Why are the Watkins Fans So Afraid of Bringing in Competition?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

NOBODY IS ARGUING THAT!!!!! This discussion is about whether its WORTH THE 1st round draft pick and/or the MONEY to bring in those top notch players.

As has already been stated numerous times... you can't have ProBowlers/1st round picks at EVERY position.

im well aware you cant have probowlers at every position. You keep saying this like it matters at all. When going into the draft/FA i dont look at what we have done in the past as much as i look at what spot is in most need of an upgrade.

Well go over this again because apparently you werent there for it the last time.

lets look at the various positions and what drafting a first rounder or bringing top notch FAs would represent.

Now keep in mind what many are telling me is that

QB: well in FA there is not much out there so we can discount that. Drafting one would not make a lot of sense because they wouldnt get many snaps as oppsed to Romo. You draft a QB and there wont be a competition simply due to how practices are run. No QB we drafted would have a shot to start

RB: Im not anti this idea because RBs break down a lot and i dont see Jones as a feature back and we have yet to see Barber carry the load. Barber unlike Watkins did not go to the toilet at points last season and i would think deserves a shot to be the man esp with Jones in reserve. Any RB not named Peterson will not start. Of the FA calss Jamal Lewis would start but the improvement form Barber/Jones to Lewis is unsure.

OT: Now for a long term standpoint this makes sense. Adams is older and McQuistan isnt a sure thing by any means so a tackle is not a bad idea. However, any tackle we draft is not going to start barring injury. Stinchcomb could be an upgrade but Davis and the rest are about par or worse that what we have.

OG: Now i am assuming we sign one of Dielman, Steinbach or Dockery so any guard we draft would not start. FA or draft would easily result in the biggest upgrade over the player replaced.

C: Noone is going to start over Gurode FA or draft.

TE: Witten AllPro and Fasano showed falshes no one is going to break that lineup.

WR: unless we cut Owens or he or Glenn gets hurt then noone brought in or drafted at 22 would start.

DE: Spear Hatcher and Canty, Now if Carriker fell that would be intiguing but its not going to happen. The Fa crop of DL is very very thin.

DT: Fergy is entrenched here easily being our best lineman. Depth is a concern but there arent going to be any players at 22 woth drafting for this spot.

LB: i would be very much so for the idea of picking one of these up either in the draft or FA and moving Carp inside. ILB and S were both the weakest spots all year log on defense. going from James to a high quality player would be a tremendous improvement.

CB: Henry is always hurt. when hes healthy, he very very good. Reeves took a step back last season. Getting one of these would signal a good improvement.

S: Williams isnt going to be replaced so no need to discuss this but there is no question in my mind that any one of Babineaux, Grant, Landry or Nelson would easily beat out Watkins and transform what was below average production into above average production.

Essentially the only positions that are on the roster that NEED improvement are OG, S/LB, and CB in that order.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If dumb is the term you wish to use to describe my opinion, that's fine. I'm not affraid of the boards opinion where this is concerned. Your original reasoning for this was that we are all affraid to bring in comp for Watkins. Well, suppose you explain to me how using a 1st round pick on a Safety reflects anything but the team expecting that player to be a long term starter. That doesn't represent compatition. That represents expectation. Explain to me how this is wrong. I'm willing to be convinced if you feel your reasoning is sound. Let me hear it.

BPA is the way to go but in truch, if our BPA is at a position you are not ready to invest a 1st round pick on, then you trade. That's the way it works. Only team knows how they feel about Watkins. They may elect to draft a FS, who knows? Certainly not you. If that happens, then I'd say the team feels like they know all they need to know about Watkins. However, this is really not about the player, per say. This is about how you run your football team. This is about philosophy of building a team. In my opinion, you don't give up on players that are physically talented enough to play the position at a high level. mental mistakes are part of player development. You don't just give up on these guys after a season. That's a receipe for disaster IMO. Not a policy I am in favor of adopting for our football team.

I'm listining.

The only positions that as of right now our first rounder will start at are S and LB. You keep saying this but never respond to the fact that probably anyone that we drafted in the first round with the exception of safety or OG would be a backup.

So lets just trade down to the third so we can not have to worry about expectations of a first rounder.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Its just called giving a guy a chance to learn and grow.

What if Brady was cut loose becuase he was just a back up?

Damn, give the man 3 years, if he doesnt pan out then replace him.

If he showed zero potential then I would be all for moving on, but the kid has upside and showed sparks once he got bback in.

Bradie needs to be replaced.

Im not saying that Watkins is horrible and we should cut him. What im saying is that with our defensive personell we need someone in there we know can start and compete with other starters NOW. Not when Watkins puts it together if he ever does.

 

[theogt]

FuzzyLumpkins is entering the eduncan22 stratosphere.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Not sure where you learned math but allowing TD's in 68% of the games started (Taylor) is a good bit more than allowing TD's in 50% of games started.

He wsa on pace to give up AT LEAST 8 TDs over 16 games versus 10 or whatever it was for Taylor.

So wow, Watkins stats are similar to what you claim is the worst FS in the NFL last year.

Edit: BTW im learning math at the college of engineering a tthe university of texas. Im learning triple integrals and jacobian differentiation atm. If youd ever like to butt heads on that score id be more than happy to.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

FuzzyLumpkins is entering the eduncan22 stratosphere.

Whatever Theo. I am trying to talk to 3 people at once.

Average at best for three games is all it takes for you to get over some of the worst safety play we have seen since Dixon started and hand someone the starting job.

 

[smarta5150]

Bradie needs to be replaced.

Im not saying that Watkins is horrible and we should cut him. What im saying is that with our defensive personell we need someone in there we know can start and compete with other starters NOW. Not when Watkins puts it together if he ever does.

If Parcells didnt make the mistake in benching Watkins we would have a better idea of what he can do.

Even if he didnt bench him it still is virtually impossible to gauge someone based on 1 year, espicially that of a rookie season.

Like I said before, competition is good and might be needed to motivate Watkins some more but using a 1st round (even a 1st day) pick on a FS or shelling out big money for a FA is very wasteful.

Our 1st day picks, IMO, should be seeing the field this year (tweener (see sig), WR, and either an OL (depends on our FA) or NT), therefor we cant waste them on a potential BACKUP free safety.

 

[TEK2000]

Yeah yeah fuzzy... I saw that post the first time when you laced it with the "we gotta coddle our young players" theme. I chose to ignore it as it was pretty much rubbish.

Put me down for wanting a very good CB in this draft... yep, I'm perfectly ok picking up a 1st round CB this year. We've got Henry who's had nagging injuries the last 2 seasons and Glenn who's getting up in age and clearly cannot be a full time player if Newman/Henry happen to get injured. If Newman/Henry/Glenn all stay healthy, it gives our rookie CB a season of learning from our veterans before he's thrown to the wolves and we can play him as needed rather than being FORCED to start a rookie. Then in the 2008 season, when Aaron Glenn is gone and if Anthony Henry can't quite go, we've got our new, young CB to put out there.

Aaron Ross perhaps... he could return punts rather than having our best CB, Newman, doing that duty.

FS is not a position that most teams choose to spend a lot of money on or really high draft picks on. GOOD CB's are much harder to come by than FS's.

If we pick up a FA FS then that's just fine, I just don't see the need to draft another FS and go through another year of rookie mistakes. I also don't want us to spend a ton of money on our FA FS. If Wade Phillips is able to take this defensive front to the next level in pass rushing, we don't need a top notch FS, we just need a solid FS.

 

[TEK2000]

He wsa on pace to give up AT LEAST 8 TDs over 16 games versus 10 or whatever it was for Taylor.

So wow, Watkins stats are similar to what you claim is the worst FS in the NFL last year.

Most of the Safety stats I've seen in TD's allowed have each player's TD's allowed at around 6 or 8 or so. If I remember correctly, Taylor was THE WORST in the NFL with 11 TD's allowed.

Ed Reed gave up 6
Roy Williams gave up 8
Adrian Wilson game up 8 I believe.

Watkins was on pace to allow 8 TD's so I'd say he was pretty AVERAGE. If you factor in the stats (INT's and PD's) of the other rookie safeties drafted ahead of him... I'd say he did BETTER THAN AVERAGE for a rookie FS.

Edit: BTW im learning math at the college of engineering a tthe university of texas. Im learning triple integrals and jacobian differentiation atm. If youd ever like to butt heads on that score id be more than happy to.

Good for you.
What engineering field?

 

[smarta5150]

Most of the Safety stats I've seen in TD's allowed have each player's TD's allowed at around 6 or 8 or so. If I remember correctly, Taylor was THE WORST in the NFL with 11 TD's allowed.

Ed Reed gave up 6
Roy Williams gave up 8
Adrian Wilson game up 8 I believe.

Watkins was on pace to allow 8 TD's so I'd say he was pretty AVERAGE. If you factor in the stats (INT's and PD's) of the other rookie safeties drafted ahead of him... I'd say he did BETTER THAN AVERAGE for a rookie FS.

Careful Tek.

Some people seriously watch ONLY the Dallas Cowboys and fail to realize the norms of the league.

It was like those awful threads popping up about how our defense drops too many INTs.

Then the playoffs roll around and those posters started to notice all defenders drop INTs :laugh2:

 

[theogt]

Whatever Theo. I am trying to talk to 3 people at once.

Average at best for three games is all it takes for you to get over some of the worst safety play we have seen since Dixon started and hand someone the starting job.

I guess you just don't get that you're in an extreme minority in your opinion.

You have no stats. You have nothing at all to back up your opinion. It's just your opinion. You can't change people's minds unless you have a real argument. You don't. It's all "he sucks cause I say so" mess.

"worst safety play we have seen since Dixon"

Christ almighty that's a silly thing to say. Not that you care, but honestly you're ruining any credibility you have.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yeah yeah fuzzy... I saw that post the first time when you laced it with the "we gotta coddle our young players" theme. I chose to ignore it as it was pretty much rubbish.

Put me down for wanting a very good CB in this draft... yep, I'm perfectly ok picking up a 1st round CB this year. We've got Henry who's had nagging injuries the last 2 seasons and Glenn who's getting up in age and clearly cannot be a full time player if Newman/Henry happen to get injured. If Newman/Henry/Glenn all stay healthy, it gives our rookie CB a season of learning from our veterans before he's thrown to the wolves and we can play him as needed rather than being FORCED to start a rookie. Then in the 2008 season, when Aaron Glenn is gone and if Anthony Henry can't quite go, we've got our new, young CB to put out there.

Aaron Ross perhaps... he could return punts rather than having our best CB, Newman, doing that duty.

FS is not a position that most teams choose to spend a lot of money on or really high draft picks on. GOOD CB's are much harder to come by than FS's.

If we pick up a FA FS then that's just fine, I just don't see the need to draft another FS and go through another year of rookie mistakes. I also don't want us to spend a ton of money on our FA FS. If Wade Phillips is able to take this defensive front to the next level in pass rushing, we don't need a top notch FS, we just need a solid FS.

The only CB better than Landry or Nelson is Hall. Ross is not as good of value at 22 as those tow are and Hall isnt going to fall. Those tow may not either.

In FA you have Clements and when you talk about money hes going to get top dollar and then Babineaux and Grant.

the safety market is better than the CB market.

 

[InmanRoshi]

You have no stats. You have nothing at all to back up your opinion. It's just your opinion. You can't change people's minds unless you have a real argument. You don't. It's all "he sucks cause I say so" mess.

Ugh, he was benched for Keith Davis. That's pretty good evidence he was horrible.

What evidence do you have that he wasn't horrible?

 

[smarta5150]

Ugh, he was benched for Keith Davis. That's pretty good evidence he was horrible.

What evidence do you have that he wasn't horrible?

You guys keep saying this... just because Parcells made that change doesnt mean it was the right change.

 

[the kid 05]

Ugh, he was benched for Keith Davis. That's pretty good evidence he was horrible.

What evidence do you have that he wasn't horrible?

first year playing in the NFL for one of the most prestiges teams in the league?

Hes a rookie, chances are they make mistakes and will play bad every once and a while.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I guess you just don't get that you're in an extreme minority in your opinion.

You have no stats. You have nothing at all to back up your opinion. It's just your opinion. You can't change people's minds unless you have a real argument. You don't. It's all "he sucks cause I say so" mess.

"worst safety play we have seen since Dixon"

Christ almighty that's a silly thing to say. Not that you care, but honestly you're ruining any credibility you have.

like i could really care less what the popular opinion here was. my goal is not to fit in.

And conversely you have no stats at all either because DBs are extremely difficult to evaluate or get statistics on. As is the case with most defensive statmaking in any sports.

You watched both Giants games and that Philly game last year and yeah i saw some of the worst FS play i have ever seen period. And that includes Dixon. You say that reduces my credibility. the fact that you dont recognize it diminishes yours.

 

[theogt]

Ugh, he was benched for Keith Davis. That's pretty good evidence he was horrible.

No, that's not evidence of a single damned thing.

What evidence do you have that he wasn't horrible?

3 INTs. 4 passes defensed. That's better than any rookie FS in his draft class.

 

[TEK2000]

The only CB better than Landry or Nelson is Hall. Ross is not as good of value at 22 as those tow are and Hall isnt going to fall. Those tow may not either.

In FA you have Clements and when you talk about money hes going to get top dollar and then Babineaux and Grant.

the safety market is better than the CB market.

But is Landry or Nelson going to still be there at #22? From what I've seen that's highly doubtful. From what I understand, Ross could be right around our range of #22 pick without being too much of a reach.

If we pick up a FA FS I dont want to spend a ton of money on a FS because we've got big dollars already tied up in our secondary in Roy Williams, Anthony Henry, and soon to be Terrence Newman.

 

[smarta5150]

like i could really care less what the popular opinion here was. my goal is not to fit in.

And conversely you have no stats at all either because DBs are extremely difficult to evaluate or get statistics on. As is the case with most defensive statmaking in any sports.

You watched both Giants games and that Philly game last year and yeah i saw some of the worst FS play i have ever seen period. And that includes Dixon. You say that reduces my credibility. the fact that you dont recognize it diminishes yours.

Then I suggest you watch games other than just the Cowboys.

 

[theogt]

like i could really care less what the popular opinion here was. my goal is not to fit in.

And conversely you have no stats at all either because DBs are extremely difficult to evaluate or get statistics on. As is the case with most defensive statmaking in any sports.

You watched both Giants games and that Philly game last year and yeah i saw some of the worst FS play i have ever seen period. And that includes Dixon. You say that reduces my credibility. the fact that you dont recognize it diminishes yours.

The saying is, "could not care less."

The Philly game was horrible. That Giants game was not. He played much too timid at the beginning of the season. He was actually in a position to make a play in the one bad play he had in the Giants game. He just has to learn to be more agressive on the ball. In fact, he started started doing just that later in the season. He was a rookie for chrissakes. I'm not the one starting threads saying people suck. If I did do that, I would be able to back it up. You should probably try that some time -- backing up your assertions, that is.