If you have a GM who is free to focus solely on building a championship roster, the owner can hold that person accountable for results. Jerry runs everything like the owner. He never seems to care as much about doing GM things to win as he does being the owner to make a profit and increase value.

That conflict between the owner’s interest and the GM’s interest is what is killing us in Dallas.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It’s pretty simple really. The winning owners of the last 28 Super Bowls all hired someone else to be their GM. That’s not a coincidence. Being the owner and GM hasn’t worked in getting a championship since the mid-90s. It’s not a secret or complicated. That’s the problem with the Jones.

Yes but you extend that just one year and it becomes untrue.

That is the rub, Jerry kept Brandt and had him running the scouts, then Lacewell did after, then Ireland with Parcells then Ciskowski and most recently McClay.

It's the same structure as 89.

Jimmy was two years gone and they won. He was not good in college scouting after 91. He did not go to Miami and improve that squad over Shula.

This seems to be hard for people to understand: there is no magic bullet. Getting rid of Jones is not guaranteed to make things better. Stephen allowing McClay to have the GM title is not going to make a whit of difference in how business is done.

 

[Motorola]

No owner is trying to emulate the Jones as an owner/GM. The closest is Mike Brown of the bengals, but he has basically hired a defacto GM lately.

Well if we going backwards in time and what’s good for a team….yeah, Al Davis was the owner GM of the raiders. But that was 2-3 decades ago. The owners like Snyder and Richardson were not the GM…they just meddled. Kraft started out meddling then wised up and let other football people take charge.

The owner/GM model doesn't work in the cap era. Period. I believe it’s mostly because owners must have a different perspective than a GM. The owner is focused on profit, popularity, keeping and gaining value. The GM is focused one thing only: winning a championship.

This is exactly why the Jones model can’t work any more in the cap era. If you have a GM who is free to focus solely on building a championship roster, the owner can hold that person accountable for results. Jerry runs everything like the owner. He never seems to care as much about doing GM things to win as he does being the owner to make a profit and increase value.

That conflict between the owner’s interest and the GM’s interest is what is killing us in Dallas.

I beg to differ on the Teppers - he and wife Nicole attended Bryce Young's pro day...and there's stories they were upfront in wanting him while the former GM and HC preferred C. J. Stroud.
Well - Young was drafted by Carolina - and during the season the HC was booted out, with the GM soon to follow.

 

[Bobhaze]

Yes but you extend that just one year and it becomes untrue.

That is the rub, Jerry kept Brandt and had him running the scouts, then Lacewell did after, then Ireland with Parcells then Ciskowski and most recently McClay.

It's the same structure as 89.

Jimmy was two years gone and they won. He was not good in college scouting after 91. He did not go to Miami and improve that squad over Shula.

This seems to be hard for people to understand: there is no magic bullet. Getting rid of Jones is not guaranteed to make things better. Stephen allowing McClay to have the GM title is not going to make a whit of difference in how business is done.

But if there isn’t a “magic bullet”, it certainly appears there is a “deadly bullet” - having the owner also be the GM. It hasn’t worked in winning a championship since the 1995 season.

On the other hand - Having an owner hire a GM has worked 28 straight times. It’s not even arguable anymore

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

On the other hand - Having an owner hire a GM has worked 28 straight times. It’s not even arguable anymore

So?

You are gratuitously biasing to correlate to your preferred outcome and insisting it means cause.

 

[Bobhaze]

So?

You are gratuitously biasing to correlate to your preferred outcome and insisting it means cause.

You are free to believe the owner/GM model works in the cap era if you want to.

 

[LatinMind]

Since this topic never goes away, why not at least make an attempt to precisely pinpoint where the Jones regime has failed the most.
For me, it's the circus atmosphere and the constant promotion of America's Team propaganda. I really do believe it's a toxic atmosphere that always seems to catch up to the team around playoff time.

To be fair, I don't think overall that talent acquisition has been a problem. Sure there's been some bad drafts, but you can say that about every team in the league.

And some will invariably criticize not addressing the QB position with a premium pick. Maybe there is something to that, but things could have been a lot worse. Many teams would have been thrilled to have a Tony Romo or a Dak Prescott.

But for me it always came down to a fundamental lack of mental toughness and physicality, something this team has not had since the days of Jimmy Johnson, IMO.

What are your thoughts? Where have the Joneses failed you the most?

Think it has to be coach selection. Idc what people say the team has fielded one of the best teams every yr. No matter if it’s not fans want. At some point in every yr media has hyped up a Super Bowl run.

But come playoff time u can tell they just get outcoached

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You are free to believe the owner/GM model works in the cap era if you want to.

Again with mistaking correlation with cause. I'm a skeptic and you have not given a good argument for cause yet.

You are making a big deal out of what is essentially window dressing to stroke Jerry's ego.

You keep saying that no other team is run like this but that is not the case. Just because an owner gives executive power to a GM does not mean they have given up their executive power. Similarly, just because McClay does not have the GM title does not mean he lacks executive power. Your approach is facile at best.

This is not the school system or similar situation where those roles are clearly defined and delineated by law or collective bargaining. You are quibbling about titles when what matters is whose names are on the Cowboys signature card and can submit paperwork to the league.

Lurie, Biscotti, Kroenke, Mara, Davis, Brown, Richardson, Kraft, and I am sure many others not only retain executive power but they also use it in a way that your categorical insistence would describe the role of GM and coach. They hire and fire coaches, they choose and negotiate with VFA, they make draft picks, and they make dictates on game plans.

Your correlation makes no mechanical sense for cause.

 

[ArtClink]

This is a popular sentiment but it is not how the NFL process works.

The NFL will only accept submissions that are signed by someone on a teams executive signature list. The owner submits that. IT can have multiple names on it. The only way the owner is excluded is contractually and there is no such contract.

Now if you think that the egomaniacal Jones did not have his sig on that card then you are deluded.

Further, there are several picks that were not Jimmy particularly after the first few years.

For example, Jimmy did not want Aikman. He quickly drafted an inferior QB he was more comfortable with. He wanted James Francis in 1991 and the team turned to Gil Brandt's board. Generally speaking, after 91, the team relied on Brandt and Ciskoski's board. Ended up with Lett and Allen.

Jerry signed checks. Jimmy had in his contract that Jimmy had the final say in football matters cause he knew what kind of person Jerry was.

“Jimmy gettin’ upset!” - George Costanza

 

[ArtClink]

Other families that own NFL franchises have for the most part hired people experienced in football operations and stepped back = got out of the way.

Yes and they delegated power and authority to the football experts. The solution is really just that in a nutshell.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Jerry signed checks. Jimmy had in his contract that Jimmy had the final say in football matters cause he knew what kind of person Jerry was.

“Jimmy gettin’ upset!” - George Costanza

I have looked for any evidence of that and cannot find it.

 

[noshame]

1. He wants to, and has tried to be HC, lead scout, draft guru, and QB whisperer, as he's drafted QB projects After all he'd have to share the glory with a blue chip QB.


Fortunately those days have come to a end.
Either Trey will show he can be all that, or Jerry will pull the trigger in the draft. Hopefully trading Parsons if needed to reach the top of the draft.
We are on the right path.
Finally

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I did find:

Johnson said that Jones, who had once ensured him he had complete control, now wanted a different setup and tried to put it into writing when he doubled Johnson’s salary last summer.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-03-30-sp-40126-story.html

That means it was a supposed verbal agreement. Jimmy of course had kittens when Jerry traded for Everett.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

To me, their failure is really simple.......sure they have drafted well but you can't win big in the league with drafted players alone. I challenge anyone to review the last 12-15 Super Bowl winners and find at least 2 teams that DID NOT add at least 1 or 2 quality free agents. This IMO is why we can "hang around the rim" but can't close the gap.