First 39 Starts of career- Romo/Prescott

[HungryLion]

This.

You get what you pay for.

People keep saying "Dak is average but it could be worse!!! Remember how bad we were before Romo!!"

The reason we were so bad before Romo was because we didn't invest in the position.

Parcels was happy having veteran has beens as his QBs and we went cheap.

Before Romo, Aaron Rodgers was available among other good QBs that came into the league in those years but we were happy with the Drew Hensons and vinny Testaverdes of the world..

We are doing the same with Dak. Wasting time and the careers of some good players on a project. If you want a good QB, you're going to have to spend a premium. Tom Brady was an outlier... You can't go around in life hoping to get lucky. Most if not all of the top 15 QBs are first rounders for a reason!

I hate how this franchize under values the position.

I definitely agree with you on this.

It’s insane they haven’t drafted a first rounder since like what? 91 or whenever Walsh was taken?

It’s insane.

 

[G2]

I would have replaced Dak with Romo. winning streak or not. that was a financial/marketing decision as opposed to a football decision. that OL, that RB and Romo showed he can win a playoff game with that and if not for a catch, called a non catch, we would have beat GB. can't fight that.

Jerry/Stephen rode the dak wave to sell more jersey's and fill more seats..... now we are paying the price. that's the crux of the problem with Jerry for the past 25 years. we make marketing decisions not football decisions. Cooper is another example of marketing decision. less people going to stadium. jersey sales lagging. inject some hope, get them to come back. and when Dak jersey sales plummet and more people dont' show up, he will do something drastic, get rid of Dak and find another player and inject more hope....Jerry is really really really good in that.

Please stop. Romo showed that not only could he not win a playoff game, but that he could win games to get into the playoffs.

As far as the GB game I find it a little sad that fans still think it was a catch. And, that even if it was, it doesn't mean we win.
All the Romo-rooters claim Romo was in control of the offense and was calling the plays, changing them on and on. So why throw a 50/50 instead of getting a very short 1st down?

 

[mcmvp]

Threads from the diehard playe

None of what you argued was the point.

So thanks for your feedback anyway.

I also find it amusing. That we are now calling our offense the best supporting cast ever in 2016. When a large majority of the posters on this board want to fire the HC and OC and criticize the GM for being an idiot to trade for a wide receiver not worth of a first round pick, just 2 years later.

People use hyperbole to get their point across. Some may actually believe the extreme points they are making, but most are just exaggerating to make a point.

Was Dak’s supporting cast the best ever for a rook? Impossible question to answer since what is best to one is not to another. It’s subjective. That said, his cast was pretty damn good and deserves to be in the conversation of best supporting group for a rookie.

You have to remember that most QBs that started their rookie year were drafted by pretty bad teams. Dak wasn’t supposed to be the starter...injuries to Romo and the backup got him the job. The Cowboys had done a pretty damn good job of acquiring talent on the o-line leading up to that year. It was a situation well set up for Romo...who didn’t get the opportunity to see what he could’ve done with Zeke and that group.

So best ever supporting cast ever? Does it really matter if it was best, second best, 3rd best, etc? Point is he had it way better than the vast majority of rookie QBs

 

[DogFace]

OK.

List all the investments (draft picks or FA signings) in QBs we made after Aikman retired.
Then associate them with the investment other teams did at that position.

And we are talking about finding a starting QB. Not the investments for backups.

Then we will talk again about your found data and judge how this FO values the most important position in this game.

It’s more about how they’re hard to find.

Cleveland, for one, has invested a lot over many years. They may(maybe) finally have found one.

 

[Colombiacowboy]

A few notes:

* I was and will always be an ardent Romo Fanatic.
* Posting these to hopefully put into perspective our current qb
*Romo's first start happened mid season in year 3 of his career at the age of 26. Dak is still 25. These numbers represent the first 39 starts of their respective careers, not including playoffs.
*Romo's weapons were 2006- Owens + Glenn (both 1000 yards), Prime Witten, Crayton as 33rd wr, Barber and JJ (combined for 1800+ and 18tds) 2007- same minus Glenn, 2008- Mostly same, add Bennett, Felix jones, remove JJ.

*Dak's weapons in passing not close to what Romo was working with, Dak did have better OL at least one year and Zeke.
Romo- In a more wide open passing offense vs heavy run offense for Dak.



Romo

815 completions, 1280 attempts- 63.67% 10,300 yards, 8.0 YPA, 78 TDs, 43 Ints, 95 Rating, 63 sacks, 263 rush yards, 2 rush tds

Prescott

747 completions, 1155 attempts, 64.7%, 8408 yards, 7.3 ypa, 53 TDs, 21 ints, 94 rating, 80 sacks, 875 rush yards, 14 rush tds


My takeways: Dak's completion percentage is actually higher than Romo's. Does this mean Romo was inaccurate? More than twice the interceptions in about 100 more attempts, was Romo's "spatial awareness" still developing? Dak sacked at a much higher rate. 80 tds for Romo to 67 for Dak. Qb rating very similar.

Total yards: 10,563 for Romo. Dak, 9,283.

25 TD and 2000 passing yards difference...enough said

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

This is stupid..

How many times did Romo finish in the bottom half in passing in the NFL ?

How many times did his defense finish in the top 10?

With Romo , the offense was never the problem. It was the defense.

Since Dak has started, we have had a good defense and a bottom half passing attack.

It's like , people don't want to see the obvious.

I'll give you that the defenses weren't always great. But, Romo threw some costly INTs at the end of games or with the game on the line. Threw INTs that helped the other team get back into the game when the Cowboys were in control (Lions game for example.) So, it's not all on the defenses and the defense wasn't the only reason why the Cowboys lost some of those games,

Dak needs to improve on areas of his game. But, I'll still stand by how some Romo supporters who say that Dak supporters excuse Dak, also seem to excuse the team not making the Superbowl completely on the supporting cast. You say the offense was never the problem with Romo, when my point was how some have gone out to diminish the offensive supporting cast and weapons under Romo to avoid giving him any responsibility for the lack of Superbowl success.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

There is a big difference. Romo produced. Cowboys might not have won every game or won a Super Bowl but Romo did his part by throwing TD's and moving the team. Dak isn't producing. The amount of sub 200 yard games with 1td or less is disgusting. Yardage does matter even if it doesnt result in TD cause you get your team more field goal attempts and you keep your defense fresh. No one is perfect and mistakes will happen. Both Dak and Romo have made mistakes but Dak does not produce.

Romo produces but didn't produce enough to help get his teams to the Superbowl. Which is my point of how Romo supporters make excuses for Romo, just like Dak supporters make excuses for Dak.

 

[Little Jr]

Huh? The things people say couldn't be more different.

Lol you would be surprised. I can't remember what member it was or I would tag him but he posted some old Romo threads a few moths ago. They were a lot of the same things being said about Dak now.

Since I was one of the ones defending Romo for 10 years it didn't shock me because I remembered all the things that was said about Romo. When I started having to defend Dak last year it was dejavu(sp?) And Romo 2.0. Lol. If I had time I'd go look the thread up but Friday my son plays football so I don't have the time right now. You can if you want or maybe I'll will in the next couple of days.

 

[risco]

OK. But I think the data is skewed by Dak's amazing 2016 season which was pretty much a dream season for him. Everything fell into place for him.

If you take out 2016 stats for Dak then you probably see what he really is. A very average QB.

But why would you take 2016 out? Those game are part of his first 39. Taking them out will skew the data.

 

[BoysForLife]

You're not making a realistic or fair comparison.
Owens only played 6 games with Bledsoe in 2006.
It's hard to have a convo with fans who like to claim other fans' "don't understand" yet make irrelevant statements.

I know he only played 10 games with Romo in 06, and his production went up 40% vs what he was producing with Bledsoe.

Admittedly a small sample size in 06 with both QB but I would think you could make an argument that an established NFL starter who had been in the league for years, should ahve been able to produce a lot quicker with an established star receiver, than a guy taking his first real snaps in the league.

But that wasn't the case. Fact is, the wet behind the ears unproven kid clicked with TO a lot quicker than Bledsoe did.

 

[BoysForLife]

But why would you take 2016 out? Those game are part of his first 39. Taking them out will skew the data.

That's absolutely accurate. The first 39 games are the first 39 games. Taking out the outliers, whether good or bad, nullifies the whole point of the comparison. I agree with you on that.

That said--I think it's absolutely legitimate to note trends and be either encouraged or concerned about them, depending on the trend.
And Dak is on a downward trend over the past 15-18 games. Can the trend be reversed? Time will tell.

But people who claim concern about Dak based on his recent body of work, aren't making things up out of whole cloth, imo.

 

[BoysForLife]

What do you mean of course he did. He and TO bumped heads Romo cried to daddy Jones and Jones released him. If Romo were a man they would of hashed it out. Knowing he's been a 1,000 yard wr for him it was short sighted for him and might have damaged his own career.

I might be more inclined to entertain the possibility you are describing (Romo unfairly telling Jerry to cut him), if TO didn't have a terrible ending to every other team he played for the NFL.
Realistically, the book on TO is this:

Amazingly talented receiver. Deserving of being in the HOF. And a guy that no one could stand to have around after while because of all the extra baggage.
If (and I'm red typing, boldfacing, italicizing, underlining and capitalizing the word IF) Romo wanted him gone, then all I can say is, Romo and the Cowboys felt the same way as every other QB and team that TO ever played with.

I'm not trying to "slam" to or cover for Romo. Just calling it accurately. Everyone felt the same about the guy. For pete's sake, Hugh Douglas nearly beat TO unconscious in the locker room on his way out of Philly, things got so bad there....

 

[Philmonroe]

better than the recent thread comparing Dak to Quincy Carter, what was that about? (although I have a suspicion)

Your suspicion is lazy and isn't even true for an easy reason.

 

[G2]

I know he only played 10 games with Romo in 06, and his production went up 40% vs what he was producing with Bledsoe.

Admittedly a small sample size in 06 with both QB but I would think you could make an argument that an established NFL starter who had been in the league for years, should ahve been able to produce a lot quicker with an established star receiver, than a guy taking his first real snaps in the league.

But that wasn't the case. Fact is, the wet behind the ears unproven kid clicked with TO a lot quicker than Bledsoe did.

You can paint it whatever color you want, if it's not apples to apples it's not a fair comparison. Why don't we compare Romo/TO numbers to QBs that actually threw him the ball an entire season?

 

[BoysForLife]

You can paint it whatever color you want, if it's not apples to apples it's not a fair comparison. Why don't we compare Romo/TO numbers to QBs that actually threw him the ball an entire season?

Please do. Here's what you'll find:

TO, at 34 years old in 2007, had his 2nd best season of his entire career. Ended up only 96 yards short of his all time best single season yardage total. Had the 2nd most # of TD's in a single season for his whole career. Had his highest yards per catch average of his entire career.

34 is over the hill for an NFL receiver. That's on the downside of your career for a receiver.
And he had the 2nd best year of his storied career.

I'll wait for your next reason this comparison is skewed in Romo's favor.

 

[Hennessy_King]

I might be more inclined to entertain the possibility you are describing (Romo unfairly telling Jerry to cut him), if TO didn't have a terrible ending to every other team he played for the NFL.
Realistically, the book on TO is this:

Amazingly talented receiver. Deserving of being in the HOF. And a guy that no one could stand to have around after while because of all the extra baggage.
If (and I'm red typing, boldfacing, italicizing, underlining and capitalizing the word IF) Romo wanted him gone, then all I can say is, Romo and the Cowboys felt the same way as every other QB and team that TO ever played with.

I'm not trying to "slam" to or cover for Romo. Just calling it accurately. Everyone felt the same about the guy. For pete's sake, Hugh Douglas nearly beat TO unconscious in the locker room on his way out of Philly, things got so bad there....

Actually TO gave hugh douglas that sauce and called McNabb out after Hugh walked out. Steve young didn't want TO gone and shocker he's the best QB TO played with. Not for nothing garcia, mcnabb, romo none of them are up to Steve Young's level.

 

[BoysForLife]

Actually TO gave hugh douglas that sauce and called McNabb out after Hugh walked out. Steve young didn't want TO gone and shocker he's the best QB TO played with. Not for nothing garcia, mcnabb, romo none of them are up to Steve Young's level.

I heard Douglas had TO on his knees begging for mercy, after making Hugh TWO sandwiches.....

 

[uvaballa]

1631 rushing
360 receiving...

so now you say Witten is washed up, but same Dak lovers like you say he doesn't have witten any more...witten had 69 catches in 2016. the offense didn't go through witten and Dez any more with Zeke on the team.

the 2007 team didn't have more talent. not on the OL, not at RB. however it was more skilled at QB

LOL now you’re including his receiving yards? You were talking about his rushing yards don’t try to add crap.

2007 Witten and TO in their prime is better than any current cowboys offensive player (both HOFers not sure they have one at skill position right now).

69 catches for how many yards and TDS? Romo is a better passer I never said he wasn’t. Dark is the better runner and they seem to play better when he’s running.

Also 2007 team had a HOFer on defense with some very good players. 2016 defense had none that I can remember.

 

[BoysForLife]

2007 Witten and TO in their prime is better than any current cowboys offensive player (both HOFers not sure they have one at skill position right now).
.

Can we stop this mis representation please?

I'm not saying TO wasn't good. He is a HOF receiver and deservedly so.
But he was 34 years old in 2007.

34 years old is absolutely NOT "in your prime" for a professional athlete. TO was still darn good but he was not 'in his prime'.

For pete's sake, Dez turns 30 in a few days and people said he needed to go because he was washed up and over the hill.

 

[G2]

Please do. Here's what you'll find:

TO, at 34 years old in 2007, had his 2nd best season of his entire career. Ended up only 96 yards short of his all time best single season yardage total. Had the 2nd most # of TD's in a single season for his whole career. Had his highest yards per catch average of his entire career.

34 is over the hill for an NFL receiver. That's on the downside of your career for a receiver.
And he had the 2nd best year of his storied career.

I'll wait for your next reason this comparison is skewed in Romo's favor.

Why must every Romo-rooter read what they want to read? Where did you read that it's skewed in Romo's favor, because I didn't post it.
And I'm not arguing your post in regard to actually comparing apples to apples, well done! That's exactly the kind of information that I would subscribe to.
But propping Romo up like some of you guys are when he had a lot of great talent to work with is weird.
Owens is a legit HOF who was one of the greatest WRs after the catch to boot.

Also, considering all of his receiving statistics, not just 2 he had his best years of production in San Fran.