NBA 2016 Offseason: Draft, Trades & Free Agency

jterrell

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In all of this free agency activity, I've noticed there's one team who's name is noticeably absent.........and wonder why.

I keep hearing about how intelligent Mark Cuban is. He appears to be very much like Jerry in relishing his active involvement and outspoken role with the team he owns. I wonder if he's created a "brand" or environment that players don't particularly like.

Its been my experience that when intelligent people don't get the outcomes they want, they change their approach to solving the problem. I'll be curious to see if Cuban tones down his schtick.

What team? San Antonio? CLE?

Cuban's way keep winning, making money and making the playoffs.
Not sure exactly why he'd want to change it.

Sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make.

Dallas was very smart to let Parsons go. Not enough work ethic and now very real injury concerns. Anyone paying him max is beyond stupid.

Does any guy stop trying to shoot for 10s and settle for 2s even though they get turned down?
It only takes 1....
 

jterrell

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At 10 million per

Huh?
Iggy was 12m per and a monster deal at the time. (peanuts now because cap keeps going up like crazy)
GSW obviously has the home-drafted non-elite draftees Klay, Green and Curry carrying them but GSW spent for Iggy so someone would play defense and be a glue guy.

Everyone agrees if you can get Curry at 7, Klay at 11 and Green at 35 you deserve to win a crap ton.
But no one winning many playoff games are sitting on dry powder. They are spending big.
 

darthseinfeld

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Huh?
Iggy was 12m per and a monster deal at the time. (peanuts now because cap keeps going up like crazy)
GSW obviously has the home-drafted non-elite draftees Klay, Green and Curry carrying them but GSW spent for Iggy so someone would play defense and be a glue guy.

Everyone agrees if you can get Curry at 7, Klay at 11 and Green at 35 you deserve to win a crap ton.
But no one winning many playoff games are sitting on dry powder. They are spending big.

They are spending big, but they are spending it in home grown talent
 

jterrell

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They are spending big, but they are spending it in home grown talent

Kinda.
Again they chased big name free agents like Dwight Howard and now KD and did sign Iggy to a near max deal.
They don't have 10 home grown guys they are rolling with by any means.

They simply drafted insanely well. But those pieces aren't enough so they've added a lot of guys to the mix via free agency.
They haven't drafted 8 really good players, they drafted 3 great ones.
The roster includes Bogut via trade, Barbosa via FA, Shaun Livingston via FA, et al.

Hitting on an MVP at 7 and an ALL-NBA caliber player in round 2 is what has set them apart really.
But the rest of that team has been added just like everywhere else really with a mix of FA and trade and low cost draftees who don;t play much if at all.
 

Silver Surfer

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What team? San Antonio? CLE?

Cuban's way keep winning, making money and making the playoffs.
Not sure exactly why he'd want to change it.

Sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make.

Dallas was very smart to let Parsons go. Not enough work ethic and now very real injury concerns. Anyone paying him max is beyond stupid.

Does any guy stop trying to shoot for 10s and settle for 2s even though they get turned down?
It only takes 1....

Dallas doesn't belong in the same sentence as those two clubs. Over the past two years, the Spurs and Cavaliers had a real chance to win a championship. The only people who believed Dallas had a chance in the last five were its fans and its management.... and I'm not so sure about its management.

I thought Cuban was trying to win championships rather than just making money. He tried to get cute after the team won it all and it blew up on him. There's no guarantee they would have even made the playoffs the next year, but I think he, just like Jerry, underestimates the value of continuity... especially after a very successful season.

I completely agree on Parsons, along with Howard and Deron Williams for that matter. I don't think these guys bring you championships as primary forces. They're complementary pieces; but they think of themselves as more than they really are.

Regarding shooting for 10's, Cuban looks like the guy who asks the hottest girl in school to the prom every year and gets turned down. Meanwhile, all the other pretty ones get dates.

Mark eventually shows up at the dance with a fat chick.
 
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darthseinfeld

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Kinda.
Again they chased big name free agents like Dwight Howard and now KD and did sign Iggy to a near max deal.
They don't have 10 home grown guys they are rolling with by any means.

They simply drafted insanely well. But those pieces aren't enough so they've added a lot of guys to the mix via free agency.
They haven't drafted 8 really good players, they drafted 3 great ones.
The roster includes Bogut via trade, Barbosa via FA, Shaun Livingston via FA, et al.

Hitting on an MVP at 7 and an ALL-NBA caliber player in round 2 is what has set them apart really.
But the rest of that team has been added just like everywhere else really with a mix of FA and trade and low cost draftees who don;t play much if at all.

But compared to say the 2008 Celtics, the 2010 Heat and a few other teams that failed, their building stratagy wasnt going out and buying a super team

A championship caliber team of pure home grown talent in todays NBA is almost ( if not totally) unrealistic.

As far as the Celtics are concerned, it may be best for them to take a long approach to building a true contender. Especially of you believe in Brad Stevens
 

jterrell

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Dallas doesn't belong in the same sentence as those two clubs. Over the past two years, the Spurs and Cavaliers had a real chance to win a championship. The only people who believed Dallas had a chance in the last five were its fans and its management.... and I'm not so sure about its management.

I thought Cuban was trying to win championships rather than just making money. He tried to get cute after the team won it all and it blew up on him. There's no guarantee they would have even made the playoffs the next year, but I think he, just like Jerry, underestimates the value of continuity... especially after a very successful season.

I completely agree on Parsons, along with Howard and Deron Williams for that matter. I don't think these guys bring you championships as primary forces. They're complementary pieces; but they think of themselves as more than they really are.

Regarding shooting for 10's, Cuban looks like the guy who asks the hottest girl in school to the prom every year and gets turned down. Meanwhile, all the other pretty ones get dates.

Mark eventually shows up at the dance with a fat chick.

Actually it did according to your free agency post at the time... Now those two sit well behind Dallas in free agency this cycle.

Mark keeps making money and making the playoffs. He's better off then 75% of the league.
And quietly as it is kept he's adjusted his philosophy quite a bit.
The targets he's been after have been mostly good financial deals or for younger guys.
Of course he's going to swing for the fences but getting in players like Monte Ellis and Deron Williams is a hell of a lot better than team forever tank.
Dallas can add a former lottery pick (and do) every year. Much better business model than taking 3-5% chances on landing one so good you can win before they even hit free agency.

San Antonio is actually the team who should be weeping.
They finally spent big in free agency but are falling further and further behind the best teams in the league and the onyl good young player they have is going to forever make 10s of millions.
Hardly following Timmy to the self-sacrifice line.

Did I want Dallas to get Conley? Sure,. He represented the right kind of target at 28 years old and effective at a position of great value.
But 30m a year x 5 for a guy who's not elite? Heck no.
Is Memphis now elite? NO!!
But they sure are paying like they are.

Dallas won over half their games and likely returns all key roster personel minus Parsons who was injured much of the year anyway.
If they add Harrison Barnes they add a 24 year old with tremendous upside that everyone in basketball wanted before he was awful in the finals.
And they'd have him locked down into his prime.

Basically anyone bashing Mark is either basketball ignorant or not paying attention. Unfortunately that holds for a large number of Mavs fans.
Apparently they all joined the fanbase after the 90s run of suckitude or they damn sure wouldn't be calling for tank jobs.

Would I rather be mentioned and get meetings with top free agents and miss out then not even get said meetings? Of course.

Life is zero fun as a have not. It's even worse than being mediocre.
Dallas was a pretty fun watch with Monte Ellis and outside one season of tragic ball they've been pretty damn good for 15 years.
 

jterrell

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But compared to say the 2008 Celtics, the 2010 Heat and a few other teams that failed, their building stratagy wasnt going out and buying a super team

A championship caliber team of pure home grown talent in todays NBA is almost ( if not totally) unrealistic.

As far as the Celtics are concerned, it may be best for them to take a long approach to building a true contender. Especially of you believe in Brad Stevens

you mean until KD right?
 

jterrell

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Dallas doesn't belong in the same sentence as those two clubs. Over the past two years, the Spurs and Cavaliers had a real chance to win a championship. The only people who believed Dallas had a chance in the last five were its fans and its management.... and I'm not so sure about its management.

I thought Cuban was trying to win championships rather than just making money. He tried to get cute after the team won it all and it blew up on him. There's no guarantee they would have even made the playoffs the next year, but I think he, just like Jerry, underestimates the value of continuity... especially after a very successful season.

I completely agree on Parsons, along with Howard and Deron Williams for that matter. I don't think these guys bring you championships as primary forces. They're complementary pieces; but they think of themselves as more than they really are.

Regarding shooting for 10's, Cuban looks like the guy who asks the hottest girl in school to the prom every year and gets turned down. Meanwhile, all the other pretty ones get dates.

Mark eventually shows up at the dance with a fat chick.

And no Mark didn't try to get cute post 2011.
He made an astute business decision.
Those guys on that title team were mediocre bit players who were universally overpaid.
How many of the teams who signed those guys were happy with those contracts?
Basically zero.
But he should have locked them all down another 3-5 years and just luxury taxes and sat out free agency for them?
ROFL.

Again, the problem with groupthink is that the group is usually just stupid.

Was Dallas going to win another title? No.
Only way to do so would have been a super team or get the magic bean of luck that is an insanely good draft choice fall to them at bottom of round 1 or below.
Odds were near zero. Mark took his shot with the biggest and brightest free agents and kept the Mavs in the news and in the playoffs.
Not badly done at all.
 

Silver Surfer

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Actually it did according to your free agency post at the time... Now those two sit well behind Dallas in free agency this cycle.

Since you brought Cleveland into the discussion, I assumed you were talking Lebron part II, because they had no chance of winning
anything until he came back. So what time period are you including them in?

And no Mark didn't try to get cute post 2011. He made an astute business decision.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/sports/Cuban-Admits-to-Chandler-Mistake-Well-Sorta-277452441.html

Again, the problem with groupthink is that the group is usually just stupid.

How about we skip the strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks...

Was Dallas going to win another title? No. Odds were near zero. Not badly done at all.

So he's been BS'ing Dirk and getting him to take below market contracts all this time?
 

Silver Surfer

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Stein via ESPN - "The Warriors and Mavericks are in the advanced stages of a trade that will send Andrew Bogut into Dallas' cap space, league sources say." .... maybe they're trading Dirk. :D
 
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jterrell

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Stein via ESPN - "The Warriors and Mavericks are in the advanced stages of a trade that will send Andrew Bogut into Dallas' cap space, league sources say." .... maybe they're trading Dirk. :D

Or perhaps they are going to add Bogut and Barnes to Dirk, Wes, Deron as a pretty good starting 5 and playoff team AGAIN.

And.. wait for it... HAVE MAX CAP SPACE AGAIN NEXT YEAR TOO.
Dirk won't sign til Mavs exceed the cap... because Mark and Mavs front office understand how to handle business.

Other than players lying to them or backing out of deals they've done what they should 99% of the time.
Tyson Chandler is probably the lone caveat but he's been too injured to pay him 4 or 5 year deals and he ignored a huge 1 year offer
because he doesn't trust his own health. Tyson has been on team in lottery every non-Mavs year since he left AFAIK.
 

jterrell

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Stein via ESPN - "The Warriors and Mavericks are in the advanced stages of a trade that will send Andrew Bogut into Dallas' cap space, league sources say." .... maybe they're trading Dirk. :D

Dirk is the asst GM basically. All moves he approves.
Cuban gave him that power as part of his pay cuts.
He will spend his 20 years with one team, have a hall of fame career and go down as a top 5 scorer of all-time.
No one has to cry for Dirk or feel he has been cheated.
But it's fine if they do, just makes the guy even more likable than he already is.

Dirk and Tim Duncan personify all that is good about the NBA. Very few others do. I am very glad Dirk is not seriously contemplating retiring the way Duncan is.
SA fans really should be worried more about that than other teams at the moment. Especially since Pop has said they are a tandem deal.
 

jterrell

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Mavs are getting Bogut for a conditional 2nd rounder....

PG: DWill, JJB, Devin Harris
SG: Wes, Devin
SF: Barnes, Jus A; Jeremy Evans
PF: Dirk, Barnes
C: Bogut, Mejri

How final math works will determine if they can keep any of the cap hold guys and either retain them or trade them off for ballast.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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Or perhaps they are going to add Bogut and Barnes to Dirk, Wes, Deron as a pretty good starting 5 and playoff team AGAIN.

And.. wait for it... HAVE MAX CAP SPACE AGAIN NEXT YEAR TOO.
Dirk won't sign til Mavs exceed the cap... because Mark and Mavs front office understand how to handle business.

Other than players lying to them or backing out of deals they've done what they should 99% of the time.
Tyson Chandler is probably the lone caveat but he's been too injured to pay him 4 or 5 year deals and he ignored a huge 1 year offer
because he doesn't trust his own health. Tyson has been on team in lottery every non-Mavs year since he left AFAIK.

I believe even Cuban has acknowledged not resigning Chandler was a mistake he would change if he could revisit it. Cuban made a business decision to save up cap space to make a run at impending elite free agents. Unfortunately, the one variable he didn't account for was the fact these free agents simply didn't want to sign with the Mavs for one reason or the other.

This Barnes signing reeks of desperation and I don't think Mavs fans will feel they've gotten great value out of Barnes when all is said and done. Though, to Barnes credit, he's an outstanding individual off the court.
 

jterrell

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I believe even Cuban has acknowledged not resigning Chandler was a mistake he would change if he could revisit it. Cuban made a business decision to save up cap space to make a run at impending elite free agents. Unfortunately, the one variable he didn't account for was the fact these free agents simply didn't want to sign with the Mavs for one reason or the other.

This Barnes signing reeks of desperation and I don't think Mavs fans will feel they've gotten great value out of Barnes when all is said and done. Though, to Barnes credit, he's an outstanding individual off the court.

Mark has been apologetic about losing Chandler but he's also been somewhat short of saying he'd have matched the Knicks deal.
He got him back then let him walk again.
Chandler got wayyy too much credit for that title run and he's been on nothing but bad teams outside his Mavs stretches this past 7-8 years.
But beyond Tyson no one else on that team was even arguably worth keeping.
They left for ridiculously overpaid deals and mostly did zero away from the system.
But the biggest thing is the Mavs never had top 3 talent.
They won it with FAR less talent than Miami and arguably a couple other cities.
Mark offered everyone large 1 year deals to give it another shot but guys wanted ot cash in on the trophy with long term deals.
Same as Mark asked Parsons to opt in one more year at 16m.
Once guys decline he smartly moved on. Mark is fair but he isn't stupid.

Barnes' value will be determined by how he plays with the ball in his hands. That wasn't going to happen in GS.
But I promise you GS will miss Barnes and his athleticism as that very skilled team ages and needs more athletic defensive options.

Dallas was one of the oldest and most unathletic teams in basketball not long ago and they've taken to addressing that. Barnes definitely does so.
It was far from desperation. Dallas could have locked up Parsons had they wanted to but his knee and lifestyle are very real concerns.
This kid is 24. Curry didn't top 19 points or 6 assist per game until he turned 24. Is Barnes likely to be Curry? Of course not but you don't generally see these kids play well until they are mid 20s.
Kobe was in his 4th NBA season when he first topped 20 PPG. Barnes has had 4 thus far.
As he becomes a 2nd or 3rd option on the floor expect him to blossom.
 
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