Ya'll still miss Kellen Moore?

[Big D]

The biggest problem with Moore's offense was that it featured too many option routes. Once defenses know what options will be chosen based on the coverage they show it becomes fairly simple for them to show you a coverage, let you select your routes based off it, and then shift into a different coverage at the snap, putting them in prime position to destroy your play. Better DCs figured that out and were able to neuter our offense except when we just had such superior talent that there was nothing that could be done about it even if defense knew the play.

Actually l forget I said all this.. the REAL biggest problem with Moore's offense was dude had zero feel for the running game. He would call running plays essentially as throw aways until he could get to the next pass play on his sheet. The running plays he called rarely had any real intent to them. Even when the running game is failing this season you can see they are setting things up and keeping the defense from teeing off on Dak. That's why even though the overall numbers are not great, the impact of the runs are good enough to win games.

My biggest issue with him was the Boise st philosophy of "no philosophy". Not adhering to basics in favor of being random.

 

[GINeric]

I agree I don't believe he is trash. I believe is intelligent and creative. What he is not is great on game day. As I have said many times, his downfall and the downfall of Jason Garrett before him was the whole "take what the defense gives you " mentality. It's too passive. Most defenses are designed not to "give" you anything. At least not anything you want. But because the Garrett/Moore approach leaned on being reactive to what the defense "give" they could be manipulated into running the wrong play at the wrong time too often. That's why the offense almost always ran better when we were in no-huddle whether it be with Dak or with Romo before him. Romo eventually got to be smarter about calling plays than the guys calling plays for him and Dak eventually got to that point as well. The problem was that being smarter than the play caller did not always mean you were smarter than the opposing DC. So sometimes neither QB could overcome the limitations in the offense. What we are seeing now is that Dak, with the help of McCarthy and Schottie might actually BE smarter than opposing DCs. At least he's been smarter than the last 6. We will see if that continues but right now he is seeing what the defense is trying to do to the offense and attacking it rather than laying back and "taking what is given." It's a very subtle difference.. but if you look closely you can see it.

Okay if you really believe he's intelligent....

Explain why an "intelligent" offensive coordinator would call for three straight passing plays on 2nd, 3rd, and 4th and short or goal to go in games his running backs are averaging 5 and 6 yards a carry???

Again.... your running backs are averaging 5, 6 yards a carry and it's 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 2 to go, or you're on the 3 yard line.... what intelligent person would keep calling passing plays for 2 or 3 yards to go, when your opponents are giving up 5 and 6 yards on the ground???

Or calling for 3 yard hitch and curl routes when it's 3rd and 8, 3rd and 9????

Please make any of this make sense or connect with "Intelligent" decision making.


I'll wait....

 

[Clove]

We're back to running Moore's offense, so I'd say he got the last laugh.

I don't see that at all.

 

[kskboys]

We've had an above average passing game for years and years, before and after Moore, there's nothing new with that. Where's that improved running game we were supposed to get after Moore left? That's what I want to know.

It's right there w/ the plethora of #2 RB's on the roster. Now, if that was MM's decision, he's a dummy. I doubt it, though.

 

[kskboys]

I agree I don't believe he is trash. I believe is intelligent and creative. What he is not is great on game day. As I have said many times, his downfall and the downfall of Jason Garrett before him was the whole "take what the defense gives you " mentality. It's too passive. Most defenses are designed not to "give" you anything. At least not anything you want. But because the Garrett/Moore approach leaned on being reactive to what the defense "give" they could be manipulated into running the wrong play at the wrong time too often. That's why the offense almost always ran better when we were in no-huddle whether it be with Dak or with Romo before him. Romo eventually got to be smarter about calling plays than the guys calling plays for him and Dak eventually got to that point as well. The problem was that being smarter than the play caller did not always mean you were smarter than the opposing DC. So sometimes neither QB could overcome the limitations in the offense. What we are seeing now is that Dak, with the help of McCarthy and Schottie might actually BE smarter than opposing DCs. At least he's been smarter than the last 6. We will see if that continues but right now he is seeing what the defense is trying to do to the offense and attacking it rather than laying back and "taking what is given." It's a very subtle difference.. but if you look closely you can see it.

Attacking it is the same thing as taking what it given. It's not a difference at all.

 

[kskboys]

Okay if you really believe he's intelligent....

Explain why an "intelligent" offensive coordinator would call for three straight passing plays on 2nd, 3rd, and 4th and short or goal to go in games his running backs are averaging 5 and 6 yards a carry???

Again.... your running backs are averaging 5, 6 yards a carry and it's 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 2 to go, or you're on the 3 yard line.... what intelligent person would keep calling passing plays for 2 or 3 yards to go, when your opponents are giving up 5 and 6 yards on the ground???

Or calling for 3 yard hitch and curl routes when it's 3rd and 8, 3rd and 9????

Please make any of this make sense or connect with "Intelligent" decision making.


I'll wait....

There are a lot of intelligent people who can't build a house.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

It's right there w/ the plethora of #2 RB's on the roster. Now, if that was MM's decision, he's a dummy. I doubt it, though.

Well therein lies the rub,,, we're constantly bashing and firing coaches while key decisions on players, coordinators, assistants, etc are being made by the front office. Fans feel like progress is being made when a coach gets fired but I'm not so sure about that, especially in Dallas. There's an appearance of movement when actually there is none.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

He never left.

I don't know what you are watching. In fact the offense that most closely matches what the Cowboys have been running post-bye is the 49ers. Inside zone runs, quick slants, outside tosses to the backs- when did Kellen Moore ever do that?

Moore's third down plan was to have the receivers run curls at the marker. Even I figured this out.

 

[GINeric]

There are a lot of intelligent people who can't build a house.

Well apparently they can't call offensive plays according to the flow of a game either. Moore proved that.

 

[Eddie]

Who the heck missed Moore ???

 

[EPL0c0]

The Dallas run game has actually gotten worse

from 4.3yd/carry in 2022 to 4.1yd/carry in 2023 thus far

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?!?! I just don't get it.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

I've been hard on McCarthy until as of late when he's been calling a good game as OC and the play designs have been more creative using the Cowboys talent. And the Cowboys are getting off to faster starts (though this team still goes 3&out on the first drive too often ).

But even when the offense was struggling earlier in the season, and the Chargers seemingly had a "better" offense at the time, I still didn't long for Moore to return.

But many fans did lament his departure, as if Moore was going to give the Cowboys some decided edge this season.


You see the Chargers struggling at 4-7 with him as the OC (though, yes, their HC isn't really good either so...)

And why is elite arm-talent, high-hope Herbert getting a pass every year? Yes, you can point at the HC, but Herbert's routinely coming up short in Big Moments, and the pundits don't give him a hard time.

I wonder if we go over to the Chargers forum, will we see a loss of hope in their QB, since the Chargers are taking another swan dive this season? But he's younger, so I guess age matters, a longer leash...for now.

At 4-7 by the Chargers I can see what an offensive dynamo Kellen Moore is in LA.
If you know a Chargers fan, take him out to lunch to commiserate.

 

[jaythecowboy]

I was just about to make this topic lol

 

[kskboys]

The Dallas run game has actually gotten worse

from 4.3yd/carry in 2022 to 4.1yd/carry in 2023 thus far

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?!?! I just don't get it.

Lack of starting quality RBs and the loss of a starting OL along w/ backup Peters. Also doesn't help losing the threat of Schultz at TE whose presence helped create room.

 

[kskboys]

Well apparently they can't call offensive plays according to the flow of a game either. Moore proved that.

Happens. Just because a person is intelligent does not mean at all that they can do anything. I'm sure Moore is a wizz at some things.

 

[Praxit]

..one more loss for chargers. All coaches will be fired, including boy wonder.
That should answer some questions

 

[diamonddelts]

Moore should have been the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys for the past seven years and even now, and I am sure he has a lot of knowledge, but I never was sold on him as a coordinator.
But he was the best quarterback in Dallas for 9 years.

Stop using drugs Lee.

 

[Qcard]

Kellen helping Staly get fired.

He's using his Mentor's old Trick....we like our guys!!

 

[Joe Realist]

I've been hard on McCarthy until as of late when he's been calling a good game as OC and the play designs have been more creative using the Cowboys talent. And the Cowboys are getting off to faster starts (though this team still goes 3&out on the first drive too often ).

But even when the offense was struggling earlier in the season, and the Chargers seemingly had a "better" offense at the time, I still didn't long for Moore to return.

But many fans did lament his departure, as if Moore was going to give the Cowboys some decided edge this season.


You see the Chargers struggling at 4-7 with him as the OC (though, yes, their HC isn't really good either so...)

And why is elite arm-talent, high-hope Herbert getting a pass every year? Yes, you can point at the HC, but Herbert's routinely coming up short in Big Moments, and the pundits don't give him a hard time.

I wonder if we go over to the Chargers forum, will we see a loss of hope in their QB, since the Chargers are taking another swan dive this season? But he's younger, so I guess age matters, a longer leash...for now.

Chargers don’t have any fans.

 

[SultanOfSix]

Sorry to kill your lil agenda.... but I was the one calling for Cooper Rush to keep the starting role even when Dak got healthy IF Rush was able to lead us past the Eagles when he was on a nice lil win streak.

That's on record on this forum my guy!!!

So when Dak got rebuked, most times it was justifiable.

Again, sorry to kill your lil agenda, but you gotta try harder kid. Next time leave out the lies when it comes to how I feel about other's criticism of Dak. I've actually agreed with most of their criticism.

LOL at agenda. I’m not the one raggin’ on our former offensive coordinator as the problem who led the team to multiple top 5 offenses in the league “despite himself”.

But way to miss the overall point.

So was backup QB Cooper Rush winning despite Moore too?

Is Justin Herbert just not good enough to overcome what backup QB Cooper Rush was able to do?

“Try harder kid.”