How many bad contracts do we have left?

[SinceDayOne]

You would think that when it comes to contract extensions the team would hold an advantage. First the player get a nice raise immediately. Second some of money will be guaranteed and that eliminates the possible of getting nothing in the event of a serious injury. The player gets to remains with teammates and probably coaches that he knows and that know him. And finally the player does not have to relocate to a new city. So, why over the past few years have the Cowboys been hung with so many bad extension contracts??? Why? Could it be bad management you think? Could it be??? Just asking.

 

[CowboyRoy]

It's a disadvantage to wait 4 years whether there's a 5th year option or not. You won't have that 4th year to dump signing bonus money on. Remember, even if they sign after 3 years, they still have to play out the rest of that rookie deal for rookie money.

This is not usually something you do with players that you have doubts about. How many players on the Cowboys did they know for sure they were signing to a second contract? If Diggs has a good year, he would be one of them.



Lamar is past due. He's in the same draft class as Josh Allen. Every one of these star quarterbacks were signed after their 3rd year. Allen, Mahomes, Wilson, Watson, even Wentz and Goff. You know who wasn't? Sam Darnold, Mayfield, Rosen, Daniel Jones, and Lamar Jackson. Right now he's in the same situation Jameis Winston found himself with the Bucs. Looking at playing through his 5th year option, and out the door. Well, I don't know if he's out the door yet, but the Ravens have to have serious doubts at this point.

The QB up right now is Kyler Murray. And he's pushing for an extension or to be traded to a team willing to give him one.

There is another one............Murray.

Dak will be 7th highest once those two are signed. Right where he should be and it only took two years. And his salary hasnt even been over 25 million on the books yet.

Another argument lost by the Dak trolls in a long line of them.

 

[Jarntt]

Zeke is the only one I would call a bad contract and he becomes cuttable after this year. I wouldn't call Dak's contract bad, but when you pay a guy $40M per it's always going to be in the discussion. If they keep restructuring it, which they will, the dead money is going to crush us or force us to extend him even if we otherwise would not have so it will at some point likely become bad no matter how well he is playing. There are other contracts I'd like to have a do over on like Brown and the Schultz tag, but because the total $'s aren't that high, I wouldn't put them in the category of horrible contracts, just poor value.

 

[Flamma]

There is another one............Murray.

Dak will be 7th highest once those two are signed. Right where he should be and it only took two years. And his salary hasnt even been over 25 million on the books yet.

Another argument lost by the Dak trolls in a long line of them.

Murray is totally different. He and his agent are actively seeking an extension right now.

You're right about Dak, his cap hits haven't been prohibitive yet. That works equally against both sides. Dak haters can't use his contract against him in the short term. But Dak jock strap sniffers have no excuse either. But it's never all on the QB.

 

[CowboyRoy]

The problem with that principal is that the O-Line is a unit and only performs to the abilities of the weak link. The NFL will find you out...come on down Williams and Biadasz. Maybe Ranked no.1, but was one of the main contributory factors in our struggles later on in the season and play-off exit.

Jerry's model is to start small and restructure to the hilt, just like remortgaging, the debt has to be paid in the end.

The way to judge Jerry's view on spending is....he was willing to give money to splash the cash on Gregory, but didnt think the position, or the ability to pass rusher was worth the money to pivot to: Smith, Jones, Miller or Wagner.

It was more than just Williams and a young Biadasz. Collins was terrible and a penalty machine when he got in there. Smith got hurt again. It was 4 substandard lineman for most of the year.

When Smith was healthy his rating and that of Martin made the line look better than it was on the PFF rankings. And all the penalties. Penalties killed drive after drive after drive.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Zeke is the only one I would call a bad contract and he becomes cuttable after this year. I wouldn't call Dak's contract bad, but when you pay a guy $40M per it's always going to be in the discussion. If they keep restructuring it, which they will, the dead money is going to crush us or force us to extend him even if we otherwise would not have so it will at some point likely become bad no matter how well he is playing. There are other contracts I'd like to have a do over on like Brown and the Schultz tag, but because the total $'s aren't that high, I wouldn't put them in the category of horrible contracts, just poor value.

Still not understanding the Shultz tag issues. They used it well. On a position with a low top 5 average. He likely gets signed for more then that in FA. So we kept him off the market, saved some money, and best part is that its only a one year deal. And we can negotiate with him and try to save more money.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Murray is totally different. He and his agent are actively seeking an extension right now.

You're right about Dak, his cap hits haven't been prohibitive yet. That works equally against both sides. Dak haters can't use his contract against him in the short term. But Dak jock strap sniffers have no excuse either. But it's never all on the QB.

Dak is simple analysis. If you understand football, offense, and QB play then you are happy to have Dak. Just like you would be happy to have Romo. Especially considering one guy was a undrafted FA and the other a 4th round pick. Wishing you had Mahomes isnt a legitimate argument to not like a QB.

We all saw what happened to Mahomes when he had a few lineman out. Couldnt even score a TD in the SB.

Stafford is another prime example. Very good QB, but his teams cant even win a playoff game in 11 years. Drop him on the Rams with a great team around him, great coaching, a great defense and he wins the SB in the first year.

Any of the top 10 QB's in the NFL are more than capable of winning a SB its just a matter of having a SB caliber team around them, coaching, and some fortune with injuries.

Hell the Cincy kicker was the MVP of the playoffs and won multiple games for them in the playoffs.

 

[CowboyoWales]

It was more than just Williams and a young Biadasz. Collins was terrible and a penalty machine when he got in there. Smith got hurt again. It was 4 substandard lineman for most of the year.

When Smith was healthy his rating and that of Martin made the line look better than it was on the PFF rankings. And all the penalties. Penalties killed drive after drive after drive.

Royston hold onto that horse....the comment was made in response to the point that the O-line was ranked no.1 which is misleading.

If your O-Line is conceding penalties (Connor and Biadasz were the two biggest culprits), then they are being dominated....on the principal that you'd only hold as a last resort to not getting beaten.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Royston hold onto that horse....the comment was made in response to the point that the O-line was ranked no.1 which is misleading.

If your O-Line is conceding penalties (Connor and Biadasz were the two biggest culprits), then they are being dominated....on the principal that you'd only hold as a last resort to not getting beaten.

Collins was equally as bad he just played in half the games.

And yah, most of the line was being dominated in the 2nd half of the year.

 

[CowboyoWales]

Dak is simple analysis. If you understand football, offense, and QB play then you are happy to have Dak. Just like you would be happy to have Romo. Especially considering one guy was a undrafted FA and the other a 4th round pick. Wishing you had Mahomes isnt a legitimate argument to not like a QB.

We all saw what happened to Mahomes when he had a few lineman out. Couldnt even score a TD in the SB.

Royston, park the Dak was drafted in the 4th Round horse. Dak and his contract are now judged on how he plays in respect of the value. In 2021 it was disappointing, but still not considered 'bad'. In 2023-2024 he'll be held to account for $49m , $52m and the $21.8m we'll be paying him in 2025 over and above anything we may choose to pay him to play for us.

The criteria by which the contract will be judged will be how he ,an individual, plays. If he's getting a fifth of the CAP, we'll expect so much more.

 

[Flamma]

Dak is simple analysis. If you understand football, offense, and QB play then you are happy to have Dak. Just like you would be happy to have Romo. Especially considering one guy was a undrafted FA and the other a 4th round pick. Wishing you had Mahomes isnt a legitimate argument to not like a QB.

We all saw what happened to Mahomes when he had a few lineman out. Couldnt even score a TD in the SB.

Stafford is another prime example. Very good QB, but his teams cant even win a playoff game in 11 years. Drop him on the Rams with a great team around him, great coaching, a great defense and he wins the SB in the first year.

Any of the top 10 QB's in the NFL are more than capable of winning a SB its just a matter of having a SB caliber team around them, coaching, and some fortune with injuries.

Hell the Cincy kicker was the MVP of the playoffs and won multiple games for them in the playoffs.

You misunderstand me. I don't dislike Dak. I don't care about what other teams do, just what the Cowboys do. Our standard operating procedure is not conducive for a player of Dak's talents to win a championship. It doesn't matter if Dak is being paid 5 bucks and a box of chocolate chip cookies a year. Maybe if he was on a team like the Rams, he'd have better success. I'm just against keeping Dak long term period, based on the Cowboys SOP. The Packers can get away with it and still make themselves a contender every year for obvious reasons. We can't.

 

[jnday]

How many qbs have winning records against winning teams? Show me the list.

But agreed no qb is worth what they are paid. But I won’t argue with a guy that still hasn’t figured out it’s a team game.

Some QBs are able to make their teammates step up in big games. they make the players around them better. Dallas doesn’t have that type of QB. You Dak lovers are quick to spout off about Dak’s record when they win, but it is the team’s fault when they lose. You can’t have it both ways. I can’t recall Dak ever stepping up during a big game. He shrinks in the moment.

 

[CowboyoWales]

Collins was equally as bad he just played in half the games.

And yah, most of the line was being dominated in the 2nd half of the year.

The scoreboard indicates that we were better with Steele at RT rather than Collins....whether there's a causal link is slightly questionable as the majority of the issues appeared on the left hand side. Either way the argument holds that one weakness can bring down the whole unit. You can mask the issues to a point, if you have player such as Martin, unfortunately, more than one weakness is too much even for him.

I would question the rating that was quoted that we had the best O-Line PFF....I'd question the actual methodology where he/she just calculated the top players at each position without as you say taking into account actual playing time and replacement level.

 

[CowboyoWales]

You misunderstand me. I don't dislike Dak. I don't care about what other teams do, just what the Cowboys do. Our standard operating procedure is not conducive for a player of Dak's talents to win a championship. It doesn't matter if Dak is being paid 5 bucks and a box of chocolate chip cookies a year. Maybe if he was on a team like the Rams, he'd have better success. I'm just against keeping Dak long term period, based on the Cowboys SOP. The Packers can get away with it and still make themselves a contender every year for obvious reasons. We can't.

As we know @CowboyRoy doesnt quite get the middle ground and the value to the team. As regards to the Rams, if Dak wanted to play for them, he'd need to be taking a cut in wages (not the forthcoming increases). I suppose it's all about bang for your buck.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Royston, park the Dak was drafted in the 4th Round horse. Dak and his contract are now judged on how he plays in respect of the value. In 2021 it was disappointing, but still not considered 'bad'. In 2023-2024 he'll be held to account for $49m , $52m and the $21.8m we'll be paying him in 2025 over and above anything we may choose to pay him to play for us.

The criteria by which the contract will be judged will be how he ,an individual, plays. If he's getting a fifth of the CAP, we'll expect so much more.

Dak had a good season. Was off the chain and an MVP candidate until the Oline went south. QB's are beholden to protection and many factors around them. The offense went from all world to inconsistent as soon as the line went south. Until we fix the line, that wont change.

If you really think Dak will ever cost us 49 million, you aren't paying attention.

 

[CowboyRoy]

You misunderstand me. I don't dislike Dak. I don't care about what other teams do, just what the Cowboys do. Our standard operating procedure is not conducive for a player of Dak's talents to win a championship. It doesn't matter if Dak is being paid 5 bucks and a box of chocolate chip cookies a year. Maybe if he was on a team like the Rams, he'd have better success. I'm just against keeping Dak long term period, based on the Cowboys SOP. The Packers can get away with it and still make themselves a contender every year for obvious reasons. We can't.

Ah..........packers still cant win diddly. In 12 years Rogers has won one. Its all about getting a SB caliber team and THEN dropping in the QB. Like the Rams just did. Like Seattle did.

But your not going to throw away a top 10 QB. That is ridiculous. You could go 10 years without finding another. Longer. Cowboys are now building a defense. They need to fix the line.

But yah, I agree Jerry will never be good enough to get a SB caliber team around his QB. And he has gotten lucky with the QB thing the last 16 years with Romo and Dak.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Some QBs are able to make their teammates step up in big games. they make the players around them better. Dallas doesn’t have that type of QB. You Dak lovers are quick to spout off about Dak’s record when they win, but it is the team’s fault when they lose. You can’t have it both ways. I can’t recall Dak ever stepping up during a big game. He shrinks in the moment.

Im very confident you dont understand the QB position. These arguments with you are a waste of time. Im perfectly fine with you and your unhappy little band of QB haters not getting it.

 

[CowboyRoy]

The scoreboard indicates that we were better with Steele at RT rather than Collins....whether there's a causal link is slightly questionable as the majority of the issues appeared on the left hand side. Either way the argument holds that one weakness can bring down the whole unit. You can mask the issues to a point, if you have player such as Martin, unfortunately, more than one weakness is too much even for him.

I would question the rating that was quoted that we had the best O-Line PFF....I'd question the actual methodology where he/she just calculated the top players at each position without as you say taking into account actual playing time and replacement level.

Three things happened that killed the line:

-Collins came back and went in for Steele
-Mcgovern replaced Williams (actually got worse, sadly)
-Tyron Smith went down

From the MOMENT that happened, an unstoppable offense went in the toilet. You can also point to things like Cooper out with Covid two weeks and Gallup going down.

 

[kskboys]

You would think that when it comes to contract extensions the team would hold an advantage. First the player get a nice raise immediately. Second some of money will be guaranteed and that eliminates the possible of getting nothing in the event of a serious injury. The player gets to remains with teammates and probably coaches that he knows and that know him. And finally the player does not have to relocate to a new city. So, why over the past few years have the Cowboys been hung with so many bad extension contracts??? Why? Could it be bad management you think? Could it be??? Just asking.

Overpaying is still overpaying. The production must at least come close to matching the play.

 

[Flamma]

Ah..........packers still cant win diddly. In 12 years Rogers has won one. Its all about getting a SB caliber team and THEN dropping in the QB. Like the Rams just did. Like Seattle did.

But your not going to throw away a top 10 QB. That is ridiculous. You could go 10 years without finding another. Longer. Cowboys are now building a defense. They need to fix the line.

But yah, I agree Jerry will never be good enough to get a SB caliber team around his QB. And he has gotten lucky with the QB thing the last 16 years with Romo and Dak.

I'm throwing the top 10 QB away because the results are the same. Top 10 doesn't mean anything when there is a huge drop from #8 and everyone else. What does top 10 mean then? That you have the freshest leftover? I'm not the owner of the team. I'm not satisfied with being okay to good and never winning a championship because of the money. I'm a fan. I'd rather go 2-14 than 8-8. I don't care how long it can take. I want to win 100%.

There was a question that I saw a long time ago, I forget the context it was so long ago. You have 100 people. Do you go over bridge A where at least half of your people will die? But half will survive. Or do you choose bridge B where there is a 50/50% chance all of you live, or all of you die. I choose bridge B, Dak supporters choose Bridge A.