Confused with Jerry jones' Actions

[craig71]

Yes, Miami did put a time limit on the process. That does not mean that you should hire the O -Coord before the HC. Just means you need to get the HC in place ahead of schedule. From day one, Wade had no say over his OC. Even the least logical person would see that it opens the door for problems donwn the road.

It's a valid point that the head coach should have been hired before an assistant.Unfortunately it didn't work out that way.Although personaly I think Wade is just what he is regardless of his surroundings.

There is also the possibility that Jerry talked to both Wade and Norv about Garrett before bringing Garrett onboard.

Craig

 

[Dough Boy]

Jerry said he talked with Wade about Jason Garrett. Do I think Wade can over ride Garrett on a play call? Yes I think Wade can and does at points in the game say we need to run to keep the clock going but play by play no Wade is not going to call the offense no more than Andy Reid calls the defense but yes as HC he does have a say in what we are doing and what he wants to see in a given situation

Andy Reid recommended the late Jim Johnson be hired as his DC and I do believe that if Reid had a problem with one of his calls he would over rule him. It was clear that Johnson was a Reid guy. Its not clear to me that Garret is a Wade guy.

Again, just my opinion, I don't think Wade has the intestinal fortitude to over rule a Garret call. I think Wade has no say in the play calling.

Dooms, I respect you a lot, but if you think Wade would over rule Garret you and I are at such distances that we will never get to the same area code on this one. I agree to disagree.

 

[Doomsday101]

Andy Reid recommended the late Jim Johnson be hired as his DC and I do believe that if Reid had a problem with one of his calls he would over rule him. It was clear that Johnson was a Reid guy. Its not clear to me that Garret is a Wade guy.

Again, just my opinion, I don't think Wade has the intestinal fortitude to over rule a Garret call. I think Wade has no say in the play calling.

Dooms, I respect you a lot, but if you think Wade would over rule Garret you and I are at such distances that we will never get to the same area code on this one. I agree to disagree.

So if Wade felt we were up by 2 score and wanted Garrett to start killing the clock Wade would have no say it that? How about 4th and 1 does Wade say go or Garrett? Being his guy or not as you said does not take away from the duty the HC has and is responsible for. I'm sure Jimmy Johnson did not tell Norv what plays to call but in a given situation yes would have a major say and yes I think Wade has that same type of say. Play by play? no but given situations as well as before the game when the coaching staff is putting together that weeks game plan and meeting about what they want to do.

 

[Dough Boy]

It's a valid point that the head coach should have been hired before an assistant.Unfortunately it didn't work out that way.Although personaly I think Wade is just what he is regardless of his surroundings.

There is also the possibility that Jerry talked to both Wade and Norv about Garrett before bringing Garrett onboard.

Craig

Why would Jerry need Garret if he hired Norv. Garret is a Norv diciple. Is is possible that Jerry could have had the conversation. Yes. Did he... I don't know. I'm just saying from the start, Dallas had the cart before the horse on this one. Sometimes its ok to break the rules... When you do, you need to get it right. Did we get this one right. I don't know.

 

[Dough Boy]

So if Wade felt we were up by 2 score and wanted Garrett to start killing the clock Wade would have no say it that? How about 4th and 1 does Wade say go or Garrett? Being his guy or not as you said does not take away from the duty the HC has and is responsible for. I'm sure Jimmy Johnson did not tell Norv what plays to call but in a given situation yes would have a major say and yes I think Wade has that same type of say. Play by play? no but given situations as well as before the game when the coaching staff is putting together that weeks game plan and meeting about what they want to do.

If you think Jimmy Johnson and Norv are comparable to Wade and Garret then we are in a different country and not just time zone. Jimmy ran this team with an iron fist that Wade could only dream of having. Jimmy had a strong hand in all aspects of Dallas. Even personel. To compare the two is a dis-service to Jimmy. Wade runs the D. Garret runs the O. Jimmy ran the team. Norv had free rein to call his play, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts that if Jimmy wanted to be more run focused he would have a strong word for Norv.

After the Packers game, Wade said, "I wish we would have ran the ball more." No way Jimmy makes that quote.

 

[Doomsday101]

If you think Jimmy Johnson and Norv and comparable to Wade and Garret then we are in a different country and not just time zone. Jimmy ran this team with an iron fist that only Wade could dream of. Jimmy had a strong hand in all aspects of Dallas. Even personel. To compare the two is a dis-service to Jimmy. Wade runs the D. Garret runs the O. Jimmy ran the team. Norv had free rein to call his play, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts that if Jimmy wanted to be more run focused he would have a strong word for Norv.

After the Packers game, Wade said, "I wish we would have ran the ball more." No way Jimmy makes that quote.

Jimmy delegated to the OC and DC he did not call plays that is the plain fact. Of course Jimmy was the HC and yes he had a say but even Norv and Dave Wannstead have said there were nights they were at Valley Ranch and Jimmy was with is girlfriend Rhonda. Jimmy is and was a motivator he was not calling plays and if you don't buy that I'm sorry but it is the truth of the matter.

 

[Dough Boy]

Jimmy delegated to the OC and DC he did not call plays that is the plain fact. Of course Jimmy was the HC and yes he had a say but even Norv and Dave Wannstead have said there were nights they were at Valley Ranch and Jimmy was with is girlfriend Rhonda. Jimmy is and was a motivator he was not calling plays and if you don't buy that I'm sorry but it is the truth of the matter.

You are missing my point.

Both guys had free rein to implement Jimmy's strategy, not there own. Garret is running his own strategy. Wade has said a few times this year, he wish we ran the ball more. Jimmy would never say that because Norv based his play calling on Jimmy's strategy.

 

[Doomsday101]

You are missing my point.

Both guys had free rein to implement Jimmy's strategy, not there own. Garret is running his own strategy. Wade has said a few times this year, he wish we ran the ball more. Jimmy would never say that because Norv based his play calling on Jimmy's strategy.

I have heard other coaches saying they wish they could have done this or that after a game where they lost there are alot of things coaches and players wish they could have done different. I wish we could have done a better job of running last week but the Giants running a lot of zone blitz really was taking that away. As I said I don't think Wade is telling Jason what to call play by play neither did Jimmy Johnson he did not tell Norv what he was going to run but yes in situations yes he had the say as a HC and yes Wade has that say as well.

By the way that was Norv stratagy not Jimmy Johnson, Aikman talked about Norv and his offense which was his offense

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I have heard other coaches saying they wish they could have done this or that after a game where they lost there are alot of things coaches and players wish they could have done different. I wish we could have done a better job of running last week but the Giants running a lot of zone blitz really was taking that away. As I said I don't think Wade is telling Jason what to call play by play neither did Jimmy Johnson he did not tell Norv what he was going to run but yes in situations yes he had the say as a HC and yes Wade has that say as well.

By the way that was Norv stratagy not Jimmy Johnson, Aikman talked about Norv and his offense which was his offense

I'm pretty sure that if Jimmy thought they needed to run the ball more in a game, that Norv would act accordingly

I don't think Wade has any say in what Garrett does, and can't have him make in-game adjustments

afterall, Garrett is Assistant HC

that wouldn't fly with Jimmy

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm pretty sure that if Jimmy thought they needed to run the ball more in a game, that Norv would act accordingly

I don't think Wade has any say in what Garrett does and can't have him make in-game adjustments

afterall, Garrett is Assistant HC

that wouldn't fly with Jimmy

and I think differently and the assistant HC lable is not HC. As for Jimmy as I said and he has said he delegated and his OC and DC ran their units if you did not do a good job such as David Shula you got fired but Norv ran his offense the same kind of offense he is still running today

 

[Bob Sacamano]

and I think differently and the assistant HC lable is not HC. As for Jimmy as I said and he has said he delegated and his OC and DC ran their units if you did not do a good job such as David Shula you got fired but Norv ran his offense the same kind of offense he is still running today

so if Norv was doing something that wasn't working during a game, you don't think Jimmy would insist that he try something different? pull rank, if you will?

btw, assistant HC isn't like a backup QB, they don't wait and do nothing until the HC is taken out by injury

it's not just a title

 

[cowboyed]

Jerry said Ogeltree should get more playing time the week leading up to the Eagles game. That game, Ogletree had his most extensive playing time to date.

It was also reported that Wade wanted Ogletree in on those screens so this only adds credence to Jerry repeating what is discussed by the coaches, more specifically the head coach. By the way as a GM Jerry is in his perfect right to discuss player acquisition and game participation. That doesn't mean that he instructs the coaches to do so.

 

[Dough Boy]

I'm pretty sure that if Jimmy thought they needed to run the ball more in a game, that Norv would act accordingly

I don't think Wade has any say in what Garrett does, and can't have him make in-game adjustments

afterall, Garrett is Assistant HC

that wouldn't fly with Jimmy

This is all I've being saying. I agree 100%.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

whoever said that Jerry is just parroting what the coaches already came to a conclusion about are right

 

[Doomsday101]

so if Norv was doing something that wasn't working during a game, you don't think Jimmy would insist that he try something different? pull rank, if you will?

btw, assistant HC isn't like a backup QB, they don't wait and do nothing until the HC is taken out by injury

it's not just a title

Assistant HC is not the HC not sure what part of that you don't get. Last time I checked Garrett is not taking the heat at press conferance Wade is. Sorry Yes I think Wade can over ride what they plan on doing and is the one when a final call needs to be made is the one making it. Play by play no just as Reid is not telling his DC what to call as far as Offense I think we all know who calls the plays in Philly.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Assistant HC is not the HC not sure what part of that you don't get. Last time I checked Garrett is not taking the heat at press conferance Wade is. Sorry Yes I think Wade can over ride what they plan on doing and is the one when a final call needs to be made is the one making it. Play by play no just as Reid is not telling his DC what to call as far as Offense I think we all know who calls the plays in Philly.

what does assistant HC mean to you?

do you think he just fetches the HC water? handles his phone calls? writes his PC speeches? or maybe you think it's a Saddam Hussein-type body double deal?

and I said nothing about play-by-play control

 

[Doomsday101]

what does assistant HC mean to you?

do you think he just fetches the HC water? handles his phone calls? writes his PC speeches? or maybe you think it's a Saddam Hussein-type body double deal?

and I said nothing about play-by-play control

It means he is under the HC yet higher up the ladder than the assistant coaches.

Hell New Orleans has Payton has the HC and their LB coach Joe Vitt is the assistant HC does this mean Payton has no say over what they do on defense? Greg Williams is the DC and his assistant is the assistant HC? I would think because they are wanting to keep that coach from being picked up is one reason they name a coach as an assistant HC but by no means does that mean he is running the show.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

It means he is under the HC yet higher up the ladder than the assistant coaches.

Hell New Orleans has Payton has the HC and their LB coach Joe Vitt is the assistant HC does this mean Payton has no say over what they do on defense? Greg Williams is the DC and his assistant is the assistant HC? I would think because they are wanting to keep that coach from being picked up is one reason they name a coach as an assistant HC but by no means does that mean he is running the show.

I don't think he's running the show, but I think he has complete autonomy to run his offense

esp considering Wade calls all the D plays

that doesn't happen under Jimmy IMO

 

[Hostile]

You and I are on the same page bro. I'm no Jerry basher. I'm no Jerry apologist either. I'm just a simple guy that loves the Dallas Cowboys. In my mind, Jerry is a great owner and a good GM. He just needs a HC that deserves to the walk sidelines in the shadow of Landry.

That's why it cracks me up when I get called a homer by the CRAP guys. I simply don't buy their superstitions and they can't take it so they go from zero to hyperbole in 4.58 seconds.

 

[Doomsday101]

Oh my God Bill Belicheck must not be running things because Dante Scarnecchia the Offensive line coach is the assistant HC, not the OC not the DC but the line coach is the one named as the Assistant HC so I guess he can do what he wants and takes orders from no one?