Bledsoe vs Brunell, the debate continues

[MichaelWinicki]

29th in the league in sacks allowed. No way to sugar coat that. We make fun of Carr always getting killed, Bledsoe wasn't that far behind. Our line struggled in pass protection like I haven't seen since Aikman's rookie year.

You're right BDC. Our pass protection sucked. No question about it.

But there is no doubt in my mind that Bledsoe probably added 8-10 to the total just because of his mannerisms.

 

[Juke99]

29th in the league in sacks allowed. No way to sugar coat that. We make fun of Carr always getting killed, Bledsoe wasn't that far behind. Our line struggled in pass protection like I haven't seen since Aikman's rookie year.

Yep.

I think part of that was the line.

I think part of that was Flozell going down.

And I think a large part of that was Bledsoe's lack of mobility.

 

[lspain1]

Yep.

I think part of that was the line.

I think part of that was Flozell going down.

And I think a large part of that was Bledsoe's lack of mobility.

Sorry Juke, I disagree. Bledsoe's lack of mobility played a very minor role. We had turnstiles on both ends of the line. Check out the sack totals in the first five games versus the rest of the season. Bledsoe didn't lose mobility after game 5, our OL descended into the abyss.

 

[rdsknsbaby]

I don't think that Brunell is better, but I do think that he is in a better system, making it look like he is actually better than Bledsoe. If Brunell had your O-line to work with last year, there is no way he would have been as successful. But at the same time I do not write Brunell off as a wash up. He will have another good year this year if our O-line can do what they did last year or be better than they were last year. If our O-line is better I believe that we will win the division and further ourselves in the Playoffs this year. You guys will have a re-vamped O-line which scares me. If Bledsoe has his time, he can throw with the best.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Sorry Juke, I disagree. Bledsoe's lack of mobility played a very minor role. We had turnstiles on both ends of the line. Check out the sack totals in the first five games versus the rest of the season. Bledsoe didn't lose mobility after game 5, our OL descended into the abyss.

While I hate to support Juke's position on anything cos he is almost universally wrong about stuff and your position does have considerable merit, I'll continue to support the point the view that Adams loss did have a big impact on our poor pass protection over the last 10 games of the season AND that defenses started to "figure out" how to stop this offense much like they did to Bledsoe/Buffalo in 2002. I've seen read this story before.

 

[lspain1]

While I hate to support Juke's position on anything cos he is almost universally wrong about stuff and your position does have considerable merit, I'll continue to support the point the view that Adams loss did have a big impact on our poor pass protection over the last 10 games of the season AND that defenses started to "figure out" how to stop this offense much like they did to Bledsoe/Buffalo in 2002. I've seen read this story before.

I have to be VERY careful about insulting Juke, because I want him to do a sig for me one day soon!

The argument about folks 'figuring out' our offense seems to hold some merit but I don't see how it makes much of an impact on sack totals. The 'figuring out' part seems to be that our OL could not protect long enough for a deep pass to work. Therefore the defense could stack the line against the short passsing (and running game) and there was nothing we could do. We couldn't run the ball or pass the ball effectively. It's the poor running part that adds to my argument that Bledsoe's mobility didn't have much to do with the sack totals.

 

[Juke99]

Sorry Juke, I disagree. Bledsoe's lack of mobility played a very minor role. We had turnstiles on both ends of the line. Check out the sack totals in the first five games versus the rest of the season. Bledsoe didn't lose mobility after game 5, our OL descended into the abyss.

Oh don't be sorry about it...be proud of it.

Bledsoe has been sacked 45- 50 times in a season a bunch of times.

So, I think I'll take that stat over what happened in the first 5 games.

Fact of the matter is, when Flozell went down, we went to maximum protect as the only option. We didn't move the pocket very often...we didn't roll out.. and there was a reason for that.

The other thing that floors me about the "Flozell alibi" is that last I looked, Flozell was simply a good player who btw, always had problems with speed guys. Now all of a sudden, his going down was the reason our entire season fell apart.

Actually, the fact that the coach has done a lousy job of building this offensive line and had ZERO to replace Adams was the bigger problem. But we don't want to get me started on that...do we?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Oh don't be sorry about it...be proud of it.

Bledsoe has been sacked 45- 50 times in a season a bunch of times.

So, I think I'll take that stat over what happened in the first 5 games.

Fact of the matter is, when Flozell went down, we went to maximum protect as the only option. We didn't move the pocket very often...we didn't roll out.. and there was a reason for that.

The other thing that floors me about the "Flozell alibi" is that last I looked, Flozell was simply a good player who btw, always had problems with speed guys. Now all of a sudden, his going down was the reason our entire season fell apart.

Actually, the fact that the coach has done a lousy job of building this offensive line and had ZERO to replace Adams was the bigger problem. But we don't want to get me started on that...do we?

If Bledsoe can't be sacked at least 40 times in a season then he's not trying.

 

[Juke99]

If Bledsoe can't be sacked at least 40 times in a season then he's not trying.

Yes but he should still be commended for his effort.

 

[burmafrd]

Come on you guys are starting to sound like skins fans. Denying the obvious.
FACT: that untill Flo went down Bledsoe was being mentioned as the obvious NFC Pro Bowl QB if he kept up the pace. FACT: after Flo went down,tucker needed to be helped as much or more so then Petitti did, and the offense had to be reworked to go to max protect. FACT: the sacks went up dramatically after Flo went down. He might not be a great LT, but he is a good one, and tons better then Tucker. You cannot deny the link in cause and effect.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I have to be VERY careful about insulting Juke, because I want him to do a sig for me one day soon!

The argument about folks 'figuring out' our offense seems to hold some merit but I don't see how it makes much of an impact on sack totals. The 'figuring out' part seems to be that our OL could not protect long enough for a deep pass to work. Therefore the defense could stack the line against the short passsing (and running game) and there was nothing we could do. We couldn't run the ball or pass the ball effectively. It's the poor running part that adds to my argument that Bledsoe's mobility didn't have much to do with the sack totals.

In 2002 the same thing happened. Bledsoe did extremely well for half a season until defenses took away the deep pass. And Bledsoe refused to take advantage of the short passing game.

Forgive me but I just don't buy the "the stacked the line against the running game and short pass".

The fact is Drew Bledsoe does not like the short passing game and has never liked the short passing game. He'll defy all logic to attempt the long pass.

 

[burmafrd]

You seem to think that this was all bledsoe in Buffalo. I do recall that they had a head coach and other people that just MIGHT have had something to say on how plays were called. The FACT that you want to deny this says a lot about your mindset: no matter what the evidence, its Bledsoe's fault.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Come on you guys are starting to sound like skins fans. Denying the obvious.
FACT: that untill Flo went down Bledsoe was being mentioned as the obvious NFC Pro Bowl QB if he kept up the pace. FACT: after Flo went down,tucker needed to be helped as much or more so then Petitti did, and the offense had to be reworked to go to max protect. FACT: the sacks went up dramatically after Flo went down. He might not be a great LT, but he is a good one, and tons better then Tucker. You cannot deny the link in cause and effect.

I'm not denying that the Adams injury caused problems-- not at all.

But Bledsoe suffering a second half slide isn't unusual.

 

[Juke99]

Come on you guys are starting to sound like skins fans. Denying the obvious.
FACT: that untill Flo went down Bledsoe was being mentioned as the obvious NFC Pro Bowl QB if he kept up the pace. FACT: after Flo went down,tucker needed to be helped as much or more so then Petitti did, and the offense had to be reworked to go to max protect. FACT: the sacks went up dramatically after Flo went down. He might not be a great LT, but he is a good one, and tons better then Tucker. You cannot deny the link in cause and effect.

FACT: In his five full seasons prior to signing with the Cowboys, Bledsoe was sacked 240 times with two different teams.
FACT: That's an average of 48 per season
FACT: His 49 sacks last season was average for him.
FACT: I really like Ben and Jerry's Cookie Dough ice cream.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

You seem to think that this was all bledsoe in Buffalo. I do recall that they had a head coach and other people that just MIGHT have had something to say on how plays were called. The FACT that you want to deny this says a lot about your mindset: no matter what the evidence, its Bledsoe's fault.

Nope not all Bledsoe's fault.

While you pay point a finger that I wish to blame Bledsoe of everything you sir on the other hand seem to wish to absolve him of all blame.

 

[cowboyschmps3]

Brunell Might Not Even Start.lol
He Sucks

 

[burmafrd]

A lot of QB's, Manning (P) included do not do as well the last 8 games as they do the first 8. Show me a QB that performs the same throughout each season and I will show you a very rare creature. Even when Manning set the TD record, the last 4-6 games he slowed down a lot. I suppose that was all his fault too- the rest of the team and the D had nothing to say about it.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

FACT: In his five full seasons prior to signing with the Cowboys, Bledsoe was sacked 240 times with two different teams.
FACT: That's an average of 48 per season
FACT: His 49 sacks last season was average for him.
FACT: I really like Ben and Jerry's Cookie Dough ice cream.

How dare you color this argument with facts!

 

[MichaelWinicki]

A lot of QB's, Manning (P) included do not do as well the last 8 games as they do the first 8. Show me a QB that performs the same throughout each season and I will show you a very rare creature. Even when Manning set the TD record, the last 4-6 games he slowed down a lot. I suppose that was all his fault too- the rest of the team and the D had nothing to say about it.

OK so you're saying Bledsoe did not contribute one ioda to the second half slide? Is that what you are saying?

 

[lspain1]

In 2002 the same thing happened. Bledsoe did extremely well for half a season until defenses took away the deep pass. And Bledsoe refused to take advantage of the short passing game.

Forgive me but I just don't buy the "the stacked the line against the running game and short pass".

The fact is Drew Bledsoe does not like the short passing game and has never liked the short passing game. He'll defy all logic to attempt the long pass.

I hope you are incorrect on this point. If Bledsoe can not take advantage of the short pass, then one of Owens' advantages to get YAC will be underutilized. I'll admit Bledsoe's YPA is higher than many others but I'm hoping that the max protect scheme used last season actually encouraged more deep passing attempts. That was all the defense was permitting so the pass rush had a chance to get to him. We'll see.