Question for those that wanted Parcells gone

[dbair1967]

Oh, he's more than capable.

What he isn't capable of, is building and improving a team or beating division opponents.

he might be with more talent...didnt exactly coach very good teams in Washington or Oakland

and contrary to popular takes here, Norv wasnt 3-13 or 4-12 every yr in Washington

David

 

[Juke99]

Oh, he's more than capable.

What he isn't capable of, is building and improving a team or beating division opponents.

Honestly...you don't know what he is capable of...until he proves it.

Each situation is different for each coach.

Example: NY LOST it's collective mind when Steinbrenner hired Joe Torre...rightfully so. His track record STUNK.

Joe Torre is now a first ballot HOF manager.

I'm not saying, by any stretch, that I'm thrilled with Norv Turner.

But if he is hired, I'll wait to pass judgment.

 

[superpunk]

Honestly...you don't know what he is capable of...until he proves it.

Each situation is different for each coach.

Example: NY LOST it's collective mind when Steinbrenner hired Joe Torre...rightfully so. His track record STUNK.

Joe Torre is now a first ballot HOF manager.

I'm not saying, by any stretch, that I'm thrilled with Norv Turner.

But if he is hired, I'll wait to pass judgment.

You can paint a pretty good picture from 9 years of coaching experience - and I can say now, before he is hired, that if this is what we were planning for should Parcells retire, that a new plan is needed.

I'm not a huge fan of moving backwards. That's what Norv's track record is, and that's what he represents. I can handle anyone else (within reason). Hiring Norv is begging to fail. There is no way to rationalize the hire except "Maybe he'll be better here, where he doesn't have to draft Heath Shuler and Michael Westbrook, and he can just coach!"

I'm giddy.

 

[philo beddoe]

Norv Turner would be a disaster.

 

[superpunk]

he might be with more talent...didnt exactly coach very good teams in Washington or Oakland

and contrary to popular takes here, Norv wasnt 3-13 or 4-12 every yr in Washington

David

He didn't make bad teams better, and he didn't make teams with decent talent that great either. There's no track record of great Norval coaching moves. he doesn't have an eye for talent, and he isn't a good gameday coach. There is positively zero upside. No sane person can possibly say "Yes! This is what I was waiting for! Thank goodness Parcells stepped aside!"

If they can, they're just deluding themselves, and comforting themselves with the fact that a jersey-guy is no longer coaching our favorite team. I can't wait to hear Norv's stories about how Michael Westbrook destroyed Stephen Davis and he handled that situation with precise discipline. Oh wait.....

Instead of a Jersey guy, we're looking at a Washington guy. And one that was a failure, no less.

 

[Clove]

I'm just happy for a change.

Didn't care for him, if he had stayed, as long as he changed some game day stuff, I wouldn't have mind. But he came in 1st year, had his opportunity to tear the "D" down and build a 3-4 but he waited until year 3 to do it.

Bottom line, he was in a hurry to win, and consequently, he got burned out.

 

[Juke99]

You can paint a pretty good picture from 9 years of coaching experience - and I can say now, before he is hired, that if this is what we were planning for should Parcells retire, that a new plan is needed.

I'm not a huge fan of moving backwards. That's what Norv's track record is, and that's what he represents. I can handle anyone else (within reason). Hiring Norv is begging to fail. There is no way to rationalize the hire except "Maybe he'll be better here, where he doesn't have to draft Heath Shuler and Michael Westbrook, and he can just coach!"

I'm giddy.

Benefit of the doubt, beyond any measure he deserved, was given to Parcells because of his past performance.

Now, the same thinking is being applied to Norv Turner because of his past performance.

So I will compliment your consistency.

 

[superpunk]

I'm just happy for a change.

Didn't care for him, if he had stayed, as long as he changed some game day stuff, I wouldn't have mind. But he came in 1st year, had his opportunity to tear the "D" down and build a 3-4 but he waited until year 3 to do it.

Bottom line, he was in a hurry to win, and consequently, he got burned out.

That si a pretty good summary. Waiting to rebuild that defense was the worst thing for us. He held himself back, honestly, by doing such a fantastic job in 2003. But at least now we have a direction for the team. I can't bear to see Jerry ruin that now.

 

[superpunk]

Benefit of the doubt, beyond any measure he deserved, was given to Parcells because of his past performance.

Now, the same thinking is being applied to Norv Turner because of his past performance.

So I will compliment your consistency.

Parcells improved our team, whether it's believed or not. He did what he's done elsewhere, even if it didn't get reflected in the final record. We're set up pretty nice for the future. I got most of what I expected out of Parcells.

I just fear that I'll get most of what I expect from Norv, too.

 

[Juke99]

Parcells improved our team, whether it's believed or not. He did what he's done elsewhere, even if it didn't get reflected in the final record. We're set up pretty nice for the future. I got most of what I expected out of Parcells.

I just fear that I'll get most of what I expect from Norv, too.

Well then you're an "underexpector"

You're telling me that when Parcells was signed, you expected a .500 record, no playoff wins, no first place finishes, December collapses every time the team was in contention, and all of this in four years?

Uh...someone's credibility just took a hit.

 

[Clove]

That si a pretty good summary. Waiting to rebuild that defense was the worst thing for us. He held himself back, honestly, by doing such a fantastic job in 2003. But at least now we have a direction for the team. I can't bear to see Jerry ruin that now.

We all need to cross our fingers and hope that Jones has changed his ways. It really doesn't appear that way at the moment, but I'll wait to see how everything unfolds before I bring down the wrath on Jones.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Well then you're an "underexpector"

You're telling me that when Parcells was signed, you expected a .500 record, no playoff wins, no first place finishes, December collapses every time the team was in contention, and all of this in four years?

Uh...someone's credibility just took a hit.

how is ripping a mildly successful coach, validating Norval's failure everywhere he's coached? but hey, if he doesn't get your expectations up like Parcells' arrival did then, HOORAY!

 

[superpunk]

Well then you're an "underexpector"

You're telling me that when Parcells was signed, you expected a .500 record, no playoff wins, no first place finishes, December collapses every time the team was in contention, and all of this in four years?

Uh...someone's credibility just took a hit.

I expected you to be able to read. Color me "underexpected."

I expected him to build a team, draft young talent, give direction, discipline to a team devoid of talent, direction, or discipline. I expected more out of the final record, which is why I said as much in my last post, but you glossed over that. But I got "MOST of what I expected out of Parcells." (caps and quotes used so it doesn't get missed this time.)

 

[Bob Sacamano]

"anyone but Parcells!!"

"Remember '93!!"

that's the rallying cry for Turner

 

[JPM]

Honestly...you don't know what he is capable of...until he proves it.

Each situation is different for each coach.

Example: NY LOST it's collective mind when Steinbrenner hired Joe Torre...rightfully so. His track record STUNK.

Joe Torre is now a first ballot HOF manager.

I'm not saying, by any stretch, that I'm thrilled with Norv Turner.

But if he is hired, I'll wait to pass judgment.

Torre also benefited from players like Jeter and Rivera, but I watch some of his moves the last couple of years and I scratch my head. I especially love the way he kills his relief pitchers year after year. He is really lucky/blessed Mo has a rubber arm.

 

[Juke99]

I expected you to be able to read. Color me "underexpected."

I expected him to build a team, draft young talent, give direction, discipline to a team devoid of talent, direction, or discipline. I expected more out of the final record, which is why I said as much in my last post, but you glossed over that. But I got "MOST of what I expected out of Parcells." (caps and quotes used so it doesn't get missed this time.)

And I'll repeat myself without the caps...

You're telling me that when Parcells was signed, you expected a .500 record, no playoff wins, no first place finishes, December collapses every time the team was in contention, and all of this in four years?

I prefer italics.



It's a results driven business. What I stated above are the results.

And I am not budging from that perspective.

All this Parcells mumbo jumbo that he stated about "No matter what you've done in the past, sooner or later you have to prove you can still get the job done.." and "You are what your record says you are. There's no sugar coating that"

And meanwhile, those who support him go against the very measures of success he established for all those around him.

Next subject please.

I love Ben and Jerry's Cookie Dough ice cream.

What's your favorite flavor?

 

[Juke99]

Torre also benefited from players like Jeter and Rivera, but I watch some of his moves the last couple of years and I scratch my head. I especially love the way he kills his relief pitchers year after year. He is really lucky/blessed Mo has a rubber arm.

Exactly my point.

Each time period spent with a team is different.

Torre has the circumstances of Jeter and Rivera.

He didn't have that when he coached the Mets.

Hey...don't get me wrong...I am NOT happy about the possibility of Norv Turner being here.

My original statement was that I DON'T root against the team to prove that I'm "right"

That really is the main point of what I'm trying to say here.

 

[Ashwynn]

Are you still glad he retired given who our next HC might be?

Absolutely. Does not matter, Turner, or Phillips is better then old, stubborn, no adjusting Parcells.

Thank god Parcells is gone, now to work on el dorado.

 

[superpunk]

And I'll repeat myself without the caps...

You're telling me that when Parcells was signed, you expected a .500 record, no playoff wins, no first place finishes, December collapses every time the team was in contention, and all of this in four years?

I prefer italics.



It's a results driven business. What I stated above are the results.

And I am not budging from that perspective.

All this Parcells mumbo jumbo that he stated about "No matter what you've done in the past, sooner or later you have to prove you can still get the job done.." and "You are what your record says you are. There's no sugar coating that"

And meanwhile, those who support him go against the very measures of success he established for all those around him.

Next subject please.

I love Ben and Jerry's Cookie Dough ice cream.

What's your favorite flavor?

Ah, the favorite crutch of the anti-Parcells crowd - using blurbs of his own quotes to damn him. When did I say I was satisfied with his record? When did I even imply that? The answer? I never did, so you can drop that ridiculous line of thinking and debating. You're not addressing anything. I wish the record had been better, hence the MOST that appeared prominently in my statement that I got MOST of what I expected out of Parcells. (Hint: MOST = Not all.)

I hope I get none of what I expect out of Norv Turner, should he be hired.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

what does Parcells have to do w/ Norv Turner's complete, and utter ineptitude as a HC?