Favre vs. Bledsoe

[kartr]

Yawn.

So Bledsoe has played a 1,000 years.

Yep. Most of his career he's been average at best. Last year he was the 17th ranked starter in the NFL.

Let's do the math...

Hmm. 32 teams... and he ranked 17th... Hmm.

OK.

You've convinced me.

He's below average.

Thanks for playing.

On point, plus, McNabb, Culpepper,Bulger,Pennington were all injured and A. Brooks had an unusually bad year, so if those guys had had their normal year, then Bledsoe would have finished 22nd, and with a good team around him.

 

[kartr]

should not even be a poll, Bledsoe is average QB, Favre a superstar.

Exactly. You win the prize.

 

[dbair1967]

Farve is a winner . Farve makes a team better and Bledsoe held the Pats and Bills back. With the personnel we had last year, Farve would have gotten us to the playoffs even though he threw more ints.

I dont know what rock you've been hiding under, but Favre is terrible right now...he's one of the worst starting QB's in football and his skills have been eroding steradily for several seasons...he's also had several of the worst postseason games ever for a QB

I dotn see how Bledsoe held the Pats back, when he did get them to the super bowl once and played a role in the AFC Championship game of a 2nd they went to

the Bills are one of the laughingstock organizations in football right now, so saying Bledsoe (or any other single player) "held" them back is comical...that is a poorly run franchise from top to bottom

David

 

[kartr]

I voted "Fave slightly better". Please allow me to explain my position.

If you look at the stats Favre has a considerable and undenaible edge, 3 MVP's and a SB is the equivalent of 1-2-3 pin if it were wrestling. But I think you need to look beyond the #'s some.

For me, the situation a QB finds himself can be as critical as his own talent level. A few examples, would Steve Young be a hall of fame member if Tampa had held on to him and not sent him to San Fran? Would Joe Montana be talked about as among the very greatest to play the game if he had been drafted in the 2nd round by say, the Bears instead of by Bill Walsh and the 49ers? Would Aikman be taking the stroll to the hall this year if JJ had hired Barry Switzer out of the chute instead of Jimmy Johnson? You tell me. You could make a pretty good list of this stuff.

My point is show me a hall of fame QB and I'll show you a hall of fame coach and some impressive talent around him. Both Favre and Bledsoe have failed to reach their true potentials (Favre to a lesser degree) for precisely the same reasons- they lost their quality leadership. In Favre's case Mike Holgren moved on after the 1998 season and took away the guy that kept Brett's gambling instinct's in check, and Ron Wolf, one of the league's greatest GM's left after the 2001 season. Mike Sherman isn't the coach Holmgren was for Brett and he was no Ron Wolf as a GM. Brett was still a good player but not the same superstar he had been. Favre's career has kind of a Mickey Mantle feel to it- great but "what if", you know?

With Bledsoe, the situation is even more striking. IMO if Bill Parcells had been allowed to "buy the groceries" in NE when Bob Kraft took over the team and had decided to stay, it's quite possible NE's dynasty would have arrived several years earlier and Tom Brady might be known best in the context of a Drew Henson trivia question. Parcells has said repeatedly that when he got there NE was in by far the worst shape of any team he has been with. In truth although he brought the 96 Patriots to the SB it was not yet a great team, but he was getting closer. GB was a great team. If Bledsoe and Parcells been on the other side of the field with GB and Favre on NE, the results of the game would probably have been the same- GB winning. But then BP left and took with him Curtis Martin and Bledsoe lost his mentor and his running game. The steady improvement Bledsoe had shown to that point stagnated and the talk of him being one of the all time greats quieted. Pete Carroll was no Parcells but the even bigger issue was Bobby Grier drafted like Jerry Jones. Even more so than Favre because of his lack of mobility Bledsoe requires a strong supporting cast. But as we saw last season with Favre, all quarterbacks need help to succeed.

The bottom line for me is Favre was the better player, but IF Parcells and Bledsoe had stayed together I believe Bledsoe would have similar stats and probably more rings to what Favre has accomplished. Of course if Holmgren and Wolf had stayed in GB, Favre might well be thought of as the best ever.

That's one reason why I think people that have the urge to dump on Bledsoe should remember- he and Parcells make a pretty good team. We're a great draft away from being a very dangerous team.

Dream about Bledsoe. With Parcells last year, he lost 4-5 games by himself. Seattle,Oakland, the first Washington game,Denver and in the second Giants and Commanders games, he was pathetic. Vinny could have done as much.

 

[dbair1967]

Exactly. You win the prize.

>>>Originally Posted by CactusCowboy
should not even be a poll, Bledsoe is average QB, Favre a superstar. <<<

actually its a stupid poll, but Favre isnt a superstar anymore...right now he is just some mediocre player than has held on too long that the media cant shut up about...

Favre is one of the worst starters in football...Bledsoe wasnt better than Favre 7 or 8yrs ago, but right now he is

David

 

[kartr]

I agree some people I think want to wish Bledsoe better than he is...and make excuses like had he had Parcells or this or that..etc.. same could be said about any QB like Farve had he had Sterling Sharp and Mike Holgrem and a etc., etc. ad nausem... I mean really who did Sammy Baugh have to throw to...

it is a joke as Bledsoe always needs "if's" to quantify his whole career... and we have heard them all...

IF he had an offensive line
IF he had a Te
IF he had a WR
IF he had had a second WR
IF he had had a third WR
IF he had had a Running back
IF he had had a good Head Coach
IF he had had a good offensive coordinator
etc.,etc.

poor, poor Bledsoe...uke:


man just think about how good every QB could be with perfect conditions...

If he had a brain.:laugh2:

 

[dbair1967]

Dream about Bledsoe. With Parcells last year, he lost 4-5 games by himself. Seattle,Oakland, the first Washington game,Denver and in the second Giants and Commanders games, he was pathetic. Vinny could have done as much.

I see troll boy is back in full force

how exactly did Bledsoe cause the loss to Oakland or Washington the first time? Wasnt the defense on the field when we lost to Denver?

I know it makes you crap your diapers to hear, but Bledsoe is the best QB we've had since Aikman...Vinny was a mediocre QB...Quincy Carter was a lousy freaking QB with a drug problem...Ryan Leaf was a bad signing...Anthony Wright was a 3rd stringer trying to play...Randall Cunngingham was washed up

you should join forces with Nors troll wherever he is and infect somebody else's forum with your constant wetdreams for Q-bong and hatred of anyone else who plays QB here

David

 

[kartr]

Favre has had FIVE seasons with more than 20 INTs, 4 of those seasons were 23 or more INTs. And who can forget the 29 picks he threw last year!

Bledsoe has only had TWO seasons of 20+ INTs: 27 INTs in his 2nd year and 21 INTs in '99.

Why does Favre always seem to get a free pass...its mind boggling.:bang2:

Cause he's a championship qb and Bledsoe is not even a playoff qb anymore, at least not the last 7-8 years. I would take even the has-been Farve over Bledsoe, at least we'd have a fighting chance and we know that TO would respect Farve.

 

[dbair1967]

Cause he's a championship qb and Bledsoe is not even a playoff qb anymore, at least not the last 7-8 years. I would take even the has-been Farve over Bledsoe, at least we'd have a fighting chance and we know that TO would respect Farve.

yeah, Bledsoe has all sorts of 6 interception playoff games in his days career he?

oh wait, no that was Favre vs the Rams a few years ago...Favre has had so many multi-pick playoff games its absolutely comical

right now he is one of the worst starters in football...I dont love Bledsoe, he is what he is..but right now he is a better player than Favre

David

 

[Billy Bullocks]

yeah, Bledsoe has all sorts of 6 interception playoff games in his days career he?

oh wait, no that was Favre vs the Rams a few years ago...Favre has had so many multi-pick playoff games its absolutely comical

right now he is one of the worst starters in football...I dont love Bledsoe, he is what he is..but right now he is a better player than Favre

David

Favre 10 years ago was amazing. He had an aura of invincibility, as did the Packers especially at Lambeau. Lets not forget that Brett Favre bascially wins the SB because of Desmond Howard. It's that simple. Reggie White and Desmond Howard had a much bigger impact on that game than Favre ever did.

Brett Favre, like any other QB, needs a good supporting cast. He hasn't been "invincible" in a while now...and when he was, he had Levens (a top 3 back at the time), Brooks and Freeman at WR, a GREAT Offensive Line, Mark Chmura(love him or hate him, he was a pretty solid TE)...and a defense that was more than stouts, from teh secondary up to the front 4. It's not like Favre took an average team and made them great, the team was already great.

When History looks back at the 2, Favre will be considered better. Dont get me wrong, Favre is a very good QB...his success in his prime doesn't lie. RIGHT NOW! Bledsoe seems to have more left in the tank, makes smarter decisions, and is a better option to start. Favre is a shadow of his former self. And that's a fact.

10 years ago, Favre>Bledsoe
Now, Bledsoe >(slightly) Favre

 

[Hostile]

What part of career vs. career is not sinking in?

:laugh2:

 

[kartr]

I dont know what rock you've been hiding under, but Favre is terrible right now...he's one of the worst starting QB's in football and his skills have been eroding steradily for several seasons...he's also had several of the worst postseason games ever for a QB

I dotn see how Bledsoe held the Pats back, when he did get them to the super bowl once and played a role in the AFC Championship game of a 2nd they went to

the Bills are one of the laughingstock organizations in football right now, so saying Bledsoe (or any other single player) "held" them back is comical...that is a poorly run franchise from top to bottom

David

So last year it was Farve's fault that Ahman Green was hurt, Javon Walker was hurt, 2 free agency losses on the O-line, a crack pot for a head coach/gm. I too think people take on over Farve too much, but there's no question, he has been a great qb overall and so much fun to watch and he doesn't blame all of his teammates when things go south. Bledsoe has been run off from two fine football franchises with winning histories. Bledsoe had only Flozell hurt last year and everyone is making excuses for him. The year before, Vinny only Julius for half a year, Terry Glenn for a half, a nearly lame Keyshawn and Patrick Crayton to throw to and a porous defense, yet many here trash Vinny as if he was nothing. Bledsoe has never played on a truly bad team, he's had Curtis Martin and Travis Henry and Willis McGahee and now Julius Jones to take the pressure off him and he still can't get to the playoffs.

 

[kartr]

The Apocolypse is upon us. I never thought you and I would agree on QBs.

I've always liked athletic qb's and can't stand immobile pure pocket passers. Elway,Cunningham,Young,Montana,McNabb are my types of qbs. I believe that the evolution of game dictates that mobile passers are the future of NFL. Guys like Brady are the exception, not the rule. I learned to respect Farve when Charles Haley hit him in the mouth and bloodied him, then he got up off the carpet and threw 4 more tds. He is the competitor supreme, even though his gunslinger tendencies get him into trouble, but to me, it's Bledsoe's hesitancy that gets him into trouble. Couple that with a lack of mobility and you get a bridesmaid for a qb. To me, you always have a chance with the thrower/runners.

 

[kartr]

>>>Originally Posted by CactusCowboy
should not even be a poll, Bledsoe is average QB, Favre a superstar. <<<

actually its a stupid poll, but Favre isnt a superstar anymore...right now he is just some mediocre player than has held on too long that the media cant shut up about...

Favre is one of the worst starters in football...Bledsoe wasnt better than Favre 7 or 8yrs ago, but right now he is

David

Bledsoe is just marginally better than Vinny right now. He benefitted from a much talented team last year. Bledsoe's age is the only thing that makes him better than Vinny right now. As for Farve, yes his skills are declining, but the lack of talent around him was the major culprit for his failings last year. Bledsoe's inopportune turnovers is what caused us to miss the playoffs last year while Brett would have had a blast playing with our team last year cause we would have been playing Seattle for the NFC title instead of watching the likes of Chris Simms and Kyle Orton lead their teams to the playoffs. Ironic isn't it, even wet behind the ear rookies and third year pups can get their teams to the playoffs,but the not the great Bledsoe.

 

[Hostile]

I've always liked athletic qb's and can't stand immobile pure pocket passers. Elway,Cunningham,Young,Montana,McNabb are my types of qbs. I believe that the evolution of game dictates that mobile passers are the future of NFL. Guys like Brady are the exception, not the rule. I learned to respect Farve when Charles Haley hit him in the mouth and bloodied him, then he got up off the carpet and threw 4 more tds. He is the competitor supreme, even though his gunslinger tendencies get him into trouble, but to me, it's Bledsoe's hesitancy that gets him into trouble. Couple that with a lack of mobility and you get a bridesmaid for a qb. To me, you always have a chance with the thrower/runners.

You just described Drew Henson and you can't stand him.

 

[kartr]

yeah, Bledsoe has all sorts of 6 interception playoff games in his days career he?

oh wait, no that was Favre vs the Rams a few years ago...Favre has had so many multi-pick playoff games its absolutely comical

right now he is one of the worst starters in football...I dont love Bledsoe, he is what he is..but right now he is a better player than Favre

David

Farve was a top 6 qb in the NFc with no receivers or RBs and a crappy head coach. With good rbs and wrs and a hall of fame head coach, Bledsoe couldn't get his team to the playoffs, and that's with McNabb and Culpepper and Bulger missing almost the whole year with injuries. What'll be his excuse next year when he fails yet again?

 

[Billy Bullocks]

Farve was a top 6 qb in the NFc with no receivers or RBs and a crappy head coach. With good rbs and wrs and a hall of fame head coach, Bledsoe couldn't get his team to the playoffs, and that's with McNabb and Culpepper and Bulger missing almost the whole year with injuries. What'll be his excuse next year when he fails yet again?

Boy, I love your optimism.

What exactly did Bledsoe personally do that resulted in missing the playoffs yet again? Look at it without putting it all on Bledsoe, who played quite admirably for most of the season. Was Bledsoe the one who went out and decided that Rob Pettiti was sufficient at RT. Was Bledsoe the one that thought, hey, let me roll onto Flozell Adams leg and really see what this Pettiti kid is made of? Bledsoe decided to let Santana Moss burn us twice in teh last 2 minutes. Bledsoe missed key field goals over and over? That's ridiculous.

On point, plus, McNabb, Culpepper,Bulger,Pennington were all injured and A. Brooks had an unusually bad year, so if those guys had had their normal year, then Bledsoe would have finished 22nd, and with a good team around him.

And these guys would only push Bledsoe down? Favre would have outperformed each and every one of them?

Dream about Bledsoe. With Parcells last year, he lost 4-5 games by himself. Seattle,Oakland, the first Washington game,Denver and in the second Giants and Commanders games, he was pathetic. Vinny could have done as much.

I dont think he lost Seattle...that was desperation, dumb, but not his fault. Kickers are supposed to make 23 yard FG's. He lost the Denver game? He made 1 bad play, the pick to Bailey. He lost the 1st Washington game? That's just stupid. The 2nd Commanders game...you're willing to put that ENTIRE game on him?

Honestly, you raise some really good points, and I agree, Bledsoe over his career can't touch Favre over his career. Favre was far more dynamic. But for every intelligent point you bring up, you say something like the above. Which is completely ridiculous and just plain wrong.

 

[Crown Royal]

Bledsoe is just marginally better than Vinny right now. He benefitted from a much talented team last year. Bledsoe's age is the only thing that makes him better than Vinny right now. As for Farve, yes his skills are declining, but the lack of talent around him was the major culprit for his failings last year. Bledsoe's inopportune turnovers is what caused us to miss the playoffs last year while Brett would have had a blast playing with our team last year cause we would have been playing Seattle for the NFC title instead of watching the likes of Chris Simms and Kyle Orton lead their teams to the playoffs. Ironic isn't it, even wet behind the ear rookies and third year pups can get their teams to the playoffs,but the not the great Bledsoe.

Oh come on. Favre's career has been much better than Bledsoe's, but Bledsoe's has been much better than Vinny Testaverde's. Let's not get ridiculous - Bledsoe had essentially the same offense last season as Testaverde did 2 years ago (including a WORSE offensive line) and still did much, MUCH better than Testaverde. That comment was outrageous.

 

[Billy Bullocks]

Oh come on. Favre's career has been much better than Bledsoe's, but Bledsoe's has been much better than Vinny Testaverde's. Let's not get ridiculous - Bledsoe had essentially the same offense last season as Testaverde did 2 years ago (including a WORSE offensive line) and still did much, MUCH better than Testaverde. That comment was outrageous.

I've read some ridiuclous things involving this argument, but what you stated about Vinny T sums it up. You are absolutely right. Bledsoe is so much better than Testaverde it's not even funny. Vinny T is a career loser. Before you guys go over board, lets remind ourselves that Bledsoe has gotten his team to teh SB twice. Vinny T can't say that.

And again, if Desmond Howard and Reggie White don't turn in the type of perfomances they did in SB XXXI, this debate probably doesn't happen, and Favre goes down as another Marino.

 

[Screw The Hall]

It wasn't last year though, career vs. career.

Name a stat for their careers and Favre dominates him.

... and stats are only where the conversation about Favre's dominance begins with respect to Bledsoe. There in my opinion is an even wider gap between the two in terms of intangibles.

Throw out the Super Bowl victory Favre has for a sec, sometimes I think it blurrs his accomplishments as a whole. There were years that I didn't think the Packers had a shot at being very good and the team seemingly rode Favre's back to division title after division title.

I'll let the HOF settle this ( as much as it pains me to say so ) in a few years though because one guy gets in on the 1st ballot and the other isn't getting in at all.