Young's handlers aren't handling their business

[Hostile]

Quick poll so the dense can see:

Say yes if you think Alex Smith looks like a bust.

Yes

Too soon to say.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I also thought he should stay in college another year and work on his passing. He put up excellent numbers but the times I watched him he threw a lot of short passes, which he is very good at, but missed most of his deep throws badly. Granted I only saw him play a couple of times but that is all I have to go by.

it looks like Vince YOung needs to go to a certain offensive system in order to succeed, the WCO for example, where his strength, throwing short passes, is best utilized, and wouldn't have to throw deep that much, so he could work on his deep throwing as he grows

 

[BigDFan5]

Leinart born May 11, 1983
Young born May 18, 1983

One week, two years whats the difference

 

[5Stars]

Too soon to say.

It's too soon to say for any player coming into the NFL...that is why I think that kartr's statement that Vince Young is already better then 'Ron Mexico'...! What?

 

[BigDFan5]

What I don't get is here is Kartr implying that the powers that be in Dallas ran off Carter because he was black and couldn't sell jerseys to all the racist Cowboys fans.

Now we are to believe that these very same people in charge are going to trade up for a BLACK QB in order to SELL JERSEYS.

Someone, anyone, want to explain that logic to me.:bang2:

BZ I thought you knew better than to expect any logic when talking to Kartr

 

[BigDFan5]

It gets old when the only time that 'black qbs' are mentioned here is when someone has something negative to say about them. When the Skins drafted Jason Campbell, a poster said that 'he sucks' even though he guided his team to a 13-0 season and had a fabulous season. In the Alabama game that year, the tide stopped both Williams and Brown cold and forced Campbell to throw. Well, he did quite well and won the game throwing the ball. Some here even made a Quincy Carter comparison, saying that they are the same player.

You really shouldnt say things knowing anyone can go look it up. Auburn won the game 21-13 Williams and Brown had combined for over 100 yards and scored 2 TDs. Cambell on the other hand had 1 TD and 1 INT to go along with 224 yards the defense allowed Alabama only 276 total yards and had 1 takeaway. Looking at the reality of the game. Cambell managed the game well but he damn sure didnt win it.

 

[fortdick]

Those are your words. But you must admit, since there's no logical basis for thinking that, maybe you're hoping he'll be a bust, so that the NFL will only draft 'pocket qbs' and not runners.

Pseudonyms:

Pocket QB - White

Runners - Black

Now, that being said, I am going to say what no one wants to say, but it is the biggest concern:

Character!

Look at all the players that have had issues with the law, or whatever. There have been some Pocket QB's, but by far the issues have been with the Runners. I, for one, would be concerned that a Running QB might repeat a QC.

Is that racist of me? Maybe, but it makes it no less real. Growing up in the inner city, underpriviledged, discrimated against, all that, is a definate disadvantage, but many Black athletes overcome it and become good role models for our children. My son grew up with Michael Jordan stuff all over and I felt good about it. Fortunately, he was smart enough to see that the gang bangin', saggy pants, Ho' slappin', hat on crooked types were trouble. Emmit Smith is someone to be proud of, Michael Irvin was not!

That is the bottom line with Young. He talks like he is in the ghetto and not ready to lead men in the huddle. You have to look at character. Why did Branch Rickey take Jackie Robinson over Satchel Paige? Character! Robinson displayed the strength to take the heat and rise above it. He didn't alienate people of other races. A college grad and war hero. He opened doors by being everyone's hero, not just the Black man's hero.

Bottom line is this; Michael Vick (AKA Ron Mexico) doesn't want to be the complete QB. He wants to be a Running QB. Look at the little brother if you want to know what I am talking about. Dante Culpepper lost control of himself and the team. He is irresponsible and lacks character. Aside from Don Meredith, I can't think of a Pocket QB that has made those mistakes.

Randall Cunningham is the Black QB everyone should look to has the standard. Yes, he can scramble, and that makes him dangerous. But he is not a Runner, he is a Pocket QB first. He leads his team with character and leadership. He accepts responsibility for the role he is in.

I have gone on enough. Character counts, and that is what Leinart has over Young. It is what Bledsoe has over Carter. It is the barrier that Black athletes have to get over as a group.

I do have to say that the image NBA is the biggest anchor around Black athelte's necks. There, I am done. Please don't ban me.

 

[5Stars]

You really shouldnt say things knowing anyone can go look it up. Auburn won the game 21-13 Williams and Brown had combined for over 100 yards and scored 2 TDs. Cambell on the other hand had 1 TD and 1 INT to go along with 224 yards the defense allowed Alabama only 276 total yards and had 1 takeaway. Looking at the reality of the game. Cambell managed the game well but he damn sure didnt win it.

"Some here even made a Quincy Carter comparison, saying that they are the same player."

But..but, uh...um...Quincy Carter won every game he played for the Cowboys! Don't you know that?

TELL HIM, kartr...tell him and the rest of us how QC singlehandley won every game and took the mighty Cowboys to the playoffs! AND! HE DID IT WITH BAD HANDLERS! TAKE THAT!! :laugh1:

 

[Hostile]

It's too soon to say for any player coming into the NFL...that is why I think that kartr's statement that Vince Young is already better then 'Ron Mexico'...! What?

I agree with you.

I like Vince Young, and would love to get him, but I'm also realistic. He has to prove he can make the next step, and it won't be in Dallas.

If people want to ignore the facts, that's their business. Doesn't change the facts just because someone does their impersonation of Helen Keller.

 

[BigDFan5]

That was said in jest, but, there is a difference. Carter was an unknown in this part of the country and was a first, a pioneer if you will, and that was 5 years ago. Black qb's are a more common occurrence today than then

More Nonsense

In 2001 here is a list of Black QBs who started over half of their teams games

Donovan mcnabb
Daunte Caulpepper
Tony Banks
Charlie Batch
Mike Vick
Aaron Brooks
Steve McNair
Randall Cunningham
Kordell Stewart


Now compare to 2005

McNabb
Caulpepper
McNair
Vick
Brooks
Leftwich


So black QBs are more common now than just 5 years ago, yet there are 3 LESS Black QBs that started last season that makes sense :doh:

 

[5Stars]

Pseudonyms:

Pocket QB - White

Runners - Black

Now, that being said, I am going to say what no one wants to say, but it is the biggest concern:

Character!

Look at all the players that have had issues with the law, or whatever. There have been some Pocket QB's, but by far the issues have been with the Runners. I, for one, would be concerned that a Running QB might repeat a QC.

Is that racist of me? Maybe, but it makes it no less real. Growing up in the inner city, underpriviledged, discrimated against, all that, is a definate disadvantage, but many Black athletes overcome it and become good role models for our children. My son grew up with Michael Jordan stuff all over and I felt good about it. Fortunately, he was smart enough to see that the gang bangin', saggy pants, Ho' slappin', hat on crooked types were trouble. Emmit Smith is someone to be proud of, Michael Irvin was not!

That is the bottom line with Young. He talks like he is in the ghetto and not ready to lead men in the huddle. You have to look at character. Why did Branch Rickey take Jackie Robinson over Satchel Paige? Character! Robinson displayed the strength to take the heat and rise above it. He didn't alienate people of other races. A college grad and war hero. He opened doors by being everyone's hero, not just the Black man's hero.

Bottom line is this; Michael Vick (AKA Ron Mexico) doesn't want to be the complete QB. He wants to be a Running QB. Look at the little brother if you want to know what I am talking about. Dante Culpepper lost control of himself and the team. He is irresponsible and lacks character. Aside from Don Meredith, I can't think of a Pocket QB that has made those mistakes.

Randall Cunningham is the Black QB everyone should look to has the standard. Yes, he can scramble, and that makes him dangerous. But he is not a Runner, he is a Pocket QB first. He leads his team with character and leadership. He accepts responsibility for the role he is in.

I have gone on enough. Character counts, and that is what Leinart has over Young. It is what Bledsoe has over Carter. It is the barrier that Black athletes have to get over as a group.

I do have to say that the image NBA is the biggest anchor around Black athelte's necks. There, I am done. Please don't ban me.

Post of the day!!!!!

 

[tyke1doe]

In my opinion, this really doesn't matter one way or the other. I don't love the idea of him risking injury but the possability of that was probably minimal so I guess it's all relative. As far as him hurting his status, I don't think thats really a concern. He will be evaluated on his body of work, while at Texas. He will be evaluated on his last season, particularly. He will be evaluated on the combine, his Pro Day and his personal workouts. This made for TV thing will never even come into play.

As for staying, I'm sorry but I don't agree. Can anybody on this board honestly tell me that the coaching staff at Texas would help him correct anything he's currently doing incorrectly? I just don't see it.

The team that drafts Young will not do so based on his ability to to start right now. It will do so based on his potential and projected success two or three years down the road. I see no reason he should wait to start his development, as an NFL QB, for another year.

I guess I just don't believe he has very much to gain by staying. I would stress that I also believe Young is a bit of a different animal here. His situation is very unique, IMO. Normally, I would be a major proponant (sp?) of staying in school but not in Young's case.

Good post.

The Texans are not going to take Vince Young, despite draft day rumors. They will take Reggie Bush because they have too much invested in Carr and because Bush is the consensus No. 1 pick.

Young will drop no lower than No. 3. He will still get a hefty signing bonus and will get to sit and learn behind Steve McNair.

There's not much more he would have learned at Texas because he was the star of that ship, and his style helped Texas win a National Championship, and I doubt anyone was going to tamper with his style of play.

Now he gets to go to the NFL and learn how to pass. He'll be find and collect millions of dollars sitting on the bench for a year or two.

 

[Rush 2112]

Post of the day!!!!!

Garbage and inaccurate.

Kerry Collins - Pocket QB - Alcoholic
Brett Favre - Pocket QB - Alcohol/Vicadin
Todd Marinovich - Pocket QB - Marijuana
Ryan Leaf - Pocket QB - Anger management/Attitude

Here's some more high character pocket QB's.

http://www.knbr.com/blog/blog/Printer_Friendly.asp?Entry=593

Where's this character flaw Young has again?

 

[5Stars]

Garbage and inaccurate.

Kerry Collins - Pocket QB - Alcoholic
Brett Favre - Pocket QB - Alcohol/Vicadin
Todd Marinovich - Pocket QB - Marijuana
Ryan Leaf - Pocket QB - Anger management/Attitude

Here's some more high character pocket QB's.

http://www.knbr.com/blog/blog/Printer_Friendly.asp?Entry=593

Where's this character flaw Young has again?

Point well taken! Good post!

Everyone has their flaws, however, to simply ignore it, like kartr does with QC, is way BEYOND belief! And, two of those QBs that I know of did some real good things in the NFL...and did not miss a beat!

Everyone deserves a second chance, and if they are good enough, some teams will give that to them...now, where is QC?

There were team last year the needed a QB...and the "great one" was never called upon...what does that say about "character"?

 

[kevwun]

Vince Young's character and athletic ability are his two biggest selling points. There have been countless articles written about his outstanding leadership ability. Are being black and not talking like an english teacher considered character flaws in your distorted world?

 

[Tio]

And just how many Super Bowl's have "runners" won yet?

VY is not an NFL QB, period. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

Your right, he won't be an nfl qb until the titans draft him number 3 overall, no doubt because theyre scouts deemed him worthy of it.

 

[Tio]

Young had the fewest rushing attempts, as a starter, in the season he won the SB.

Vick has 404 attempts in 5 years and Young had 722 in 15 seasons.

Talk about spinning facts. How many games did young even start?
But I agree, just a running qb cannot win, but VY isn't just a running qb.

 

[BigDFan5]

Talk about spinning facts. How many games did young even start?
But I agree, just a running qb cannot win, but VY isn't just a running qb.

Steve Young using just games when he was the starter and not years where he played some off the bench had:

568 carries over 128 games or 4 carries per game on average

Vick has 404 in 58 games or 7 per game average.

Most runs in a season Young 70, Vick 120

Vicks lowest where he played most of the season is 113 70 still highest for Young


Right now VY IS just a running QB

 

[blindzebra]

Talk about spinning facts. How many games did young even start?
But I agree, just a running qb cannot win, but VY isn't just a running qb.

I did not spin a damn thing.

Young was a starter in 10 of his 15 seasons, and 1994 was his 5th season as a starter and was the lowest attempts he had in any of those 5 seasons.

So spin on that.:laugh1:

 

[Tio]

More Nonsense

In 2001 here is a list of Black QBs who started over half of their teams games

Donovan mcnabb
Daunte Caulpepper
Tony Banks
Charlie Batch
Mike Vick
Aaron Brooks
Steve McNair
Randall Cunningham
Kordell Stewart


Now compare to 2005

McNabb
Caulpepper
McNair
Vick
Brooks
Leftwich


So black QBs are more common now than just 5 years ago, yet there are 3 LESS Black QBs that started last season that makes sense :doh:

Aaron brooks started a lot of games for the saints.