Finding a Franchise QB

Look there's two quarterbacks in this draft could have Aaron Rodgers potential and Goff has one of the most unbelievable releases I've seen in a long time. it's time to take a chance we don't have to trade up to get our guy. This franchise has wee weed away so many number one picks over the years time to take a shot on one that can really make a difference. Enough said
 
Past is the past. All that matters is the present. No one knows the future or what it will bring. Listing those qb's and how they were obtained doesn't change that. If the Cowboys trust their scouts and their board, then go with that. If one of those qb's is their best option, ok. If not, ok.

As for our team around Romo, we are no where near the caliber on defense to compete with Seattle, Carolina or Arizona in the west. And the draft/free agency won't change that. Because those teams too will add players via that route.

And there in lies the biggest problem. Do you trust our scouting department to find a franchise QB or do you trust our QB coach to develop him into one.
I don't for sure and history is on my side...
 
That is an interesting hypothesis. I think Mariotta and Winston both had higher grades and more perceived food like upside when they were drafted than Wentz or Goff do currently.

Winston also could steal seafood like no other QB in history.
 
What is the ratio of success in drafting a successful 1st round QB to an average or mediocre or bust qb?

Again, look at the comprehensive link that I posted earlier. Extensive research done there for you.
 
I'm glad you think this is apples to apples, but a rookie defensive end or cornerback would pretty much start immediately and at least have the opportunity to help the team, whereas a rookie QB is riding the pine pony until Romo is done.

Who cares? What did the three first round talents do to help this team's fortunes in 2015?

We ended up getting the guy who was considered the best pass rusher in the 2015 draft and he ended the season with 0 sacks and a drug suspension.
 
And there in lies the biggest problem. Do you trust our scouting department to find a franchise QB or do you trust our QB coach to develop him into one.
I don't for sure and history is on my side...

So we will never draft a qb when Romo is the starter. Have fun when Romo suddenly retires, just as when Aikman retired (because of injury). It all worked out so well then.
 
Who cares? What did the three first round talents do to help this team's fortunes in 2015?

We ended up getting the guy who was considered the best pass rusher in the 2015 draft and he ended the season with 0 sacks and a drug suspension.

The quality of draft picks aren't determined simply by the productive of their rookie years.
 
So we will never draft a qb when Romo is the starter. Have fun when Romo suddenly retires, just as when Aikman retired (because of injury). It all worked out so well then.

We might have to hope that someone like a Dak Prescott will be our next Romo cause I think Jerry has made the decision not to draft one high
at least for a couple more years.
 
Just because the QB's on the OP's list won Superbowls does not make them franchise QB's. While the QB is very important, there are other factors to winning a Superbowl. Coaching and overall roster talent are just as important. A franchise QB can help to offset poor coaching(see Romo lifting Garrett) and offset lack of talent to some extent but if those aspects are really bad they will not win a Superbowl no matter how good the QB is (the Cowboys and Romo are a prime example). I would say Romo is much more of a franchise QB than Joe Flacco, Russel Wilson, & Brad Johnson (possibly Eli) could ever hope to be. Those guys were nowhere close to being franchise QB's but had good coaching and a good roster. Heck, you could even say Peyton Manning was nowhere close to being a franchise QB this year yet they still won because of a good roster and good coaching (that is not to say Peyton has not been a franchise QB up until this year).

Finding a franchise QB is very hard. You never know how superior college p;lay will translate into the NFL. Drafting a QB high is no way guarantees success although the best QB's are usually drafted high. The Cowboys were extremely lucky to have found Romo the way they did. Luck can play a huge role in finding a franchise QB as Romo, Brady, Kurt Warner prove but if a team doesn't have a good coach and a poor roster they will never win it all. The Cowboys have a good roster and a franchise QB but lack in the other area.
 
Just because the QB's on the OP's list won Superbowls does not make them franchise QB's. While the QB is very important, there are other factors to winning a Superbowl. Coaching and overall roster talent are just as important. A franchise QB can help to offset poor coaching(see Romo lifting Garrett) and offset lack of talent to some extent but if those aspects are really bad they will not win a Superbowl no matter how good the QB is (the Cowboys and Romo are a prime example). I would say Romo is much more of a franchise QB than Joe Flacco, Russel Wilson, & Brad Johnson (possibly Eli) could ever hope to be. Those guys were nowhere close to being franchise QB's but had good coaching and a good roster. Heck, you could even say Peyton Manning was nowhere close to being a franchise QB this year yet they still won because of a good roster and good coaching (that is not to say Peyton has not been a franchise QB up until this year).

Finding a franchise QB is very hard. You never know how superior college p;lay will translate into the NFL. Drafting a QB high is no way guarantees success although the best QB's are usually drafted high. The Cowboys were extremely lucky to have found Romo the way they did. Luck can play a huge role in finding a franchise QB as Romo, Brady, Kurt Warner prove but if a team doesn't have a good coach and a poor roster they will never win it all. The Cowboys have a good roster and a franchise QB but lack in the other area.

My point wasn't that all of them were franchise QBs. My point is that there are more ways to be ultimately successful in the NFL than drafting a guy high, and that if you actually look at it, the teams that perpetually put themselves in position to draft QBs usually end up in perpetual turmoil.

I think there is a lot of mythos involved in drafting players high. I think you can help your team better (especially when you already have a veteran franchise qb) by building your team around that player.
 
Just because the QB's on the OP's list won Superbowls does not make them franchise QB's. While the QB is very important, there are other factors to winning a Superbowl. Coaching and overall roster talent are just as important. A franchise QB can help to offset poor coaching(see Romo lifting Garrett) and offset lack of talent to some extent but if those aspects are really bad they will not win a Superbowl no matter how good the QB is (the Cowboys and Romo are a prime example). I would say Romo is much more of a franchise QB than Joe Flacco, Russel Wilson, & Brad Johnson (possibly Eli) could ever hope to be. Those guys were nowhere close to being franchise QB's but had good coaching and a good roster. Heck, you could even say Peyton Manning was nowhere close to being a franchise QB this year yet they still won because of a good roster and good coaching (that is not to say Peyton has not been a franchise QB up until this year).

Finding a franchise QB is very hard. You never know how superior college p;lay will translate into the NFL. Drafting a QB high is no way guarantees success although the best QB's are usually drafted high. The Cowboys were extremely lucky to have found Romo the way they did. Luck can play a huge role in finding a franchise QB as Romo, Brady, Kurt Warner prove but if a team doesn't have a good coach and a poor roster they will never win it all. The Cowboys have a good roster and a franchise QB but lack in the other area.

Agreed.

The Cowboys have had a "franchise" QB for about a decade now and have two playoff wins to show for it.

I'm beyond the point of thinking it's all about a "franchise" QB.
 
I'm glad you think this is apples to apples, but a rookie defensive end or cornerback would pretty much start immediately and at least have the opportunity to help the team, whereas a rookie QB is riding the pine pony until Romo is done.

If anyone wants to see a perfect example of a straw man argument, check out this post. You more or less argue against drafting a QB because of the risk associated with the position and the risk with the top two players at that position. I provide evidence that shows the risk is at least similar among other positions, and instead of responding to that, you decide to change your argument to something that has nothing to do with what I said.

As far as your new argument goes, we should not out weigh immediate production versus long term production. Shawne Merriman out produced DWare as a rookie and I'm pretty sure, most of us are fine with how their careers turned out. Aarron Rogers sat for 3 years, and I'm pretty sure the Packers do not wish they took someone else.

Neither of us know how any of these prospects will turn out in the long term, Goff/Wentz could be the next Ryan Leaf, just like Ramsey could be the next Morris Claiborne and Bosa could be the next Dion Jordon. And no one is claiming a QB should be picked no matter what, just it would be foolish to pass on a guy who the scouts say has franchise potential due to the silly reasoning that Romo will play 4-5 more years. If the scouts say Wentz and Goff are JAG prospects and Bosa will be a 10+ sack guy, obviously we take him. But there is literally no scenario where you pass on Goff/Wentz if your scouts are telling you they have franchise QB potential, without regretting it later.
 
Looks like you checked out after reading the list and didn't read the OP.

The fact that you have quarterbacks with multiple wins goes straight to my point, and my point about Peyton Manning and Drew Brees as Free Agent pick ups also goes straight to my point. Were they first round draft picks? Absolutely, but that is neither here nor there to the teams that signed them in free agency. Signing a QB in free agency doesn't mean you yourself have to draft a QB high to win, it means that the draft isn't the only place to get a franchise QB.

I don't believe for a second that your point is to point out how many different ways there is to acquire a QB. First of all, what does that matter? It's like pointing out how many liquids fit in your gas tank. You can do it but why would you? You had a specific point... how to get a Super Bowl caliber QB. I pointed out the holes in your argument and RXP independently pointed out the same holes in your argument. Being a franchise QB doesn't make that QB SB caliber, It's just means the team fully backs the guy. The goal should never be to find a franchise QB... that doesn't even get most teams in the playoffs. SB caliber is the key ingredient you are looking for... look at the past SB QBs to see what they mostly have in common... high draft pick stands out. There are freaks like Brady that gets drafted low and then proves the scouting reports wrong but there is no way (pre-draft) to discern that once in a generation type QB. Remember Brady was terrible in his combine performance overall. Brad Johnson had a killer defense as did the current version of Peyton Manning... as do most SB winning teams. Your list is bogus for making your point. Go back to the drawing board, Wylie Coyote. No Road Runner for you!
 
The odds say that any quarterback we draft right now is likely to be a bust.

Please explain these odds that suggest this.

because those same odds suggest Tony Romo will again be hurt and the team flounder at the bottom of the NFC East.

Of course I can't prove that any more than your absurd theory. But it sounded so legit.
 
Looks like you checked out after reading the list and didn't read the OP.

The fact that you have quarterbacks with multiple wins goes straight to my point, and my point about Peyton Manning and Drew Brees as Free Agent pick ups also goes straight to my point. Were they first round draft picks? Absolutely, but that is neither here nor there to the teams that signed them in free agency. Signing a QB in free agency doesn't mean you yourself have to draft a QB high to win, it means that the draft isn't the only place to get a franchise QB.

I get your point and theirs
They were still first rnd picks but you can buy one in free agency. The problem with buying one is they rarely hit the market until the end of their careers and they cost so much. Having a franchise QB under a rookie deal, even a top pick, is realatively inexpensive compared to free agents
But the fact remains that most franchise qb's are top picks. Now I think some of that is teams don't give young qb's time to develope but that's the nature of the league today. Personally I think more qb's could be developed if more teams took the time to develope them
 
If anyone wants to see a perfect example of a straw man argument, check out this post. You more or less argue against drafting a QB because of the risk associated with the position and the risk with the top two players at that position. I provide evidence that shows the risk is at least similar among other positions, and instead of responding to that, you decide to change your argument to something that has nothing to do with what I said.

As far as your new argument goes, we should not out weigh immediate production versus long term production. Shawne Merriman out produced DWare as a rookie and I'm pretty sure, most of us are fine with how their careers turned out. Aarron Rogers sat for 3 years, and I'm pretty sure the Packers do not wish they took someone else.

Neither of us know how any of these prospects will turn out in the long term, Goff/Wentz could be the next Ryan Leaf, just like Ramsey could be the next Morris Claiborne and Bosa could be the next Dion Jordon. And no one is claiming a QB should be picked no matter what, just it would be foolish to pass on a guy who the scouts say has franchise potential due to the silly reasoning that Romo will play 4-5 more years. If the scouts say Wentz and Goff are JAG prospects and Bosa will be a 10+ sack guy, obviously we take him. But there is literally no scenario where you pass on Goff/Wentz if your scouts are telling you they have franchise QB potential, without regretting it later.

If we didn't already have a QB you would be right, but we do have a QB.

All of these first round draft picks have their own risk involved, but when you combine risk and less contribution... It simply doesn't make sense.
 
I don't believe for a second that your point is to point out how many different ways there is to acquire a QB. First of all, what does that matter? It's like pointing out how many liquids fit in your gas tank. You can do it but why would you? You had a specific point... how to get a Super Bowl caliber QB. I pointed out the holes in your argument and RXP independently pointed out the same holes in your argument. Being a franchise QB doesn't make that QB SB caliber, It's just means the team fully backs the guy. The goal should never be to find a franchise QB... that doesn't even get most teams in the playoffs. SB caliber is the key ingredient you are looking for... look at the past SB QBs to see what they mostly have in common... high draft pick stands out. There are freaks like Brady that gets drafted low and then proves the scouting reports wrong but there is no way (pre-draft) to discern that once in a generation type QB. Remember Brady was terrible in his combine performance overall. Brad Johnson had a killer defense as did the current version of Peyton Manning... as do most SB winning teams. Your list is bogus for making your point. Go back to the drawing board, Wylie Coyote. No Road Runner for you!

Yes, ignore my point because it's inconvenient for your argument...

The list is no good? It's all the Super Bowl winners for over 10 years... The reality is that teams win SBs not just QBs.

You need to make this a good team, you don't need to throw the dice on a QB who may or may not be quality when the time comes.
 
Please explain these odds that suggest this.

because those same odds suggest Tony Romo will again be hurt and the team flounder at the bottom of the NFC East.

Of course I can't prove that any more than your absurd theory. But it sounded so legit.

The vast majority of 1st round quarterbacks do not become top 10 QBs in the NFL...

Romo has had non chronic injuries.

Yup same odds... /s
 
Yes, ignore my point because it's inconvenient for your argument...

The list is no good? It's all the Super Bowl winners for over 10 years... The reality is that teams win SBs not just QBs.

You need to make this a good team, you don't need to throw the dice on a QB who may or may not be quality when the time comes.

Ignore your point? I blew it out of the water so it no longer exists... so yeah, it's pretty easy to ignore because it was evaporated by my own. In what many people call the greatest team sport ever, nobody is saying QBs win championships all by themselves so stop pretending you were countering that argument. The old saying defense wins championships reigns true so your sudden realization of that reality is not news to your intended audience. You're not laying down new football dogma on the masses Einstein. Give it up.
 

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